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There didnt seem to be a particular thread for discussion/debate re, though related posts elsewhere in related threads regarding. so, thought to start one up (mods do delete it if n/a).

anything syria related.

to start..

following russias involvement,

recent news report, whether accurate, re chinas poss involvement in syria

http://www.wnd.com/2015/10/chinese-navy-looms-as-russia-strikes-syrian-rebels/


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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Be interesting to see if the yanks get sensible or whether they try to impose no fly zones to continue to protect the radical militants being supplied by them and the Saudis.

 

If they do, I would expect to see a UN resolution to demand their withdrawal from Syria ... and Iraq if the Iraqis withdraw their request for US military support and deny them access to Iraqi space..

 

Its hitting the news channels that there is no 'free syrian army' with worse (for the American stance) to come.

The yanks may now try to use the Kurds - despite Nato Turkeys objections and actions.

A real visible rather than political split in NATO?


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

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Did you see on the news those syrian rebels being supplied with the latest AMERICAN made fly by wire anti tank munitions??

 

Things have moved on since my days with the Carl Gustav and the Milan.

 

You would have thought the yanks would have learned their lesson with supplying the Taliban Stinger missiles during the Russian occupation.

 

Just goes to show the Yanks are the real inciting agents in the region with todays rebels our friends, tomorrow our enemy.

 

With state of the art munitions

 

MAD

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seems that the US are rethinking their training for certain 'rebels',

'The US is to end its efforts to train new Syrian rebel forces and says it will shift to providing equipment and weapons to existing forces. Its $500m (£326m) programme was heavily criticised after it emerged that US-trained rebels had handed vehicles and ammunition over to extremists. It emerged last month that only four or five of the fighters were in Syria....'

 

whilst talks are due with russia, russia 'step up' their air strikes.

 

bbc


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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seems that the US are rethinking their training for certain 'rebels',

'The US is to end its efforts to train new Syrian rebel forces and says it will shift to providing equipment and weapons to existing forces.

 

 

It emerged last month that only four or five of the fighters were in Syria....'

 

Presumably those are the 5 that they will now be supplying ....

as no others passed the training checks ....

 

... Even with all the middlemen profits and payoffs, thats still 2 tanks and 3 fully loaded attack helicopters.

Thats 5 real mean men.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

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I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

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The reports of a Russian Fighter allegedly being shot down over Turkey should concern us all.

 

Get our stuff out of the region, let the rest sort it out.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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This can quickly escalate

 

If a Russian MIG fighter plane has been shot down then the hardware to do that could have only come from the west, that being Turkey, a NATO country

 

But it is only unconfirmed reports Turkey was responsible, if the rebels in Syria have access to the latest SAM missile system (Stingers) and the russians confirm that then all hell will break lose.

 

This game of bluf and counter bluf between russia and the west has to end. It is the west that is trespassing, not the russians

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You can't just keep warning. Dictator Putin takes no notice. If this is true, then take more notice of the warnings Putin. If this is in Turkish airspace, then retaliation doesn't enter into it and it's something he wont be able to deny.

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This can quickly escalate

 

If a Russian MIG fighter plane has been shot down then the hardware to do that could have only come from the west, that being Turkey, a NATO country

 

But it is only unconfirmed reports Turkey was responsible, if the rebels in Syria have access to the latest SAM missile system (Stingers) and the russians confirm that then all hell will break lose.

 

This game of bluf and counter bluf between russia and the west has to end. It is the west that is trespassing, not the russians

 

 

Could Turkey really be that stupid?

I don't doubt they would like too, but it could possibly be the most stupid thing in the world to do at the moment

 

If a russian plane has been shot down by Turkey, then expect Turkeys planes to be shot out of the sky's over Syria and possibly even Iraq as they bomb the Kurds rather than IS.

.. and what about US etc planes illegally flying over Syria?

 

That would put America and the UK in a very difficult position.

 

 

Its more likely that a helicopter has been downed by someone in Syria near the Turkish border.

The news reports stating the UK has OK'd RAF to shoot at Russian planes simply cannot be true.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

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The whole "Ok to shoot russian thing" is more than likely a twist by some junior journalist.

 

"Do raf planes have the right to self defence?"

 

Ye ssir

 

"Are they fitted with anything they can defend themselves with"

 

Yes sir

 

"Does this include russian planes?"

 

"If a russian plane commits hostile actions our pilots are trained to defend themselves"

 

Spun into

 

UK PLANES AUTHORIZED TO SHOOT DOWN RUSSIAN PLANES


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

 

The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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"If a russian plane commits hostile actions our pilots are trained to defend themselves"

 

Not even that.

It would be:

 

"Our pilots will do everything possible to avoid an international incident"


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

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And the russian pilots will be saying exaxctly the same thing to western pilots flying over Syrian Airspace when not invited to fly in that air space

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And the russian pilots will be saying exaxctly the same thing to western pilots flying over Syrian Airspace when not invited to fly in that air space

 

That is of course the big issue that western coalition force commanders and politicians will be seeking to avoid - although it may be looking a tempting option for them at the moment.

 

UN resolution

All uninvited external forces must leave Syrian airspace and land....

 

Any 'incident' will be justifiably laid at the feet of those not invited there by the Syrian government whoever much the west squeals about Russia escalating 'risk'

(what risk - the risk of ISIS (whatever they are called by themselves or others) being driven out of Syria as a cohesive military force?)

 

 

... and of course the recent claim by amnesty internation that the Kurdish forces are committing war crimes will be another blow to the western coalitions plans - as the kurds were a major part of teh wests fall-back plan.

 

Mind you the only ones not accused of war crimes are

Turkey - bombing kurd towns in Iraq and Syria

The west coalition - bombing in Syria where they have no right whatsoever to be, and bombing a MSF hosptal and towns in Iraq.

 

There is NO-ONE not committing war crimes.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

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according to recent media reports; Iranian troops supposedly on the ground with Hezb, with russian air strikes all targeting also all anti assad 'rebels'...whilst the US have further armed certain anti assad groups, Turkey also upset with the US for arming kurds......:fencing:


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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Anyone of the opinion that Assad and Putin have now won this game of chess with the west??

 

Assad has now got everyone fighting against his opponents, opponents that the west armed

 

Putin and Iran are only interested in that Gas Pipeline running through Syria.

 

Iran has the largest supply of natural gas on the planet in reserve

 

That way Putin controls the gas coming from not only the Baltic states into europe, but also the gas coming from the middle east.

 

What happens if he turns the GAS OFF??

 

It is not as though we are going to invade Russia, that Bear will bite back and they are not armed with home made AK47 either

 

While everyone was diverted by the media with Islamic state Atrocities and anti immigrant prejudice rhoteric, the real game was being played out

Edited by obiter dictum

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Anyone of the opinion that Assad and Putin have now won this game of chess with the west??

 

With what the west was doing, all he really had to do was turn up and play his hand.

... and he still has MAJOR trump cards left.

Yet Cameron is still trying to drag us into the cesspit, presumably only to take some of the flack for America, or to allow the escalation into really serious conflict (and I dont say that lightly).

Anyone who votes yes to UK intervention is either an utter fool or a total sell-out. They certainly are NOT serving the British nations interests.

 

Russia is the balancing force here, who will keep Iran and Hezbollah 'at the table' should the western flowers (rather than powers) decide to sit down and be sensible.

 

Russia has more in common with Israel than the US has with Israel here.

 

Russia has more in common with the western coalition if only the Americans would stop being arses.

 

Turkey is only in line with the Sauds and Kuwait and has ambitions and intent which completely fly in the face of both the US (giving them the benefit of the doubt) and Russian end game and has become more of a liability than asset to everyone.

 

The Yanks will now either get real or they will be putting both Iran and Lebanese Hezbollah on the side of right alongside Russia.

How unreal is that?

 

What the Americans have driven here has been a disgrace to the western powers and NATO and has already done major damage to the credibility of anyone aligned with them.

Just can't get much more wrong than that.

 

 

 

 

Putin and Iran are only interested in that Gas Pipeline running through Syria.

Iran has the largest supply of natural gas on the planet in reserve

 

That way Putin controls the gas coming from not only the Baltic states into europe, but also the gas coming from the middle east.

 

Large as that is, you aren't thinking big enough. Gas + OIL

The endgame could generate a real war if the UK joins the USA.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

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My own opinion is that Iran has been the real target all along

 

With Syria under the west control the Israeli air force can fly over Syria direct into Iran

 

Only my own opinion but Iran was included in that infamous axis of evil by Bush

Edited by obiter dictum

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With Syria under the west control the Israeli air force can fly over Syria direct into Iran

 

???

Is Iraq or Libya or Afghanistan under the control of the west?

 

The best the west could hope for is years of lawlessness, and Israel would NOT be on board for that.

Turkey wants al-nusra policing/running the buffer zone, and Israel would NOT be on board for that.

 

 

Israel will almost certainly be siding with Russia here, despite Iran and Hezbollahs involvement. Russia will be guaranteeing their behavior and support for Israel if they misbehave.

 

 

.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

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Talks continue, whilst the US now formally confirms deployment of a 'few' ground (special) forces.


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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Talks continue, whilst the US now formally confirms deployment of a 'few' ground (special) forces.

 

They said that with Vietnam

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They said that with Vietnam

 

They almost certainly wont put anything other than specialised troops down, probably with Kurdish groups.

Everyone else hates the Americans worse than they hate each other, even the ones the Americans are supposedly supporting.

The Kurds have little to lose - its probably only the Americans who have stopped Turkey saturation bombing them.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

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turkey and US joint assaults

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/americas/22030-us-turkey-turkmen-begin-joint-anti-daesh-ops-in-syria

 

kerry says that their (US) deployment is vs a certain group only, with saudi support. whomever they side with (apparently 'moderates') against, surely they might come into contact with those (eg russia, iran, hezb) which are allegedly targeting all anti assad's.

with the vienna talks on friday..


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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turkey and US assaults

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/americas/22030-us-turkey-turkmen-begin-joint-anti-daesh-ops-in-syria

 

kerry says that their deployment is v a certain group only, with saudi support. whomever they side with (apparently 'moderates') against, surely they might come into contact with those (eg russia, iran, hezb) which are allegedly targeting all anti assad's.

with the vienna talks on friday..

 

 

This was why Turkey got al-nusra to 'move out' of that region. I'm still surprised that the yanks have got involved there - they are playing a dangerous game of chicken with the Russians, and possibly further antagonising the kurds who have no liking for the Turkish/Turkomen forces in that area.

 

Smacks a bit at panic over the Turkish elections and desperation at having Russian and Assad forces back in force at the Turkish border region resulting in either Turkey neutralised or the risk of escalation with NATO raised considerably.

Surely they aren't looking to use that to drag NATO in?

It would more likely weaken NATO massively in the long run as a minimum even if it worked, which is unlikely.

Putin has all the cards for a game of chicken.

 

Can't believe the yanks are risking them + Turkey dragging NATO into a real western war here when NATO local allies (including Israel + Turkey) clearly have different goals to the Yanks.

It must be something else.

 

Stitching up the Kurds is a real possibility

 

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/10/turkey-syria-isis-kurds-pyd-ankara-looking-for-border-cause.html#


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

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i see what you mean?; russia etc pro assad, turkey anti assad (and anti kurd), US now helping turkey on the ground (US were/still are helping the kurds and 'moderates'?), Saudis want Russia etc out and support the US, Russia v US, all whilst the vienna 'peace' talks wanting 'official' involvement to remove assad...where are the UK in all this :)


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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