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    • Hello. I feel this may be considered to be a petty complaint on my part but would really appreciate views and insight please and I promise to wear my big girl pants and not take offence.  I have lived in my home since 1986. My neighbours moved in a year or two afterwards. In November 2013 I had solar panels installed optimised individually by solar edge and the panels are meant to be ' self cleaning'.  On Wednesday 21.8.19, my semi detached neighbours had a new TV aerial and a satellite dish fitted. It's near to my boundary wall,but clearly fitted on their own wall. I did not look out while his installer was working and did not know what had been done till I went to the front door to see what all the drilling was about then later to get washing in and saw the items on a flex pole. My issue, and this may be where you say I'm being petty, is that the  aerial is angled back and is over my airspace and sitting over my end solar panel. I went next door and told my neighbour my concern about birds sitting on the  aerial and guano issues as well as shading potential interns of the panel.  He said he'd ring the installer. Next morning, he is cleaning in his garden. I saw him and asked if he'd spoken to his installer. He said yes and the chap couldn't get back for 2 weeks.i asked if it could not be sooner, could the aerial not just be slightly moved when the discussion became heated. He said I had no rights to the space above my roof, I had to look at other aerials In the immediate area and he'd taken pictures and would do something if birds mucked Inthe panels and if it was him, he would have bought panels from a company who visited to clean them. I told him I fully appreciated the signal issue but asked could he not have the aerial on the chimney as I do and he told me not to be stupid as he had a dish as well and dishes cannot go on a chimney. I told him I was aware of this. He was by now shouting at me to listen and as I said, it became heated. He then said if I thought the air above my homeward mine I could sort the issue and he would cancel the installer call back. I rang his installer. My neighbours had not recontacted him. He asked if my concern was birds pooping on my panels  and the metal Ariel shadow would have no impact on panel generation and he would ring my neighbour. I am on my own and hate conflict and feel a little intimidated, but am also sure I've done nothing wrong. He told me it was my responsibility to have come out as the work was being done. So, please be frank, am I being petty? Should I just live with this ? I'm aware neighbour issues can escalate and have no desire for that, I just want the darned thing angling slightly away from my solar panel. My aeriels are the chimney ones...his is the new one at the front aspect. Thanks for reading this. 
    • Sorry I should have seen that. Vcs always reply to SARS at the very last minute 
    • Sar(email to VCS) went on 07/08/19 and CPR letter went on 14/08/19 to dcb legal.
    • Thank you all for your input so far. I have now received a letter back from my CPR 31.14 stating 'CPR 31.14 is not relevant to small claims matter, pursuant to cpr 27.2......we are under no obligation to disclose the documentation at this stage.' I assume this response is expected?   I have reworded my defence and made it more succinct, I'm not sure what else I could add?   1. Due to the sparseness of the particulars, it is unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct.   2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. However, the defendant has no liability as they are the Keeper of the vehicle, and the Private Parking Company has failed to comply with the strict provisions of PoFA 2012 to hold anyone other than the driver liable for the charges.   3. Signage at the site is not sufficient. A sign is present on the left hand side of the entrance, away from the driver, and therefore cannot be easily read by the driver of a passing vehicle. On closer inspection this sign states ’Refer to the full Terms & Conditions signs located throughout the car park’. Signs are located so that information is often obscured by other parked cars and is difficult to read. These signs state ‘Entry to or use of this privately operated and managed car park is subject to the current terms and conditions of vehicle control services ltd. Motorists/persons utilising this car park hereby accept in full the terms and conditions.’ Therefore, the driver is deemed to have agreed to the terms and conditions by having entered the car park before knowing what those terms and conditions are. The elements of offer, acceptance and consideration both ways have therefore not been satisfied and so no contract can exist.   4. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the defendant contracted to pay, This additional charge is not recoverable under the protection of freedoms act 2012, Schedule 4 not with reference to the judgement in parking eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4) of the civil procedure rules 1998    In summary, it is the Defendant's position that the claim discloses no cause of action, is without merit, and has no real prospect of success. Accordingly, the Court is invited to strike out the claim of its own initiative, using its case management powers pursuant to CPR 3.4. 
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Jamesx81x

Jacobs 3rd time council has issued an order for recovery proceedings re PCN

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How many times can a council take action on a PCN?

 

This will be the 3rd time this particular council has issued an order for recovery proceedings and we are now on the 3rd different bailif - Jacobs!

 

Isn't there a time when they can no longer keep re-issuing it and sending it to bailiffs?

 

Thanks


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I was under the impression that only one Order for Recovery can be issued and that unless paid, the local authority request permission from the Traffic Enforcement Centre to permit them to issue a warrant.

 

Can you provide some further background information.

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The original PCN was back in 2012.

 

I received the first order for recovery back in 2013 and it was then sent to newlyns.

 

After 12 months a 2nd Order for recovery was issued and again sent to Newlyns.

 

The regs had changed and I received the new letters with new charges but they never came and can only assume they returned it to the council as unable to collect.

 

In September I received a 3rd order for recovery and they have now sent it to Jacobs who have since issued the usual standard letters.

 

I have my reasons for not paying and will not deal with the bailiffs only the council but that is a separate matter.

 

I was under the same impression once they had issued the order that was it...up to the bailiffs company to collect and if they do not then the council can take other action such as county court claim etc.

 

What I'm wanting to know is how many times can they keep repeating this process as each time they are re-setting the time frame it lasts for under the new regs are they not?

 

Thanks in advance


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I was under the impression that they can ask for the "money" after the Warrant expires, but only by using a Debt Collector of which many Enforcement Co's have an arm of.


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Hi Ploddertom

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Yes that's what I was under the impression of including as said above issue County Court proceedings if they choose.

 

I do not understand how they can issue an Order for Recovery each year then re-send to a bailiff company. It is this area I want to clarify.

 

Thanks


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I know its not the same type of thing but once a CCJ has been issued for example a company cannot keep applying for them for the same debt just enforce it.


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Have you asked the Council why & under what Legislation they are doing it? If you live in the same area then I would be also making a song & dance about it with the local Councillors and/or the Leader of the Council & hiss opposite number.


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That is my next step.

 

I am trying to gain information on the legalities of it first before I go to them as there does not seem to be much information on-line.

 

What I want to avoid is for me to ask them and them turn round and say 'because we can' without me been able to tell them the exact reason why they cannot.

 

This is what am looking to clarify.


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I would let them dig their own hole - possibly write a Formal Complaint addressed to the Council CEO and when it all breaks down it will allow you to go to the LGO. Agreed it is not a quick process but as its dragged on for so long now does that matter.


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Thats what I am intending to do just need to know the legal bits surrounding it first.


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James, can you let us know how much Jacobs are requesting in their letter. For instance, have they charged you a Compliance fee of £75?

 

Secondly, have to spoken to the Traffic Enforcement Centre to ascertain whether or not a warrant of control has been authorised by them . If so, you need to ask for the date of the warrant ?

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Yes received the first standard letter.

 

They are requesting the original PCN plus their £75 fee!

 

This is now the 3rd order for recovery and a different enforcement agent.


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Anyone point me in the right direction on this?

 

Thanks


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Just a quick one...what happens if the amount on the order for recovery is wrong? Would they have to reapply?


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Just a quick one...what happens if the amount on the order for recovery is wrong? Would they have to reapply?

 

I am just concerned that if you fail to pay during the 'compliance stage' that the debt will then progress to the 'enforcement' stage and with it, an enforcement fe of £235 will also apply.

 

Have you spoken to the Traffic Enforcement Centre to ascertain the date on which the warrant had been issued?

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29/09/2015

 

Understand what you re saying but I been through these stages for the last 2 years with the other companies and they didn't get a thing neither will these guys.

 

As said £75 PCN + £7 court fee on the order does not make a total of £96 which they are trying to claim!


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Overall what I really want answering is are they allowed to keep applying for a warrant every time one runs out?

 

It was my understanding they were allowed to apply for an extension before the warrant ran out but once expired thats it end of it.


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The councils can pay a 7 pound fee to re register the fine at tec so it lasts a further 12 months

 

This isnt a debt avoidance website so i really dont know what you expect any of us to say to you


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Didnt say it was did I so how about jump down off your high horse when you dont even know the full story! Already said thats a different ongoing matter if you read you will see!

 

So you saying a council is entitled to issue an incorrect Order of Recovery and claim on it when its wrong?

 

Thats the question I was asking!


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And where in the regulations does it state what your saying exactly?

 

It states It can be extended if it is applied for before the current warrant runs out! Where exactly does it state they can let the warrant run out then apply for a new one?


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Wouldn't think for one minute that a site that gives people the advice of hide your car dont let bailiffs in would imply not paying in any way!


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The councils can pay a 7 pound fee to re register the fine at tec so it lasts a further 12 months

 

Not since April 2014. The position now is that whilst the LA can indeed apply to extend the warrant for a further 12 months this CANNOT be achieved by applying to TEC. It is a far more difficult procedure.

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An Order for Recovery can be re-served (if for instance a new address had been identified) but what you really need to be doing is contacting the Traffic Enforcement Centre to ascertain the date on which a warrant had been issued and what date any PREVIOUS warrants (if any) had been issued. Unless you obtain this information you will merely be guessing what has happened.

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