Real crime levels ?

[unclebulgaria67]

The ONS has today estimated that there are 5 million cases of fraud a year, with at least half being online. Much of this was not included in previous crime survey stats which showed reductions in crime.

 

I have always believed that crime has not reduced, but it has simply changed or Police don't investigate it. Most shoplifting is not reported and is dealt with on a civil basis. Fraud reporting has been made difficult, with Police not investigating in most cases.

 

When i look locally, in the last year or so, i believe crime has increased. A local newsagent was burgled, a cashpoint was broken into, there have been raids on several properties growing canabis. The Police do seem to be able to catch the criminals more quickly from intelligence, CCTV etc. The newsagent burglars were caught within a few weeks and came from about 40 miles away. They were obviously rubbish criminals, as they had already been to prison for similar crimes.

[obiter dictum]

Does not matter what figures are published

 

Crime

health

unemployment

inflation (RPI & CPI)

 

They would have been twisted to the Government advantage to give the best possible outlook with the public. Another reason for so much voter apathy in politics

[SabreSheep]

I think the key distinction is that "Reported Crime" has decreased

[andydd]

I think the key distinction is that "Reported Crime" has decreased

 

People are less likely to report crime due to

 

a) They believe (often through experience) that the Police don't bother investigated properally

 

b) In cases such as card fraud, they get reimbursed by the bank/card company so dont bother reporting it.

 

I believe crime has stayed about the same or even increased over the last few years and dont believe figures that suggest otherwise.

 

As anyone knows who has worked in any sort of business, statistics massaging always takes place, i recall working for an engineering company making car parts, fiddling the SPC quality control figures took place daily.

[Conniff]

As the majority of cyber crime is done by Russians, I don't think it would be fair to include them in UK crime figures.

[obiter dictum]

And it has been confirmed the majority of cyber crime orignates from China by the american NSA, ask SONY

 

We should also be asking our own GCHQ as well according to Edward Snowden with unlawful interceptions:-)

 

"PRISM"

 

And you people thnk "Cloud Servers" are secure like microsoft, Apple etc? think again

 

I hate Wikipedia but as the source is Edward Snowden

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSCULAR_%28surveillance_program%29

Edited October 15, 2015 by obiter dictum

[Conniff]

GCHQ has absolutely nothing to do with cyber crime. Listening into things, quite rightly. but not planting malware that steals money from peoples bank accounts. Nor do they install ransomware.

 

So where prism comes into the price of fish I can't see.

[obiter dictum]

Unlawful access to peoples communications in the UK is Cyber crime

 

Just because there are no financial gains does not make it any less illegal

[Conniff]

Don't worry, I don't think they will be bothered with you. You have nothing interesting they want.

 

Why don't you want anyone to keep our country safe, all your posts have been for terrorists and against retribution of them.

 

Snowden doesn't know as much as he thinks and pretends he does.

[obiter dictum]

It is not the fact they are looking into peoples private communications

 

It is the fact they are being allowed to get away with it contrary to statute is the real concern

 

Democracy suffers when governments start using the law as their own private play thing

 

That has then the makings of a Dictatorship

 

Nothing is higher than the law

[Conniff]

I forgot to add, for Snowden read Corbyn. He's demanding he is made a part of the privy council so he will know our secrets. If Corbyn is allowed in then they might as well let Putin in as well. [the Right Honourable Vladimir Putin] these are the jokes folks.

 

How do you know that someone in the next street isn't involved in terrorist activity and planning mayhem in the supermarket that you visit. You don't, but the intelligence services probably do. Isn't that reassuring ?

[obiter dictum]

Still avoiding the question about snooping and survaliance??

 

If the UK Governments want to snoop on its own citizens then change the Law, dont break it by subtefuge and deceit

 

But if that happened there would be cross party Parliamentary oversight committees protecting democracy

[Conniff]

I don't see a question so I can't answer what isn't there.

 

If you are referring to 'It is not the fact they are looking into peoples private communications', that is just a statement unless you end it with a question mark.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Conniff

[tobyjugg2]

How do you know that someone in the next street isn't involved in terrorist activity and planning mayhem in the supermarket that you visit. You don't, but the intelligence services probably do. Isn't that reassuring ?

 

No.

How do you know they know, or whether they don't know?

You don't - nor will you ever know without the Snowdens of this world.

 

How do you know WHAT they are looking at (what they say they are or something else)?

You don't - nor will you ever know without the Snowdens of this world.

 

and that IS the issue.

 

 

Like the reported crime figures themselves.

For example, How many people here have tried to report a perhaps minor crime - to be fobbed off at the call centre contact stage, and all attempts, even direct asking for a crime reference number sidestepped and sidestepped until you just hang up.

I have on more than one occasion.

[andydd]

GCHQ has absolutely nothing to do with cyber crime. Listening into things, quite rightly. but not planting malware that steals money from peoples bank accounts. Nor do they install ransomware.

 

So where prism comes into the price of fish I can't see.

 

GCHQ is indeed involved in the detection and prevention of cyber crime - http://www.gchq.gov.uk/what_we_do/the-threats-we-face/Pages/index.aspx

[caledfwlch]

Don't worry, I don't think they will be bothered with you. You have nothing interesting they want.

 

Why don't you want anyone to keep our country safe, all your posts have been for terrorists and against retribution of them.

 

Snowden doesn't know as much as he thinks and pretends he does.

 

I can see why you hold your point of view.

 

Afterall, the 1930's version of your posts and "if your not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear" worked out really well for the Citizens of Germany between 1933 and 1945 Also worked out absolutely fine for any Russian from 1918 to 1990, or East European from 1945 to 1989.

 

I have a fave if longish part of a speech from a SciFi/Dystopian/near future movie which I have edited, only by a very few words, but it is chilling how well it fits right now, except, this speech is against a Totalitarian Fascist Regime.

 

And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty, poverty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have Rupert Murdoch and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, Austerity, Terrorism, Immigration, Rising Crime. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to David Cameron and the Tories. They promised you an end to the EU, a living wage, the right to buy your council home, they promised you peace, and all they demanded in return was your vote and then your silent, obedient consent

 

Your attitude is exactly the one that leads to innocent men and women being murdered by the State every single year in the USA. People who support Capital Punishment are HAPPY that innocent people are killed, because it means some genuine bad ones are too. Does it not concern you that British Police Constables are allowed to commit murder, even of an innocent man on live television, and get away with it? Is it not concerning that the possibility that a Constable may have lied about what an irate Tory minister said to him inflamed Parliament far more than the murder of an innocent newspaper seller on tv?

 

Why should you or I stick to the Law, if the Government doesnt?

[caledfwlch]

GCHQ has absolutely nothing to do with cyber crime. Listening into things, quite rightly. but not planting malware that steals money from peoples bank accounts. Nor do they install ransomware.

 

So where prism comes into the price of fish I can't see.

 

Whilst they are a bit shyer of admitting it these days, one of MI6's "duties" and, rightfully so, imho is Industrial Espionage, both protecting British Companies from being the victims of it, and using it against foreign companies to benefit British ones, pretty much what any governmental Spy agency with portfolio for "abroad" will be expected to do.

 

And who do you think gives them their IT Support?

 

GCHQ has teams and teams of Software Engineers fully trained in Cyber Warfare, and to defuse a munition, whether a digital trojan or a physical artillery shell, you pretty much have to know how it works, and thus how to build one.

 

Of course they are building trojans, spyware and other internet "nasties" its how they infiltrate online terrorist and rogue state networks. Look at that remarkable computer Virus that borked the Iranian nuclear programme, it certainly had "Made in Virginia" stamped all over it, and very likely "Made in Cheltenham" too.

[andydd]

The ONS has today estimated that there are 5 million cases of fraud a year, with at least half being online. Much of this was not included in previous crime survey stats which showed reductions in crime.

 

I have always believed that crime has not reduced, but it has simply changed or Police don't investigate it. Most shoplifting is not reported and is dealt with on a civil basis. Fraud reporting has been made difficult, with Police not investigating in most cases.

 

When i look locally, in the last year or so, i believe crime has increased. A local newsagent was burgled, a cashpoint was broken into, there have been raids on several properties growing canabis. The Police do seem to be able to catch the criminals more quickly from intelligence, CCTV etc. The newsagent burglars were caught within a few weeks and came from about 40 miles away. They were obviously rubbish criminals, as they had already been to prison for similar crimes.

 

Couldnt agree more, no-one puts stocking on their heads and runs into the bank with a swan off when they could sit and home and hack people credit cards, and these cases dont get reported to the police, hence the alleged drop in crime. Id hazard a guess that everyone of us has been the victim of card crime, I have 3 times !

[unclebulgaria67]

Does concern me the way things are going ?

 

I am not convinced crime levels have changed over the last 20 years. It is just different types of crime and how stats are managed. I am not convinced that the UK is under any greater threat now, than it was say in the 1980's. During the 1980's i can remember being evacuated out of buildings due to IRA bomb threats and having transport disrupted.

 

7/7 was a bad day and there have been other threats since. But other countries have had such situations with attacks from home grown terrorists, even when some were known to Police. It would seem no amount of surveillance makes much difference. It is good for using to find evidence after the event and may lead to people connected to terrorists being found.

 

With so many methods of communication available, it is possible for criminals to work together to commit acts without being detected. No amount of Police or security services work is going to stop people who are well organised.

 

Money would probably be better spent on providing support to community organisations around the country, that look to make communities more socially connected. Then you have millions of eyes and ears of people who care what is happening around them. If they feel more invested in being part of a community, they might report things they see, which are of concern.

[unclebulgaria67]

Couldnt agree more, no-one puts stocking on their heads and runs into the bank with a swan off when they could sit and home and hack people credit cards, and these cases dont get reported to the police, hence the alleged drop in crime. Id hazard a guess that everyone of us has been the victim of card crime, I have 3 times !

 

If they were going into a Bank with Swans, that would cause some flapping !

[caledfwlch]

If they were going into a Bank with Swans, that would cause some flapping !

 

I call Foul on this bad pun!!

[unclebulgaria67]

I call Foul on this bad pun!!

 

Could not resist !

 

If you get caught by the old bill robin a Bank with a swan, you would be up in front of the beak !

 

Now that is a better pun !

[caledfwlch]

Could not resist !

 

If you get caught by the old bill robin a Bank with a swan, you would be up in front of the beak !

 

Now that is a better pun !

 

And that's your life, like your arm, up the Swany... so to speak!

 

But you might have a really good Legal Eagle, building a defense based on you being off in cloud cuckoo land

[tobyjugg2]

.. even if you were out of your tree you would still end up doing bird.

[unclebulgaria67]

And that's your life, like your arm, up the Swany... so to speak!

 

But you might have a really good Legal Eagle, building a defense based on you being off in cloud cuckoo land

 

Been watching too much Paul Merton on HIGNFY over the years, where he finds an amusing subject and goes off in a tangent.

 

Back to the subject, when i have spoken to Bank IT staff before that deal with security, they have not been keen with internet banking or too much of a network being created. Hacking now seems to be reported on a weekly basis and no amount of security appears to make much difference. Much of this is from abroad and they don't need to visit a bank in the UK.