3 c2c fixed Charge Notices for my flats parking

[ino85]

Hi everybody,

This is my first time on here, other posts look really helpful so I thought I would give it a go

I'll try keep this short as poss

 

I live in a block of flats with underground parking. In July this year I received a £60 FCN on my windscreen

It had basically fallen too far down my windscreen so less than half was showing.

I appealed (1st appeal), lost, then reluctantly paid the discounted fine of £60

Case closed I thought......oh no!

This week I received through the post two seperate FCNs for the week prior to my first offence both stating, as with the original,

The two tickets were only 36 hours apart if that makes any difference, and 7-8 days before my original FCN.

Both failed the initial appeal today.

 

I received no windscreen stickers for these two offences.

 

I will be appealing to the Independent Appeals Service and any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

Edited October 23, 2015 by ino85

[reallymadwoman]

Are these fines from the council/police or from a private parking company? If the latter, read similar threads on the forum and you will soon see that such 'invoices' can generally be challenged, though specific tactics depend upon the company involved.

 

Do you have an allocated parking space, i.e. is your vehicle parked on your own property? If so, you could always counter claim for trespass if they're alleging that they did put notices on your car!

[armadillo71]

Who is the PPC?

[ino85]

Are these fines from the council/police or from a private parking company? If the latter, read similar threads on the forum and you will soon see that such 'invoices' can generally be challenged, though specific tactics depend upon the company involved.

 

Do you have an allocated parking space, i.e. is your vehicle parked on your own property? If so, you could always counter claim for trespass if they're alleging that they did put notices on your car!

 

Thank you for your reply.....They are from a PPC (Capital2Coast Parking Management).

I would love to say I could counter claim but asking around when I first received the original ticket I'm not sure if that is possible as I am not the freeholder, merely a leaseholder. And therefore don't strictly own the parking space.

The landlord (housing association I believe) are the ones who entered into a contract with this company for the management of the carpark. I therefore have to abide by the car park rules.

Edited October 23, 2015 by ino85

[ino85]

Who is the PPC?

 

Thanks for your reply.....the PPC is (Capital2Coast Parking Management).

[dx100uk]

So not fines then where did that word come from??

 

Dx

[ino85]

Sorry.....fixed charge notice.

I paid the original so would class that as a fine

[ericsbrother]

That was your mistake,

they would have given up if you had fought the claim as they know that they are on to a loser ticketing people's own spaces.

 

They are too late to claim for the earlier events but as you paid one they are assuming that the driver is the same person so will try their luck!

 

 

In short, there is no keeper liability for these tardy demands to tell them that you have realised that an administrative error has occurred

that has resulted in them demanding and receiving £60 by misrepresentation under the Fraud Act of 2006

and that you will seek to recover this and also may seek damages for harassment for the further demands.

 

Look, it is YOUR parking space and the contract they have that allows them to ticket isnt signed by you

so they dont have permission to go anywhere near your vehicle.

 

 

They will claim that the management co signed this off and you have agreed to it,

NO YOU HAVENT, you cannot assent to give away your rights by inertia so they have no contract.

 

 

The parking co know this but rely on you not knowing.

It has gained them £60 from you and god knows how much from other residents.

 

 

Dont believe that you have to show a parking permit,

this is just a convenience for them to stop them being sued by every resident who gets humpy over their actions.

[dx100uk]

how did you pay debit card?

 

 

dx

[ino85]

That was your mistake,

they would have given up if you had fought the claim as they know that they are on to a loser ticketing people's own spaces.

 

They are too late to claim for the earlier events but as you paid one they are assuming that the driver is the same person so will try their luck!

 

 

In short, there is no keeper liability for these tardy demands to tell them that you have realised that an administrative error has occurred

that has resulted in them demanding and receiving £60 by misrepresentation under the Fraud Act of 2006

and that you will seek to recover this and also may seek damages for harassment for the further demands.

 

Look, it is YOUR parking space and the contract they have that allows them to ticket isnt signed by you

so they dont have permission to go anywhere near your vehicle.

 

 

They will claim that the management co signed this off and you have agreed to it,

NO YOU HAVENT, you cannot assent to give away your rights by inertia so they have no contract.

 

 

The parking co know this but rely on you not knowing.

It has gained them £60 from you and god knows how much from other residents.

 

 

Dont believe that you have to show a parking permit,

this is just a convenience for them to stop them being sued by every resident who gets humpy over their actions.

 

 

 

Thanks very much for your advise, it sounds very positive and encouraging.

Am I right in thinking that I should compile an email or letter to demand my original £60 back that I paid in August?

even before I lodge my appeal with the IAS? which they state must be submitted within 21 days

I also noticed on the signs dotted around the car park it states by using this car park I have entered into a contract with C2C

[ino85]

how did you pay debit card?

 

 

dx

 

I paid the original FCN in August by credit card

[dx100uk]

I wonder if you could do a section 75 claim?

 

 

dx

[ino85]

I wonder if you could do a section 75 claim?

 

 

dx

 

I like your way of thinking but It is my understanding that the cost must be over £100 for a section 75 claim to be valid

[themagician]

quote "I do have an allocated space and a valid permit that was just out of view at time of offences " you do not commit any offence on private land.

[ino85]

My worry is that the parking space isn't strictly mine as I am a leaseholder. The actual landlord is a housing management company.

So i'm guessing that the parking space is not 'my' private land

What some people are saying is because landlord appointed C2C to manage the carpark, I 'by parking or remaining at this site otherwise in accordance with the rules, me as the driver, are agreeing to the contractual terms' (quote from signs)

Let me state i'm not sure if I ticked the 'driver' box on the appeal form (can't remember sorry)

[reallymadwoman]

If you have leased the space, then it is yours. Can your landlord (or anyone else for that matter!) wander in to your flat whenever they feel like it? The same applies to your parking space.

[ino85]

Thank you for your advice........so would you recommend me to not appeal via the IAS and ignore any future correspondence from Capital2Coast and their solicitors/bailiffs?

[ericsbrother]

Head them off by writing to C2c and tell them in no uncertain terms that they are trespassing when they put a ticket on your car and are misrepresenting themselves when they claim their contract is valid as it isnt in your case.

BTW the management co DOESNT own the flats, the clue is in the name, they are appointed by the landlord but can be booted out by the residents (owners of the leases) it you can get together as a quorum and then pass a motion to do so. Your problem is that most leasholders will be renting out or wouldnt care anyway.

I wouldnt waste the time with the IAS unless you just want a laugh at the reason why they turned down your appeal. It will be wrong and pathetic.

[ino85]

Thanks for the positive information. I am in the process of contacting my housing management company, who hired c2c and demand that these invoices be cancelled and my VRN put on a whitelist. I may appeal to the IAS just to see what they say and it will also give me more time to research other cases similar to mine. I have been told of a very good one on here in which the defendant did exactly what you are suggesting, took them to county court claiming damages for trespass and an injunction to prevent further trespass, and won. There is hope!

[ericsbrother]

Forget your housing management company, they trousered an improper payment when they employed these bandits so they arent going to help you. Dont forget, the contract between C2C and the management co isnt worth a light legally so they will both lie to you and hope you just go away and stop spoiling thweir money making scheme. By all means go to the IAS but you wont win as they wont allow your appeal as it isnt one of their reasons you can cite for appealing. Again, there is self-interest as the solicitors who own the IPC are the IAS and the same solicitors then do the legwork in any court action so they earn all ways round.

A feffoff letter to C2C and a demand that they repay the money gained by misrepresentation is enough, if they are then stupid enough to try and claim more maoney via the courts you should counterclaim but other than that trying to recover £60 alrady paid will prove a great effort for little reward.

If you do use the IAS appeals service then quite the case against UKPC and point out the lack of contract to allow c2c to interfere with your parking space despite the signage in the garage-that is for people who dont own a space and nothing to do with you..

[caro]

Your contract with the HA would trump the parking co every time. You could always challenge them to take you to court and let a judge tell them that they have no right to charge you to park in a space that you already pay for.