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1st credit claimform - LLOyds card - Defended, DQ/Mediation help


69Eyes
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Hi. I'm being taken to court over an alleged debt that I thought was unenforcable.

I'm not sure how to respond to the court questionnaire.

Brief Background

 

In September 2012 I made a CCA request to Lloyds and their DCA at the time (Robinson Way) over an alleged debt from 2003. My request was ignored. "You owe us money" letters continued to arrive.

 

In November 2012, I re-requested the CCA from them both, adding that I required a "legally enforcable original signed consumer credit agreement" before I would correspond with them any further.

 

I heard nothing for 18 months more or less.

 

Then, in 2014 I began to receive letters from First Credit. I ignored these, and binned them without reading.

 

Current Situtation

 

In August 2015 I received a Claim Form from the County Court Business Centre (the claimant was First Credit).

It required me to admit the debt or file a defence.

I realised it would be foolish to ignore this.

I gave the non-response to the CCA request as my defence (exact wording below).

 

A few days ago I received a Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track, accompanied by a Directions Questionnaire.

It asks about dates / locations for a court hearing, and also if I agree to the case being referred the Small Claims Mediation Service.

 

How should I respond?

Should I bother with the mediation?

I don't want to come across as unreasonable,

but in this case I don't see what help the mediators could provide.

 

I would like to avoid court if at all possible,

and I don't see how they can actually take it to court without having provided me with the requested CCA.

 

Defence in Response to Claim

I question the right of the claimant to collect the alleged amount.

 

On the advice of the CAB, in September 2012 I requested to be provided with a legally enforceable original signed Consumer Credit Agreement.

This request was sent to 2 parties:

·
Robinson Way (then dealing with this issue)

·
Lloyds

The letters were received (sent by recorded delivery and tracked), however I received no response from either party.

In November 2012 I wrote a further letter to both parties, restating my request and adding that unless I received a copy of this agreement I would enter into no further correspondence with them. I enclose a copy of this letter.

I am very unhappy about the continuous (frequently threatening) correspondence from 1st Credit.

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Hi 69Eyes and welcome to CAG

 

Simple to complete....

 

Yes to mediation yes to Small Claim Track...the rest is self explanatory......copy to the claimant... file with the court by the date stated.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi Andy,

 

Thanks very much for the advice - now followed.

 

I'm dreading the court / mediation thing (bit of a wimp eh).

Realising I will have to go ahead with it has filled me with questions.

I'm not sure they even answerable...

. but any words of wisdom from yourself or the community would be welcomed.

 

 

  • Is it possible to say what outcomes are likely from the mediation?
  • Is there anything I should do to prepare for mediation?
  • Have I done anything stupid so far? For example, ignoring the letters from 1st Credit (as I didn't CCA them directly)?

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so you've not CCA'd the claimant?

nor sent a CPR to their sols?

 

 

if 1st crapit have not produced any paperwork at all to back their claim up

you tell the mediation service that.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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" In November 2012, I re-requested the CCA from them both, adding that I required a "legally enforcable original signed consumer credit agreement" before I would correspond with them any further. "

 

OC already in default of the CCA request DX

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Just the claimant...send a fresh CCA request.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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when did you last acknowledge or pay anything toward the debt?

 

If it really was 2003 then the entire thing is statute barred so that will be your defence.

 

However, save that for the moment and get them to prove the debt.

 

As for mediation, you dont have to agree to it and you dont have to explain

why you dont but it may be prudent to say it is not applicable.

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The last time I made a payment was 2011/2012. (I didn't agree with the debt but I was ignorant, and the "repayments" were so low that I didn't get my act together and challenge it until then).

 

Personally I don't think mediation is applicable, at least not until they prove the alleged debt. But I don't want to seem unreasonable. And to be honest I just want to get it over with ASAP.

 

My current plan is to CCA 1st Credit, and then mention this, and the lack of response previously, in the mediation. I'd welcome any other suggestions if you have any.

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  • 4 months later...

I have been sent a court date in mid March - and have still had no response to my CCA request.

 

I spoke to the mediation group and they told me that mediation is not possible.

Because I don't acknowledge the debt, there is no opportunity to 'compromise' and therefore no point in mediation.

 

I would like to avoid court if possible (because my gf will worry,

I will have to take time off work to prepare and attend, and so on).

 

- Is there anything I can do to avoid court at this stage?

 

- And if I can't avoid court, what should I be doing to prepare? I have no idea what to expect.

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Yes, I did. I got no reply. (I sent by recorded delivery and have printed off the signature of receipt.)

ok

they cant enforce in court unless they produce something re that.

it is always open to negotiate with a claimant anytime, even if no formal mediation.

in a bit, could consider negotiating a formal repayment settlement on a reduced total (eg via a consent/tomlin order). that wld avoid a judgment/court provided payments kept to. if thats what you want to do.

maybe wait a bit, see if they come up with anything. if they cant, a useful point in negotiation. or defence! up to you. :)

see what the guys suggest also.

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ok

they cant enforce in court unless they produce something re that.

 

So do I actually have to appear in court and use that as my defence?

I'm probably being naive, but it seems daft that the court action can't be stopped,

considering it's unenforcable in the first instance.

 

I thought I would be able to bring this up with the mediation guys,

but then they said there was no point in mediation unless I acknowledged the debt.

Edited by 69Eyes
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So do I actually have to appear in court and use that as my defence? I'm probably being naive, but it seems daft that the court action can't be stopped, considering it's unenforcable in the first instance.

 

I thought I would be able to bring this up with the mediation guys, but then they said there was no point in mediation unless I acknowledged the debt.

 

a cca request to the claimant shld've been done initially,

and specifically mentioned in the defence if no response to it.

 

it has been held that court action can commence even if no cca request response

. but, the court cannot make any enforcement order ie judgment if its still outstanding.

 

if they cant satisfy the request at all, then they'll prob either let it stay or discontinue.

the latter being preferable. hence suggested wait as long as poss first before negotiating a payment/settlement.

 

yes, mediation is re accepting then compromise/negotiation.

ie a case of mediating on the basis that you owe,

but they havent yet responded to my cca request

so is not enforceable in court,

so to settle now i'll pay xxx etc

as i posted, negotiation can occur at anytime.

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Ok, thanks ever so much for your advice, really appreciated!!

 

Can I just ask, do you think I should be doing any preparation for the court date? Or is it enough to turn up and say that I made the CCA request and it was never responded to?

 

I'm wondering if, for example, I will be cross examined and expected to know the dates everything happened, have a coherent argument ready, etc.

 

(I do not acknowledge the debt so I don't want to go down the mediation route.)

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are there any court directions, comply with those.

in any event, to prepare your witness statement with any evidence to be disclosed prior to the hearing.

yes, a coherent argument ready.

if you're not up for court, or waiting to the last poss minute to see if they can comply, then negotiate either a full reduced amount, or payments on a reduced amount.

just to double check, have they not sent anything at all re your cca request?

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I think you need to remove this fear of appearing in courts and concentrate on beating the claimant before it gets to trial 69Eyes.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

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Hi again :)

 

I think you need to remove this fear of appearing in courts.

 

yes

 

concentrate on beating the claimant before it gets to trial .

 

and yes.

 

That would be my ideal outcome, do you have any guidance as to how I could approach this?

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Just read as many threads as possible ...preferably in the Success forum...follow the process..see what they normally slip up on.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

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Phew, found the document.

 

It doesn't really say much except for:

 

1. The time and date to appear.

 

2. Recommending mediation (which has been deemed inappropriate, as previously mentioned).

 

3. Instructions that copies of all documents must sent to all parties 14 days before the hearing. And that all original doucments must be brought to the hearing.

 

So for (3) I am preparing copies of the CCAs I've sent, along with delivery documentation (the 'signed for' signature).

 

The alleged debt / dispute goes back over a decade, so there are quite a few docs (mostly 'annual statements' and letters) that I could bring, but I don't think they're necessary.

 

What I don't understand, is why they ignore the CCA request and continue to bring the case to court. Doesn't that mean the case will get thrown out? Or is that overly optimistic?

 

Ok, I will check out the success section and see what I can find out. I know it would be good to man up and get over the court fears, but I'd still like to avoid it going to court if possible.

 

It's inspiring to see the success section is so big! From a couple of other threads, I am getting the impression that they may not file any documents with the court, and then ditch the case at the last minute.

 

So my plan of action for the time being is to:

 

- Send my document copies to the court and 1st Credit on time.

- Then enquire if they have done the same

- If they haven't, I will enquire to the court and ask for the case to be dismissed

- If they have... see what those documents are, and start worrying about it then

 

If you can suggest improvements to my plan, I'd be grateful to hear them. Otherwise I'll update the thread with developments as they occur. And ta again for all your pointers / help / advice / time.

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as you've prob read

I would leave filing yours until the last poss minute.

 

 

as for the dismissal..very rare

they might not even go through with the case.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Check your point 3 again ...closely...normally each party must also submit a statement...which forms part of your disclosure.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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