School fines!

[Sparks_]

After the recent court case would the 'fines' given to parents for taking their children on holiday in term time be now classed as a speculative invoice? And could those who have paid them claim the money back?

[unclebulgaria67]

No, it was only Magistrates. Somebody would need to take it to the High Court. The law says about regular attendance, so taking them outside of school for a few days only per year, should not end up with a fine. But i reckon schools in need of funds will continue as they have.

[tobyjugg2]

Recently there has been a case where a parent took it all the way to court - and won.

 

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2015-10-19/man-wins-court-fight-over-120-fine-for-taking-daughter-on-holiday-in-term-time/

 

So provided your kids have good general attendance and are high achievers, it would seem the initial precedent has been set.

Cost more than the fine though.

[Sparks_]

That is what I am referring to and this......

The issue of the fine, which was originally £60 and then doubled because of his refusal to pay, went before the Isle of Wight Magistrates' Court and Mr Platt won his case.

 

He successfully argued that Section 444 of the Education Act required parents to ensure their children attended school "regularly", and did not put restrictions on taking them on holidays in term time.

 

So on what law can schools 'fine' a parent?

[obiter dictum]

I do wish people would stop referring to these as "Fines"

 

Only a court can issue a fine

 

These are Civil Penalty Orders

 

I would imagine the school can issue these orders as a contractual issue on attending that particular school between the parent and the school

[Sparks_]

https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/overview

 

Even on a government web site it is referred to as a fine!

[tobyjugg2]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/401467/parental_responsibility_measures_for_school_attendance_and_behaviour.pdf.pdf

 

http://gov.wales/docs/dcells/publications/130925-guidance-regular-non-attendance-en.pdf

 

http://www3.hants.gov.uk/code_of_conduct_-_issuing_penalty_notices_for_unauthorised_absence_from_schools.pdf

[martin2006]

as things stand atm. no precedent has been set regarding whether these "fines", "penalty charges", call them what you will, are illegal as this victory was in a magistrates court and not a high court.

 

on the face of things, schools will continue to issue them and each individual one will have to be challenged in its own right until its brought before a high court judge

 

Pay them or fight them, choice is down to each individual

[buckthorn]

What reason is being given for the fine, these parents receive for taking their children on holiday??

[martin2006]

The "fines" can be given out for a number of reasons but boils down to attendance, unless you provide doctors notes for every illness your child has, they can be classed as unauthorised absence, its when this absence drops a child below the target attendance figure, between 94 and 97% depending on school, that's what triggers the issuing of the fines. truancy is also factor, in fact anything thats classed as unauthorised and headteachers have been instructed not to allow term time holidays.

 

I have a 15 yr old who tonite, leaves for a school trip to disneyland in paris, they were let out of school at 1pm today and as the coaches leave at 10.30pm tonite they have been given tomorrow off aswell, all approved as school is taking them!

 

thats double standards, coz if u or i were to do the same, a fine would surely follow

[andydd]

Recent news articles suggest that this law maybe revoked or at least head teachers given more say whether the student can have time off.

[tobyjugg2]

Recent news articles suggest that this law maybe revoked or at least head teachers given more say whether the student can have time off.

 

Its my understanding that the head teacher always did have discretion, but there are some indications that in using it the schools 'stats' suffered.

[Nystagmite]

Where does the collected money go to? Is it the LA or the school?

[buckthorn]

Thank you for that information:-

 

So the head teacher can allow time off at her/his discretion.

The head teacher can also allow in term time trips to places like Disneyland Paris.

If a family wish to take their children away for 2 weeks the head teacher can impose

a fine. If she/he has not given permission.

 

I assume this is because it is considered that by taking the child away for 2 weeks, would interrupt that child’s education and therefore be detrimental, to their ability to pass an exam?

 

This is the way I see it:- if a week in Disneyland is not detrimental to the child, a week away with their parents is not a problem nether.

There is one of two reasons in my opinion it is either money generating or it is a power thing do as I say not as I do.

 

Question what happens to these same children when the teachers go on strike, does this not interrupt their education, as well as the whole family, should they be fined?

[Nystagmite]

But strikes aren't 2 weeks at a time.

[obiter dictum]

Not only that offiicial industrial action has the protection of statute so cannot be a criminal or civil offence being subject to a financial penalty.

 

Taking you child out of school without prior consent is

[steveod]

Not only that offiicial industrial action has the protection of statute so cannot be a criminal or civil offence being subject to a financial penalty.

 

Taking you child out of school without prior consent is

 

Except the right to strike is protected as you say by statute and human rights, but so is the right of children to education and not to suffer harm. Why should the teachers rights to strike trump the children's rights to education also protected by statute and human rights? The DFE stated that even keeping children out of school for a short term is harmful. Therefore striking and school trips and tutor days where kids don't go in to school are all harmful to children, violate their rights and must be banned? See how ridiculous it gets.

[obiter dictum]

The whole concept of these school civil penalties has got absolutely nothing to do with education, no matter what people might say. It is schools and Governments obsessed with performance statistics and traget figures

 

That is the real cause

[Filcin]

Not only that offiicial industrial action has the protection of statute so cannot be a criminal or civil offence being subject to a financial penalty.

 

Taking you child out of school without prior consent is

 

I think a judge has just confirmed that it's not unlawful, not sending them regularly is.

 

It matters not about protected status bunk, if the teachers were really sincere and these fines issued because of educational fears, they wouldn't go out on strike with their 'give me the money' days off, they would find another way like 'negotiation'.

 

The whole guidance and the issuing of fines are saying "you are not entitled to have a family holiday". Not everyone can get holidays during school holiday times, companies have to roster their employees time off to avoid disruption to production.

I know some companies are lucky enough that they can close so all staff are off for the same period, but they are few.