Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • nothing you can do can product against the very rare judge lottery syndrome.
    • not sure why you added the blue line I've highlighted? that's no in the we gave you.   as for your question... PRAC's roboclaim computer knows when the account was taken out, after all it raised the claim and checked everything carefully first before issuing the request via northants bulk courts equally inept roboclaim computer... 
    • I've been researching in preparation of compiling my particularised defence/WS.    I'm none too happy that some judges still seem to be siding with DCAs and seemingly brushing aside anything that we have assumed to be "necessary" for DCAs to have a winning case.    Reading a recent "summary" from another poster (another thread with case similar to mine - very old, illegible application form, no default notice, reliance on their own software to prove it was ever sent) and the judgment made in favour of the DCA and even suggesting that there was no "agreement with the DCA, they simply owned the debt, not the agreement"  Makes me very nervous.    Especially if cases like this will be judged on "probability" - the probability that if I signed the original application form, then I must have taken out the credit card and racked up the alleged debt as shown in statements enclosed in their WS (and dated some ten years later).   Is it ok to post some "evidence" I've found from elsewhere?    This is in line with my fears that regardless of how hard one tries to rebut the "lack of evidence" produced by DCAs for chasing these very old "alleged" debts, it does appear to come down to the luck of what judge you get on the day and how much they can be swayed by the DCA solicitor.    A quick Google search produced the following - from one case - this related to a credit agreement - which resulted in someone being made bankrupt - that person appealed the bankruptcy order on the grounds of defective credit agreement and default notice and this was the appeal judge's decision:   The necessary formalities for the entry into the regulated consumer credit agreement (which related to the debt in issue) were not complied with; The default notice served in respect of that credit agreement was defective.   The First Ground The Appellant argued that she did not receive the terms and conditions when she entered into the credit agreement and, accordingly, section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”) had not been complied with and the agreement could not be enforced. The agreement had been entered in 1995 and, whilst it had provided a microfiche copy of the front page of the application, the Respondent had been unable to provide a copy of the terms.   Despite the terms not being produced, the District Judge had found that, in the circumstances, it was very likely that such terms existed and would have been provided to the Appellant when she entered into the Agreement. Mr Justice Mann held that this was a finding that the District Judge was entitled to make.   Further, Mr Justice Mann found that it was implicit from the District Judge’s findings that she considered that the terms and conditions not only existed but had been subscribed to by the Appellant’s signature and, consequently, the requirements of section 61 CCA were fulfilled. Mr Justice Mann held that this was also a justifiable finding which should not be interfered with on appeal.   The Second Ground The Appellant also argued that the default notice upon which the Respondent relied did not comply with the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notice) Regulations 1989 because it stated the full balance of the account rather than the total of the missed payments. The Respondent argued that, as a result of the missed payments, it was contractually entitled to the entire balance subject to the service of the appropriate notice, a requirement which was fulfilled by the default notice itself and, consequently, the sum required to remedy the breach was the entire amount.   Mr Justice Mann agreed with the Respondent and the District Judge, holding that: “If by the time the default notice is served circumstances have arisen which entitle the lender to recover not merely sums which might be regarded as arrears, by which I assume is meant accumulated minimum payments, but also the whole of the sum, then they are entitled to claim that sum, and the sum to require to remedy the breach for non-payment of that sum is the payment of the whole sum due. The bank is not confined, at that stage, to claiming merely the amount of arrears if it has an accrued contractual right to have the whole of the sum.”   Do judgments like these not mean that a lot of what you guys do on here (and for which I and many others are VERY grateful) somewhat redundant. What is happening to judges just accepting "well, the terms must have been there if you signed it" -    Feeling quite nervous now.
    • we know it wasn't done to avoid enforcement we understand completely. but that doesn't take from away the fact that it happened   you can't appeal the pcn's on the basis that 'it was not his vehicle to levy upon'. the law clearly states otherwise.          
    • here is a question for you, is yu house divided up into a retail/business area  and domestic area for business rates purposes? If not why on earth are you paying business water rates? ceertainly not for tax purposes as you can claim any legit expense without having to reclassify your home as a business premises. i would be stopping this nonsense and goping back to whatever water supplier is the domestic one for your area. there is stuff all they can do to get the £40 from you whan you do that.
  • Our picks

northwestbloke

How do I enforce a £5k+ court judgement against Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance plc ***Paid In Full***

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 1458 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Hi, I recently brought a small claim online against a large insurance company (following a recorded delivery warning letter giving them 7 days to respond, which they ignored), they did nothing so when the appropriate time had expired I applied online for judgement against them, specifying I wanted the full amount, plus interest, costs etc, paid immediately (the original loss for which I claimed was 6 years ago). I now have the judgement as of 30th September, and confirmation arrived by post from the court yesterday.

 

The MCOL service show the next step as to issue a Warrant, but it then states that this is only possible for claims up to £5000. The judgement is between £5,000 and £10,000.

 

So, what would you recommend is the best way to get them to pay up? I'm looking for the easiest, rather than specifically the quickest method (though the quicker the better obviously).

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'm pretty sure "bailiff advice" will be able to help point you in the right direction


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

I am not legally trained or qualified, any advice i offer is gleaned from experience and general knowledge, if you are still unsure after receiving advice please seek legal advice.

 

 

 

GEMHL Settled

Barclaycard Settled

A & L SETTLED IN FULL :lol:

Spml Reluctantly withdrawn

Blackhorse pre 31-7-06 Demand removal sent 23 8 06. ICO ordered removal jan 2007....REMOVED:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try high court enforcement for advice.03330015100..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please tell us the name of the insurance company. Don't keep this all to yourself.

 

The best thing to do is to have the matter transferred to the High Court and then in force by High Court Enforcement Officers.

 

You will find several companies online which will do the whole thing for you. Check the writing carefully and make sure that you get a company which will not charge you anything if the enforcement fails. This is essential because otherwise if it fails, then you could be liable for the costs which can be substantial.

 

Move quickly on this. Don't bother to tell the insurers. Start the process immediately.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This one – http://thesheriffsoffice.com/is probably as good as any. Don't forget what I said about making sure that you only have to pay the initial fee and then after that it is down to them to make the recovery


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This one – http://thesheriffsoffice.com/is probably as good as any. Don't forget what I said about making sure that you only have to pay the initial fee and then after that it is down to them to make the recovery

 

This in interesting information. In my thread 'lending money to a friend' would this advice be equally valid to me ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This in interesting information. In my thread 'lending money to a friend' would this advice be equally valid to me ?

 

Yes if your judgment is over 5K.

 

Andy


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This one – http://thesheriffsoffice.com/is probably as good as any. Don't forget what I said about making sure that you only have to pay the initial fee and then after that it is down to them to make the recovery

 

What happens if no recovery can be made..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What happens if no recovery can be made..

 

Aborted fees payable by you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This in interesting information. In my thread 'lending money to a friend' would this advice be equally valid to me ?

 

Escalate to HCEO's : Yes.

Equally valid? Probably not.

 

The HCEO's will have right of entry to a business's address, and can take control of goods : so they can go into the insurance firm & say "pay up or we walk out with your computers".

 

A) they wouldn't have right of entry into an individual's private address

B) if there weren't assets to seize : you can't get blood from a stone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

northwestbloke, I suggest you wait and see whether they apply to set aside or to appeal. The order should say how long they've got to do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
northwestbloke, I suggest you wait and see whether they apply to set aside or to appeal. The order should say how long they've got to do that.

 

Conversely, if the order says judgment forthwith : get the HCEO's in before they try for a set aside!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your replies. What I received in the post from the court is a "Notice of Judgment Entered" - it has my Claimant details top left, and the claim number, Claimant, Defendant and Date in a box on the top right, then for the judgment details below everything it just states "In accordance with your request, judgment was entered against the defendant on the 30th September 2015." - the rest of the page is blank (except for a standard footer with MCOL's details).

 

So, there's nothing about "setting aside" or appealing the judgment - but please let me know what action the Defendant can take.

 

 

When I called the court service for advice previously they said that the defendant has up to 30 days to pay up, but I could still go ahead immediately and apply for a "high court writ" and I was directed towards the http://www.hceoa.org.uk

 

I also found forms EX325 (which doesn't apply in this case as far as I can tell, but worth mentioning in case it's relevant to anyone else finding this thread) and EX321 (which seems to apply mainly to enforcing orders against individuals, not businesses) and EX322

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex322-eng.pdf which refers to getting a High Court Writ using form N293

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n293a-eng.pdf

 

Part 1 of that form N293 is quite clear, part 2 is for the court to complete, but I'm not sure who fills in Part 3 as it asks for a High Court Enforcement Number which I obviously don't have yet. It also looks like I need to specify a High Court Enforcement Officer or I can just specify the region (so presumably the court appoints an appropriate HCEO).

 

I'm still not entirely clear what I should do next. It looks like either get advice on using form N293 or otherwise to employ a HCEO to handle it all for me (whilst making sure I'm not liable for any fees). Does that sound about right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally would send the insurance company (recorded letter, probably also an email) a copy of the CCJ asking when payment will be made and stating that you will send the debt to High Court Enforcement Officers if payment is not made by 29 October (i.e. one month from the CCJ).

 

If the insurance company tries to have this set aside later, proving that you have done this would reduce the chances of the company trying to say that they should not have to pay the enforcement costs.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for your replies. What I received in the post from the court is a "Notice of Judgment Entered" - it has my Claimant details top left, and the claim number, Claimant, Defendant and Date in a box on the top right, then for the judgment details below everything it just states "In accordance with your request, judgment was entered against the defendant on the 30th September 2015." - the rest of the page is blank (except for a standard footer with MCOL's details).

 

So, there's nothing about "setting aside" or appealing the judgment - but please let me know what action the Defendant can take.

 

 

When I called the court service for advice previously they said that the defendant has up to 30 days to pay up, but I could still go ahead immediately and apply for a "high court writ" and I was directed towards the http://www.hceoa.org.uk

 

I also found forms EX325 (which doesn't apply in this case as far as I can tell, but worth mentioning in case it's relevant to anyone else finding this thread) and EX321 (which seems to apply mainly to enforcing orders against individuals, not businesses) and EX322

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex322-eng.pdf which refers to getting a High Court Writ using form N293

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n293a-eng.pdf

 

Part 1 of that form N293 is quite clear, part 2 is for the court to complete, but I'm not sure who fills in Part 3 as it asks for a High Court Enforcement Number which I obviously don't have yet. It also looks like I need to specify a High Court Enforcement Officer or I can just specify the region (so presumably the court appoints an appropriate HCEO).

 

I'm still not entirely clear what I should do next. It looks like either get advice on using form N293 or otherwise to employ a HCEO to handle it all for me (whilst making sure I'm not liable for any fees). Does that sound about right?

 

Not unknown for companies to apply for set aside, with reasons against the claim and the claim going missing, so they did not have chance to respond.

 

You might want to send an HCEO to the Insurers to gain quicker payment and to embarrass them. I am sure an HCEO will tell you exactly what needs to be done in completing the paperwork and once the court has actioned these, they will take over enforcement.

 

But you could send the Insurers head office a copy of judgement asking them to pay by x date or you will elevate for high court enforcement, which would add significant addtional costs for them to pay. They may choose to settle quickly and then you don't have to mess around.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone. The 30 days is nearly up and today I've instructed High Court Enforcement, based on the recommendation of a solicitor who's been dealing with a personal injury claim for me (I came off a motorbike a few years ago, small incident but fractured arm etc). I had also googled The Sheriff's Office for reviews and there weren't many good ones (from the point of view of a claimant i.e. their customers). The first step is for me to pay the £60 fee to have the case "moved up" to the High Court by the solicitors that HCE use, then they'll go and collect on the debt. If they're unsuccessful they charge a £75+VAT Compliance Fee (both TSO and HCE charges were identical - maybe they're regulated fees) - although that's unlikely in this case of course, being a multi billion pound business.

 

I probably should have instructed HCE weeks ago, although it might provoke the Defendant to apply for it to be set aside and I'm told that the longer they put off applying, the less chance of the court approving such an application. Whatever the case, I can't turn back the clock and I've instructed as of today.

 

I'll let you know how things go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder what assets the head office of the insurer would have that the enforcement officers could take away?

 

You haven't said what kind of insurer they are or what the original debt is all about?

 

In any event be prepared for a set aside application from the Insurance Company.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

,

I wonder what assets the head office of the insurer would have that the enforcement officers could take away?

 

You haven't said what kind of insurer they are or what the original debt is all about?

 

In any event be prepared for a set aside application from the Insurance Company.

 

Quite a lot in my experience. They have artworks on boardroom walls often worth thousands. All the chairs, furniture etc.

 

They will pay up pretty quickly to save embarrassment.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wonder what assets the head office of the insurer would have that the enforcement officers could take away?

 

You haven't said what kind of insurer they are or what the original debt is all about?

 

In any event be prepared for a set aside application from the Insurance Company.

 

As I understand it, they can take whatever they want until they estimate they have enough stuff that can be auctioned to realise enough to pay the debt and their fees.

 

This relates to a non-injury road accident I was involved in with a driver whose motor insurance cover was provided by the company in question. I chose not to claim via my own insurance (though I notified them, as one is required to do) and claimed directly off the other driver's insurance company.

 

In normal circumstances it's difficult to prevent the other driver's insurance company from finding out who one's insurance is provided by (in order that they can deal directly with one another over the incident/claims), by virtue of the fact that vehicle details are required to be entered on the MID (Motor Insurers Database), but in my case cover was provided under the umbrella of an "any car" policy and whilst there is a minimum period after which it is mandatory to log a vehicle's details on the MID, in this case I hadn't had the vehicle long enough, so it wasn't on it. Hence, due to my large excess (four figures) and full but non-protectable NCD (which would likely also have meant a significant 4 figure increase to the following year's premium - unless liability was settled as 100% the other driver's fault, which he disputed), rather than claim via my insurance I set about claiming directly off the other driver's insurance company. They could have settled ages ago, but they didn't and I didn't chase it until the 6 year limit for bringing a claim was looming. As mentioned already, I wrote by recorded delivery and they ignored it, they also seemingly ignored the court claim, the result of which is that I now have judgement against them. They haven't yet applied to have it set aside and the next steps are to get the High Court Writ and then the enforcement officers will be knocking on their door (and yes, I did check their address to which I issued the claim was still current and correct, so there's no excuses for them not knowing about it).

 

Can they apply to have it set aside when there are enforcement officers present at their premises?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As I understand it, they can take whatever they want until they estimate they have enough stuff that can be auctioned to realise enough to pay the debt and their fees.

 

This relates to a non-injury road accident I was involved in with a driver whose motor insurance cover was provided by the company in question. I chose not to claim via my own insurance (though I notified them, as one is required to do) and claimed directly off the other driver's insurance company.

 

In normal circumstances it's difficult to prevent the other driver's insurance company from finding out who one's insurance is provided by (in order that they can deal directly with one another over the incident/claims), by virtue of the fact that vehicle details are required to be entered on the MID (Motor Insurers Database), but in my case cover was provided under the umbrella of an "any car" policy and whilst there is a minimum period after which it is mandatory to log a vehicle's details on the MID, in this case I hadn't had the vehicle long enough, so it wasn't on it. Hence, due to my large excess (four figures) and full but non-protectable NCD (which would likely also have meant a significant 4 figure increase to the following year's premium - unless liability was settled as 100% the other driver's fault, which he disputed), rather than claim via my insurance I set about claiming directly off the other driver's insurance company. They could have settled ages ago, but they didn't and I didn't chase it until the 6 year limit for bringing a claim was looming. As mentioned already, I wrote by recorded delivery and they ignored it, they also seemingly ignored the court claim, the result of which is that I now have judgement against them. They haven't yet applied to have it set aside and the next steps are to get the High Court Writ and then the enforcement officers will be knocking on their door (and yes, I did check their address to which I issued the claim was still current and correct, so there's no excuses for them not knowing about it).

 

Can they apply to have it set aside when there are enforcement officers present at their premises?

 

No as that would take time, but they could apply for a stay of execution to stop HCEO action. Pretty unlikely. They will just pay up, if they have not taken any actions already e.g already applied for set aside and will ask court to look at urgently


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks. By way of an update, the High Court Writ has been obtained and HCE have written to the company concerned giving 7 days (working days plus 2 days postage - so nearer 2 weeks in reality) to pay up otherwise enforcement officers will visit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the time expired and the job was passed to an Enforcement Agent on Saturday. When I spoke to him this afternoon he'd been looking forward to the job and was going to it as his first job this morning. On his way, however, he was notified that the Defendant had paid up in full. HCE have now confirmed that they have the total amount of my judgement, a statutory £111.75 (which effectively includes a reimbursement of the £60 fee I pre-paid to have the matter moved up to the High Court) and £80 in interest. However, they're bound to keep hold of it for 14 days before sending it to me.

 

It's fair to say I'm happy with the outcome and the process itself wasn't too arduous (it would have been a lot different if the Defendant had decided to respond and could perceivably have counter-claimed too). I'll reveal who it was once I've banked the cheque.

 

For now, I just need to dispose of the damaged vehicle that's been in storage for over 6 years.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent ...well done NWB delighted that this has been resolved.

 

Thread title amended to reflect your success.

 

Regards

 

Andy


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a quick note to say I received the cheque from HCE and it's now cleared my account. The legal department of the insurance company in question have since been chasing me to confirm in writing that the debt is satisfied so they can get it removed as a black mark on their record. I did email but had to put that it was subject to clearance of the cheque. I can't say I'm all that inclined to be helpful and quickly forthcoming given how slow they were, but all's well that end's well I suppose.

 

Anyway, I said I'd reveal who it was once it was all settled. It was Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance plc, Parkview House, Victoria Road South, Chelmsford, Essex CM1 1NG. The date of the judgement was 29th September 2015.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...