EU, in or out..

[tobyjugg2]

I think that more of the issue is, will the EU want the UK on the UK's terms.

[obiter dictum]

The UK is in no position to dictate anything to the EU

 

They regard the UK as a minor irritation to be scratched, that is all

 

They pay little attention to individuals with a "Napoleon" complex and self proclaimed Demagogue status

[unclebulgaria67]

UK is important to EU mostly because of trade and contribution to EU funds. The City of London does a lot of trading which affects the EU and if UK left the EU, some of this trading will be transfered to Frankfurt or Paris.

 

What i want to see is a full analysis of UK in v UK out of the EU. How would it affect UK finances ? What difference would it make to UK citizens living in the UK and currently resident in another EU country.

 

I should imagine that people will be expected to vote without full information and will vote purely based on emotion.

[Conniff]

The UK is in no position to dictate anything to the EU

 

They regard the UK as a minor irritation to be scratched, that is all

 

They pay little attention to individuals with a "Napoleon" complex and self proclaimed Demagogue status

 

Funny, I agree with you. I think the Uk is needed by the EU more than the other way around.

It's some of us being more equal than the others that lets the club down.

[tobyjugg2]

UK is important to EU mostly because of trade and contribution to EU funds. The City of London does a lot of trading which affects the EU and if UK left the EU, some of this trading will be transfered to Frankfurt or Paris.

 

Good riddance. Means UK taxpayers wont foot the bill on the next collapse of the smoke and mirrors house of cards while the corrupt financial experts take their millions in bonuses and golden parachute severance and enhanced pensions to a tax haven and spend it abroad.

 

Make sure we take back what they owe us before they move - in gold not bank credit notes.

[Consumer dude]

There's going to be mass civil disobedience anyway, let it happen soon rather then later..

[Conniff]

Let's look at one thing in the news today, the Tampax tax. The EU says they are not a necessity. Obviously a rule made up by unmarried men or men who have never had a girlfriend and slaps a 5% tax on them. How disgusting is that and should have every woman crossing the 'OUT' box without having to listen to any other rubbish about staying in or needing any further prompting to vote out.

 

There are countless things like that above that can be cited.

[obiter dictum]

Tampax tax?

 

Is that the best you can come up with??

 

Besides the EU most other countries apply this levy

 

I actually agree myself this levy be removed but that is a decision for the EU Parliament.

 

Perhaps if some of our MEPs actually attend the EU Parliament, let alone propose legislation or even vote on such issues then things might change. Yet when some of our MEPs consider women should be in the home and not in the work place, and be a burden on society especially when pregnant, i very much doubt things will change in the very near future

Edited October 27, 2015 by obiter dictum

[fletch70]

IMO only a fool would think we are better out than in.

Too many people are swayed by the right wing press with their scare stories of floods of immigrants and loss of sovereignty . People need to be aware that we still have sovereignty , people scream about Human rights but ECHR and the Human Rights Act are not related to being a member of the EU

 

As for the spurious comment on the tampax tax, how did women cope before tampons were invented, the same way that we coped with Nappies and the same way that people coped without toilet role. they are just natural bodily functions although I have to admit i have never had to be bothered with any aspect of a womans cycle .

 

I for one will vote to stay in just as I would have done in 1973 if I had been old enough.

 

We need to remember that we are a tiny island, we do not have an empire and we are deluded if we really think we are serious world players . That doesn't mean I am not proud to be British

[obiter dictum]

Might i ask who removed my last post and for what reason?

[citizenB]

Might i ask who removed my last post and for what reason?

 

It wasn't just your post that was removed and I don't have to explain my reasons for doing so.

[obiter dictum]

In any civilised society it is customary to communicate where any transgressions has been implied . That is so any future transgressions can be avoided.

 

My Last word on the subject

Edited October 27, 2015 by obiter dictum

[fletch70]

Who said this is a civilised society . people here read the Daily Mail ( Sorry CB only taking the mick)

[Conniff]

"IMO only a fool would think we are better out than in.

Too many people are swayed by the right wing press with their scare stories of floods of immigrants and loss of sovereignty ."

 

IMO only a fool thinks we are better in than out.

 

Too many people are swayed by the left wing press with their stories of utopia and freedom.

[obiter dictum]

Left, right, middle ground media??

 

It is all corrupt and erroneous

 

The only casualty is the real truth

 

And people who refuse to even consider a different point of view

[unclebulgaria67]

"IMO only a fool would think we are better out than in.

Too many people are swayed by the right wing press with their scare stories of floods of immigrants and loss of sovereignty ."

 

IMO only a fool thinks we are better in than out.

 

Too many people are swayed by the left wing press with their stories of utopia and freedom.

 

IMO it would be unwise to take the risk. Some of the investment in the UK may be because we are part of the EU. The City of London does more Euro trading than the rest of EU financial centres combined.

 

I also worry about what happens to UK citizens living in mainland EU. If they register for residency, they get local healthcare, which is free at the point of access, as UK government pays the foreign government an annual amount, as we are in the EU. If this was no longer the case, it might force many pensioners who cannot afford private, to come back to the UK. This could means tens of thousands of vulnerable people returning.

[citizenB]

IMO it would be unwise to take the risk. Some of the investment in the UK may be because we are part of the EU. The City of London does more Euro trading than the rest of EU financial centres combined.

 

I also worry about what happens to UK citizens living in mainland EU. If they register for residency, they get local healthcare, which is free at the point of access, as UK government pays the foreign government an annual amount, as we are in the EU. If this was no longer the case, it might force many pensioners who cannot afford private, to come back to the UK. This could means tens of thousands of vulnerable people returning.

 

Surely that would also be the same for those EU citizens living in the UK, Uncle B - they too would have to pay for their Health Care over here or force those EU citizens back to their countries of origin ?

[obiter dictum]

I do wish people would research before posting

 

Any EU national staying in a different member state for more that 3 months has to have private medical insurance

 

This health tourism is simply a myth

 

To stay any longer than three months they have to be they have to be: in work; or actively seeking work with a genuine chance of being hired; or be able to show they have enough money not to be a burden on public services.

 

Article 45 TFEU

[unclebulgaria67]

I do wish people would research before posting

 

Any EU national staying in a different member state for more that 3 months has to have private medical insurance

 

This health tourism is simply a myth

 

To stay any longer than three months they have to be they have to be: in work; or actively seeking work with a genuine chance of being hired; or be able to show they have enough money not to be a burden on public services.

 

Article 45 TFEU

 

If you move to Spain for example to retire, you can register as being resident showing your pension earnings etc and once properly registered you can use state healthcare. If you are younger than pensionable age, if you are there more than 3 months, you cannot use the EHIC card. You are expected to register residency properly and pay into their national insurance system if you want to use their state healthcare or provide evidence of private healthcare cover.

 

I suspect Spanish Hospitals are more efficient at invoicing people where needed, than NHS Hospitals. You do read of many tourists to the UK who use NHS while they are here, reporting that neither them or their insurers were invoiced. I have chatted to Americans who cannot believe how relaxed Hospital staff have been in the UK without mentioning payment at all , either direct or via Insurance. The Hospitals in the US are very interested in payment almost immediately after deciding on treatment required.

[Capt Slog]

Out

[fletch70]

I do wish people would research before posting

 

Any EU national staying in a different member state for more that 3 months has to have private medical insurance

 

This health tourism is simply a myth

 

To stay any longer than three months they have to be they have to be: in work; or actively seeking work with a genuine chance of being hired; or be able to show they have enough money not to be a burden on public services.

 

Article 45 TFEU

 

Where exactly does it say that you have to have private healthcare. It is certainly not true in this country , and I am not saying that is good or bad. I know that for a fact as my Italian BIL has lived here for 15 years or more , and no was not always married to my sister. Requirements on health care and other forms of welfare vary from state to state . the spirit of the EU is that an EU resident should be entitled to the same welfare as a resident . Obviously there are exceptions, i could not go to germany on holiday and claim Unemployment benefit , mind you I am not allowed to travel to germany and claim UK JSA either .

 

The problem with Spain is that when people have accidents or are ill, they are taken to private hospitals and not state run ones, hence the stories of having to pay while in spain, I believe that the Spanish authorities are abusing the system to reduce the cost to the state run health service.

 

I do firmly believe that we are better in than out , that we gain more than we lose and that certain sectors of the media have a massive influence over public opinion but that is one of my crticsims of the so called democracy that we live in, how can unelected people have so much power over us.

 

This is a debate that needs to be had but it needs to be calm, considered and fact based, from what i see there is little useful fact coming from either side and we are being given populist soundbites that make good headlines but in reality have little impact.

 

I have no idea of the answer but I wonder just what % of the health service budget is spent on non british EU nationals and what how does that compare to the costs incurred by british nationnals while on holiday .

 

I actually believe that EU nationals do jobs that too many Brits think are beneath them such as working in McDonalds and other service sectors work . I was on another forum where someone stated that working in McDonalds was beneath them , a man of clear intelligence who went on to say how he had told the OWNER of an Oxfam shop to do something themselves .

 

All jobs have value and if we lived in a civilised society we would all have work in a job that suited our skills which would contribute to benefit the society. Come the glorious day all DM readers would be put up against a wall -conniff you can stand next to my mother

[obiter dictum]

Guys Hospital Trust in london makes abut 11 million pounds on transplants for foreign private patients each year

 

And to answer your first question it depends on recipricol agrements within the EEA.

 

The EHIC gives basic cover for emergency treatment

Edited October 28, 2015 by obiter dictum

[Mike_hawk]

My preference would be in for trade agreements but out for article 45........ I suppose the question is whether you can have your cake and eat it

[Conniff]

In any civilised society it is customary to communicate where any transgressions has been implied . That is so any future transgressions can be avoided.

 

My Last word on the subject

 

Left, right, middle ground media??

 

It is all corrupt and erroneous

 

The only casualty is the real truth

 

And people who refuse to even consider a different point of view

 

We can't take a word you say as gospel. You continually say your 'out of here' and within a hour your back boring us all with your biased attitude.

As for a different point of view, you Morning Star and Guardian readers can't even agree with yourselves.

[obiter dictum]

I was under the impression personal attacks were contrary to forum rules??

 

Only to a select few is it permitted it seems with those in power to remove or redact posts not to their own persuasion.

 

You continue to entice myself into giving a negative retort with your continued incandescent platitudes for which i shall not lower myself to partake or comply

Edited October 29, 2015 by obiter dictum