Ashbourne management contract for 7 year old. Can I cancel?

[Feeturingnat]

Hi all.

I am desperate for help to see if there is any way I can cancel a 12 month contract before the 1st payment is due this december.

I stupidly signed a contract for my 7 year old son who wanted to continue his karate classes having just been awarded his infant black belt.

 

He has been a member since December 2013 and attended this local club weekly till 24th june this year where he earned his final belt. The teacher asked him if he wanted to continue into junior classes as he received his belt and he said yes in his excitement. I had 10 mins to fill in paperwork before the next class started and so I stupidly did not read the terms and conditions before signing. Worse yet, I filled in my details and signed before the minimum terms were filled in. My 7 year old subsequently changed his mind.

 

I tried to cancel the contract a couple of weeks later, assuming it would be fine as he wasn't due to start till September when the first payment was due. Ashbourne told me they couldn't do anything without the teachers support. During the summer the teacher called Ashbourne to offer her support for my cause and she then told me she could do no more as it was up to them. Suffice to say they are not interested and they expect 12 payments of the £69. I wrote to them pleading for goodwill, and they have suspended payments till December 1st. At least the constant letters demanding arrears for payments that werent even due this summer have stopped for now.....

 

If they won't offer goodwill, is there anything I can do?

Im very worried I have no choice but to pay £828 for a karate class my son wont attend.

Please help....

Edited October 18, 2015 by Conniff

[BankFodder]

Well I'm afraid that you are dealing with Ashbourne – who would rather make a buck than improve their public reputation.

 

I would suggest that you simply send them a letter explaining the situation and cancelling the contract with immediate effect. Make sure that any payment orders have been cancelled.

 

Tell Ashbourne that if they think that they have incurred any administrative losses as a result of your seven-year-old's change of mind then they should let you know what it is and you will consider paying it. Other than that you will not pay them anything.

 

Tell them that you are well aware of their reputation for chasing people until they eventually give up in order to obtain some peace and quiet – but you will not give in.

 

Be prepared I'm afraid for all the letters et cetera and threats of legal action. It will probably go on for quite a long time.

 

They will threaten legal action. It is extremely unlikely that they will bring any legal action but you will have to face it out. In the unlikely event that they do issue a County Court claim against you, then come back here and let us know. We will suggest that you defend on the basis that you gave them good notice of cancellation, that they knew that the contract was being made on behalf a small child, that you have not taken them up on any aspect of the contract and that you have not cause them any losses and that you have offered to cover any administrative expenses but they have failed to let you know what they might be.

[Bazooka Boo]

Whoa, hold your horses!!

 

Which Gym is this?

 

This is money for nothing and reeks to high heaven!

 

Have you got the contract you signed?

 

There will have been a cooling off period usually 14 days, but might be different/shorter as you signed up for it on site. I'll have to dig about.

 

But, there is NO way I would begin to entertain their demands, those silly letters are designed to intimidate you into paying money you don't

necessarily owe.

 

I'm pretty sure slick will be able to advise on this, in the meantime, collate as much evidence as you can, keep a diary of events,

and keep their foolish missives, if they ring, laugh and hang up, keep everything in writing, you've got some time to

hit back at them yet.

[Bazooka Boo]

Oh yes, now I remember!!

 

Seems they're still up to their old tricks, CMA might like to know about these as well?

http://uk.practicallaw.com/3-506-4863#

[obiter dictum]

If memory serves me right you cannot cancel these agreements as they have been signed on Trade Premises

 

67(1)(b) CCA 1974

[Bazooka Boo]

If memory serves me right you cannot cancel these agreements as they have been signed on Trade Premises

 

I kind of remember something like that, BUT, they do need to be given time to read and have the T&C's explained, even if it is them reading it out verbatim, at least the most salient points.

[obiter dictum]

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/changed-your-mind/cancelling-a-gym-membership/

[slick132]

Hi Feeturingat and welcome to CAG

 

I suggest you follow Bankfodder's advice, cancel the DD mandate and write to Ashbourne telling them you need to cancel this agreement which is in respect of a young minor.

 

If you offer to pay reasonable Ashbourne any reasonable admin losses incurred as a direct result of the cancellation, you will be seen to be acting reasonably and fairly.

 

[Feeturingnat]

Thank you all so much for your advice,

I am really scared to front this out in case it does go forward into a court battle as I would have minimal monies to pursue legal representation. However, I also feel that they are purely out for their monies and couldnt care less about the clubs they act on behalf of or the youngsters that attend......so for this reason I will take my chances.

When I wrote to them last month, I offered to pay a cancellation penalty or their commission that I assume they receive. Their response to suspend payments for 3 months was no news as they had told me this would happen by phone some 2 weeks before.

I will write to them again today stating I have no intention of reinstating the direct debit which I had cancelled in july. I will offer again to pay a reasonable cancellation penalty and see how I go.

I will keep you posted and see if I can hold my nerve.

Scary stuff but I feel indignant to pay such a vast sum to them for doing nothing!

Many thanks again, your advice is greatly appreciated.

 

Hi there,

Yes I do have the contract I signed and all the letters that have gone back and forth. I have a log of calls too but im not sure that will hold water so I will stick to letters from now on.

Sadly the contract I signed didnt have a cooling off period which I stupidly didnt realise. I assumed that since I signed in june and he wasnt due to start till mid sptember that I could cancel before he would start.

I wont be so stupid again.

[BankFodder]

I have just noticed that you say that the contractual terms were not completed before you signed it. Is there any way to prove that? Who would have filled in the minimum term?

 

Might the teacher have remembered this?

 

If parts of the contract were completed after you signed it, then they are not enforceable.

 

Do you have a copy of the contract? Are things like the minimum term completed in 10 rather than being part of the printed standard terms and conditions?

[slick132]

Hi Feeturing,

 

BF's post above, last para, should probably read, "...... the minimum term completed in writing rather than being ......" He uses Dictation Software !!

 

AMSL are not likely to take you to court in a hurry. They took a beating in the High Court in 2011 - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?320766-Ashbourne-Management-Services-Ltd-Contracts-longer-than-12-months In the unlikely event of court action, we would be here to assist. And you're right about AMSL being in it just for the money.

 

Can you scan and post up copies of the agreement and of the T&C's that apply. For a guide to doing this, see post #4 here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?444501-Barclays-Partner-Finance-Clyesdale-financial-services-reclaiming-charges&p=4725968&viewfull=1#post4725968

 

If you haven't sent the letter yet, hold on just now so we can suggest what to tell AMSL.

 

[BankFodder]

Hi Feeturing,

 

BF's post above, last para, should probably read, "...... the minimum term completed in writing rather than being ......" He uses Dictation Software !!

 

 

Correct. Beware of homophones!!

 

I'm also a bit sloppy about checking my posts before submitting them - sorry!

[Feeturingnat]

Unfortunately I have already sent the letter....I had such a bee in my bonnet yesterday!

 

I do have a copy of the contract and yes the 12 month minimum term was added in writing after I stupidly signed but I have no way to prove that. It was the teacher/owner of the club that filled it in and whilst she has told me she will support my sons decision to cancel, im not sure I can rely on her, as she was the person that bamboozled me in the first instance and she is quite the business woman herself.

 

In terms of what I told Ashbourne in my long winded letter, I mentioned the contract in respect of a small child, that I signed before minimum term was added, that I had no time to read T and Cs as the next class was coming in, that I have been trying to cancel since july (2 months before his first class), that I have tried to be reasonable...offering to pay a fair cancellation penalty or admin charge and that I have no intention of reinstating the direct debit that was cancelled in july. I also mentioned I was prepared to be taken to court and would pay up if the court saw fit but that I hoped they would show goodwill and offer me a cancellation/admin fee instead. (I also listed all the numerous requests for money I received this summer for arrears charges that were not even due, with dates, amounts and the customer service staff who I have been speaking to, time of calls and the fact I was told to ignore the letters as the staff realised that at that time I didnt owe money)

 

I have copies of all the letters, and a log of all the calls although im not sure the call log helps me much..

 

I hope I haven't shot myself in the foot with any of that but I would rather now pay more if the courts decided, than not to fight these bullies at all.

 

Thank you so much for your advice, I will attempt to scan and post the contract when I get a chance although im not too tech savvy.

[slick132]

Hi Feeturing,

 

Can you post up a copy of what you wrote to them but hide any identifiers (for anonymity).

 

If the period of m/ship was added AFTER you signed, you can challenge this. You don't need proof really - that would be down to AMSL to prove the min term was added BEFORE you signed.

 

Don't you have a copy of the contract with the min m/ship term left as blank.

 

Have you cancelled the DD mandate yet.

 

[slick132]

I also think you should take a look at Sch 2; Part 1; Para 5 here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?448395-schedule-2-Part-1&p=4757577&viewfull=1#post4757577

 

5

A term which has the object or effect of requiring that, where the consumer decides not to conclude or perform the contract, the consumer must pay the trader a disproportionately high sum in compensation or for services which have not been supplied.

 

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 which has just come into force may offer help.

 

You've given good notice that YS will not be taking up the new classes. Hence the services will not be supplied and you cannot be penalised disproportionately.

 

[obiter dictum]

Quick question Slick

 

Can you use the new Consumer Rights Act as it only came into force this month?

 

I do not believe it is Retrospective

[renegadeimp]

Slick is really good with these companies obiter. Despite the CCA and other things, he hasnt failed to help someone yet.

[obiter dictum]

That i have no doubt

[renegadeimp]

The thing with ashbourne is they very rarely follow the rules. They just do what they want then try to hide behind them. Never really works out for them though.

[Conniff]

You have been asked a few times if you have a copy of the contract, do you ??

 

What gym is it ??

[Feeturingnat]

Hi all, sorry for the gap in my updates, I have just come back from leave.

Ashbourne have responded to my letter offering me 25% discount as a final settlement bringing the amount they expect from me to £621.

I think I will write back this week that this is still unreasonable but I am scared to push my luck too much.

Im sorry I have been unable to scan my contract and post it as my PC has died a sudden death.

Do you think turning down Ashbournes offer will reflect badly if they take me to court? To be honest if they offered 50% reduction I would probably reluctantly accept it just to get them off my tail.

I have 4 more weeks till technically first payment is due....

Many thanks for your advice,

 

Sorry conniff,

Yes I do have copy of contract but I cant post it at the moment....I will try to get a friend to help me.

[slick132]

Hi Feeturing,

 

Write back to AMSL :-

 

I refer to your letter of xxdate and I will not pay the reduced amount you suggest.

 

No service has been provided and adequate notice was given of cancellation in respect of my young son.

 

If the gym has suffered a loss as a consequence of the cancellation, please quantify the amount so I can seek advice in the matter.

[Feeturingnat]

Thank you slick, your advice is so helpful. I will pen the letter this evening and register it tomorrow.

[Bazooka Boo]

Absolutely no chance of them even trying this on in court, so refusing their extortionate offer is never going to harm your chances.

 

Quite who they think they are demanding this figure is truly beyond me, utterly utterly ludicrous, and nothing short of criminal IMO.

[Feeturingnat]

Hi all,

Well following the last letter I sent to AMSL they have responded and have not budged from the £621 they want as a final settlement. Im not sure what to do now.

Should I write one last letter suggesting I will pay a 3 month cancellation settlement? That would amount to £210.... and I would gladly pay it to get them off my tail.

 

Or should I leave it with them and say they can take me to court?

 

On December 1st, the first payment would be due and I expect to start receiving letters for arrears.....

 

Given that I did sign this contract for 12 months I am concerned that despite the circumstances of my error, a court will say its too bad and that I have to pay the full amount...

 

Many thanks for your advice, natalie.