Tax Credit cuts and the House of Lords

[obiter dictum]

Looks very much like Osborne and his cuts to proposed Tax Credits are to be slung out by the House of lords where the Executive do not have a Majority.

 

That is 4 Billion pounds extra he will have to find. The arrogance of this Government thinking it can railroad through legislation with no oversight beggers belief.

 

Makes a mockery of a "Budget Surplus" rhetoric

 

So instead of giving China a 2 Billion pound UK tax payer sweetner, use that money to plug the deficit generated by this tax credit fiasco

[unclebulgaria67]

Looks very much like Osborne and his cuts to proposed Tax Credits are to be slung out by the House of lords where the Executive do not have a Majority.

 

That is 4 Billion pounds extra he will have to find. The arrogance of this Government thinking it can railroad through legislation with no oversight beggers belief.

 

Makes a mockery of a "Budget Surplus" rhetoric

 

So instead of giving China a 2 Billion pound UK tax payer sweetner, use that money to plug the deficit generated by this tax credit fiasco

 

Under the parliament act and normal protocols, HOL can only ask HOC to consider it again. If HOC decide to continue, because it is a finance measure contained in the Tory manifesto, the HOL could not block it again. So tax credit changes would go through, unless enough Tory MP's voted against or abstained.

[obiter dictum]

There will be an uproar if the Parliament Act was used, especially the bad feeling towards Government and welfare reforms

 

The last person to do that was Tony Blair in taking us into the second Gulf War

 

I am sure this will simply be put on the back burners through the house of lords. Remember when Liar Blair tried to get through parliament non Jury trials for complex fraud cases? 2003 i believe and trying to amend the Criminal Justice Act

 

It was the house of lords that put the brakes on that on a constitutional basis

[SabreSheep]

Except the HOL have backed down......

[obiter dictum]

Lisetening on the Radio today it looks very much as though it is going to be put to a vote on monday

 

 

Yesterdays paper

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/20/liberal-democrats-tax-credit-cuts-peers-house-of-lords-fatal-motion-tim-farron

 

The argument being that nowhere in the Tory Election Manifesto did they mention changes in Tax Credits. They even denied any changes in one of the live TV Election Debates

Edited October 21, 2015 by obiter dictum

[Tawnyowl]

Lords forced to back down on tax credits motion as Tory rebellion grows

Peers warned of constitutional crisis and loss of powers if they press ahead with plan to kill off cuts

 

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/oct/20/government-forces-lords-to-back-down-over-tax-credits-motion

 

David Cameron threatens peers over tax credits

David Cameron says that the House of Lords must consider 'very carefully' any plans to overturn the will of the Commons by blocking tax credits

David Cameron has indicated that he is prepared to flood the House of Lords with Conservatives if opposition peers torpedo the Government’s plans to cut tax credits.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11944957/Lords-poised-to-back-down-over-bid-to-kill-off-tax-credit-cuts.html

 

I have seen women nearly in tears over these possible cuts.

On news reports.Stressed and worried.

This money makes so much difference to families up and down the country.

 

I know a few potential entrepreneurs just starting who rely on this before things hopefully taking off.

I myself was yesterday told through a close family member via the Job Centre to look into this benefit.

Which i was going to do when this thread appeared.

 

I must admit to not knowing to much about possible changes.

Could someone enlighten me.

Who it will effect,and by how much perhaps.

 

I am hopping off to give this thread some publicity.

Nice one obitor dictum and Sabresheep for rousing me to post.

[obiter dictum]

That was yesterday

 

I am still listening to the debate on BBC News

 

The slagging match is going on right now

 

I will update with the 3pm headlines

[obiter dictum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDyAHon_XrU

[Tawnyowl]

Anyone wondering where Tawnyowl stands on this.

I am neutral.

Just want fairness for families.

See a lot of stressed worried people in towns and cities.

Maybe i am too near the wonderful powerful Northern Powerhouse.

Wherever that may be.

Do not give a stuff for which party you or anyone supports,just take notice of what i see,hear around town.

I agree,disagree with many policies from many.

And i respect your right to as well.

Also i do not want to offend anyone.Just have your say,let it out.

 

And have had a right go at both major parties at times.And written to them

That is the time you usually get ignored i have found.

Even got asked to speak by one at a event which i declined.

[Nystagmite]

So, whilst all this stuff about tax credits is going on in the news, they're keeping quiet about the fact that from April next year that many other working age benefits will be frozen. They're all keeping quiet about the fact that under universal credit, some of us could stand to lose over £60 a week.

[SabreSheep]

What you shamefully do is typical of your party, you pick on just one part of a whole package. This is just one small part of a large package of measures that will see workers better off in real terms but you don't want to mention the other parts.

 

Labour plant.

 

The IFS has stated that the WHOLE PACKAGE will lead to people being worse off and that the Governments pledges to the contrary are Arithmetically impossible

[Conniff]

The IFS has stated that the WHOLE PACKAGE will lead to people being worse off and that the Governments pledges to the contrary are Arithmetically impossible

 

And no one from either side has ever put out any supporting evidence or real case proof either way.

[SabreSheep]

The IFS I believe has, and it is not on anyones side, it is an INDEPENDENT Government funded body.....

[SabreSheep]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/87b00b52-264e-11e5-9c4e-a775d2b173ca.html#axzz3pDEWjqPU has some of the arguments

[Conniff]

Where is it, it will be worth pasting here ?

[SabreSheep]

An IFS distributional analysis

 

PDF available from here http://www.ifs.org.uk/search?q=tax+credits

 

From the IFS itself

[obiter dictum]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34591219

[Tawnyowl]

A article that some may want to pick at perhaps.

I am beginning to understand why many are worrying.

 

Unison claims that 2.7 million low to middle income working families will be "significantly" hit, along with their 5.2 million dependent children.

 

Its research, based on HM Revenue and Customs figures, says 357,000 working families in London will be hurt by the changes, with the West Midlands (269,000) and Yorkshire and the Humber (255,000) following next.

Tax credit cuts explained: What is changing and how it affects you

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-10-19/tax-credit-cuts-explained-what-is-changing-and-how-it-affects-you/

 

The lady on the article,i mean the video on page 1 says you promised not to cut Tax Credits is this so.

Breach of contract to the people if so.

Speaking with forked tongue on such a matter to win votes is a touch harsh do you not think.

Must have known before the election surely,yet smiled and carried on comes to mind.

Some member of the public must have asked this question before to the ministers.

Are you there.If you are tell us who and when.

We will get a message to them.No problem.

[unclebulgaria67]

It is unclear whether the fatal motion will be put in the HOL, as that would cause a constituional crisis. They are apparently putting another motion down, which is less confrontational.

 

Tax credits in general is a bad idea, but to get rid of it, must mean transitional measures are put into place to make sure people are protected. Cameron promised before the election that tax credits were not part of the £12bn cuts he wanted to make. Therefore he has gone back on his word. I don't trust Cameron as he has proved to give false information in a calculating way before elections e.g no top down changes to NHS.

[Tawnyowl]

For those that missed the debate yesterday which i did a chance to view again.Adding more info soon.

House of Commons

Tuesday 20 October 2015 Meeting started at 11.34am, ended 7.46pm

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/99730071-d706-4092-83dd-d1a9c0591c12?in=14:22:54

 

Oh dear just heard it may hit the self employed just as i was considering looking at things.

Due to dodgy heart had to make major move to carry on working.

I think i have no choice but to go in the Job Centre and ask about things.

See if a adviser can help.Cause i have not got a clue.About Tax Credits.

 

So possible troubles for families and the self employed.

Oh no not carers as well,those hard working people who are so underestimated.

Dare i carry on listening to it.Have no choice now,i am well into the mire for many now.

 

It seems these sums of money that people receive mean so much to people.Helps with putting food on the table,help paying rent,little things like that.

Better listen to both sides views.

 

Oh it seems some ministers on the Conservatives side are none to happy about these changes.

But will they get whipped into submission.

 

I believe these Tax Credit payments have helped many a entrepreneur get going and succeed.

Then when moved into taxation paid back many times over.

Do not choke it off now.Tawnyowl is flying in.And will report on this moment.

A few pounds makes so much difference at first.

 

David Cameron said he would not cut tax credits and yet is going to do this.

Is this true i will search for this.

 

I am just going to diversify for one or two sentences.

Could a wise one open a thread on Carers

I feel they perhaps are suffering in many ways.

 

Well i have not checked it out but here is the moment this was said.A video it says is there.

Here's the moment David Cameron made a promise not to cut tax credits - which he broke today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxS-Tow-Qik

[citizenB]

Unfortunately the introduction of the Tax credits, enabled employers to keep salaries low.

[unclebulgaria67]

Unfortunately the introduction of the Tax credits, enabled employers to keep salaries low.

 

They have tax credits in the US and other countries for the same reason.

 

I think the world economy is in a poor state and the more i read, convinces me that Cameron/Osborne believe that another heart attack could happen at any time. The Banks are still not in great shape, the Chinese economy is growing a lot less than official figures show, some businesses are reporting reduced profits as consumer spending has reduced etc. Perhaps the Tories are cutting quickly, because they think they need to create a better position ahead of another difficult period.

[SabreSheep]

The biggest clues are

 

1. Inflation keeps dipping into the negative - THIS is why they are raising the minimum wage in order to drive inflation.

2. The alternative to 1. was to raise interest rates but most of the increase in GDP has been property related and fuelled by a MASSIVE increase in consumer debt. To raise interest rates would lead to a housing crash and depression

3. Price of Gold is rising, China is buyng up gold atm

[Mike_hawk]

What you shamefully do is typical of your party, you pick on just one part of a whole package. This is just one small part of a large package of measures that will see workers better off in real terms but you don't want to mention the other parts.

 

.

 

I think what you meant to say is the posts were shamefully picking away at the vile and disgusting attitude of the current incumbents to the poorest in UK society.

[determindator]

Back to Conniff,

 

about workers will be better off in real terms. If the package of measures were put in place first before you take away? i.e introduce free child care for those who meet that criteria. Reminds me when they build housing developments before the infrastructure to support the increase of people. Profit before people. It can actually all be done at the same time, side by side,