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    • Done.   I wont be able to send the SAR until the end of the month for TT as I wont get paid until then and I'm a little out of pocket as its my first month working after a spell of no work. Wil that be an issue?
    • Good evening DX100   Here is a draft of my response to the court order.  I would be obliged if you could review it and avise me if I am on the right track.   Defendant Statement of Position in Response to the Order of the Sheriff   The defendant suffered Severe Depression illness almost 12 months prior to the closer of the Bank account. HBOS was made aware of the defendant illness.  A Medical Certificate dated 15 Sept 2017 was handed over to the bank as a proof. (A copy of the report will be submitted exclusively to the court review) The defendant, with the support of her ex-partner, sought a resolution from the OC regarding the escalation of her OD account, which it was mostly formed of extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account. HBOS agreed to reduce the outstand OD sum to £XXX and closed the account. The defendant is confident that her ex-partner has settled the agreed sum with OC, but not absolutely certain, considering her health state at that time. She has been actively trying to reach for her ex-partner for documented evidence, but the fact that, we believe, he is a currently deployed by the UK military forces abroad and communication has been, to put it politely, very difficult due to the nature of his deployment. As the court is aware, the defendant has been trying to retrieve the data of her dealing with/from OC which it should reflect history of the above.  The defendant has already written twice to HBOS, as well as visiting her bank branch, on 01 March 2021, in person demanding the requested data.  HBOS promised to send the data to her as soon as they can. In addition to the above reasoning and contend, the defendant refute the claimants claim is owed or payable.  Due to punitive and extortionate fees the facility became untenable. Any alleged balance  claimed will consist totally of default penalties, punitive charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety and any alleged balance was due to punitive and extortionate charges . It is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-               a.    Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and Conditions at inception, which this claim is based on.               b.    Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.               c.    Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account and justify how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.               d.    Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.               e.    Evidence how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.     10.   By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Same thing. The fact that you declared £4.99 means that is the extent of any reasonable foreseeably consequence. Just go for that small amount. If they cause any problems then you can have a laugh when they spend many times more than what you're claiming in order to resist you. In future, when you contract with somebody – you need to understand that effectively it is an exchange of the reasonable expectations which you create in each other by your agreement.  
    • Current situation: contacted myhermes website's robot talk about the parcel and waiting for their email response. Thanks @BankFodder   I understand that if I were going to pursue under contract law, £4.99 would be the amount that I am entitled for compensate. How about if I were going to pursue this matter under tort - negligence? Would this allow me to pursue them according the true value of the items?
    • Hi UncleB, thanks for responding. I did call them back and it appears to be hit & miss with Devitt and dependent upon which Customer service agent you get.   Spoke with a very pleasant lady and told her that I, like them recorded all calls and gave date time of call and specific time at which a green card was stipulated in order for me to take out the policy.   *Two days later a hard copy of the green card landed on my doorstep. *Free of charge too.
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    • Ebay Packlink and Hermes - destroyed item as it was "damaged". https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/430396-ebay-packlink-and-hermes-destroyed-item-as-it-was-damaged/&do=findComment&comment=5087347
      • 25 replies
    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
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Need advice please, with Sainsburys for gas and elec.



After a fiasco with Scottish Power where we were over £1000 in credit, due to wrong billing



we moved to Sainsbury Energy who have admitted they should have taken £50 + £80 per month from us.

A total of approx £130.

They took £59 !!



Because of delay in changeover of gas - they couldn't find they were taking £50 for elec and £9 for gas

- they have admitted this fault - and said Sorry .



Now we are over £830 in debt, and they want £250 per month for 12 months to clear debt, or pay £830 off to start anew.



We have contacted them twice - and been ignored.



I am an OAP and disabled and was told

- don't worry

- now they want us to pay up

- any ideas as I don't think this is fair.



We sent email and now have a complaint manager who is phoning back Thursday



? HELP !!!

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Do you claim your Winter fuel payment?



They are only allowed to back bill for 12 months, nothing more, is this the case?


Sorry doesn't cut the mustard, if they have admitted they should have noticed sooner, then they need to take some of the responsibility for the oversight, I would be asking them for a discount of 50% to start with, exhaust their complaints procedure first until you either get their final notice, or 'Deadlock' letter, and you can then escalate it to the energy ombudsman, OR you get them to reduce the bill for the gas by 50%.


This will show good will on your part, and will hopefully show good will on theirs?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!



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A back bill is a ‘catch-up’ bill sent to you by your gas or electricity supplier when you haven’t been correctly charged for your energy use (for periods of 12 months or more). If your supplier is at fault and has not sent you an accurate bill, that they should have sent you, they will not ask you to pay any extra for energy you used (and which you did not receive an accurate bill for) more than one year before they issued the bill.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!



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Thank you for your help - much appreciated.

I have discovered the following:- We have made 12 payments to Sainsbury via direct debit - first was in Oct 2014. £9 payment for gas started in Jan 2015. We applied in July 2014 and changeover happened in Oct 2014 for elec and gas in Jan 2015. This was because they couldn't find gas account - yet before Scottish Power we were with British Gas ! In the light of the info how would you handle this?



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- yet before Scottish Power we were with British Gas ! In the light of the info how would you handle this?


Well that's a bit of a laugh, I see that Sainsbury's energy is effectively – British Gas.


I well, it could have been worse. They could have been Npower

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So you've only had a 'Gas' account with them since Jan this year?


And since then, they have been billing you £9 a month for it, until now when they have realised their mistake and are wanting increased payments?


How have you been contacting them?


If it's by phone then take it as read that your calls will have been ignored (unless YOU have been recording them?)


If it's by email or letter (which is the best method) then they need to answer why they have failed to respond satisfactorily or at all.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!



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Hi Bazooka Bo

This is correct,and contact has been by phone - us ringing them -

My wife sent them an email complaining we had heard nothing.

We have now been allotted a Complaint Manager.

She spoke to my wife the other day and wanted a payment of £500 against the debt of £840, despite admitting it is their fault.

She rang back by arrangement yesterday and I spoke to her.

As I am the account holder I stated no payment would be forthcoming, whatever she"agreed" with my wife.

I told her this would cause me hardship and she couldn't see why as she said my wife said funds were available to pay them the £500 - my wife denies this statement - and, I believe her. She offered a £30 good will payment which I laughed at she increased her offer to £45 - I continued laugh!,

I told her I would accept £600 taken off bill, (as I get a £200 cold weather payment this in my book would mean I owe £46) She stated an Ombudsman would not agree to that, and, anyway firstly it would be passed to their ombudsman department.She seemed very put out when this did not a/) make me cower with fear and b/) rush for my chequebook.

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As you have found out everything done over the phone is a he said she said scenario, they will always say one thing and do the exact opposite.


As for her comments about the 'ombudsman wouldn't accept that', she has absolutely zero knowledge what the EO would or would not accept, she's nothing more than a glorified telephone jockey who's only remit is to make as much profit for the company she works for and no doubt will earn a tidy bit of commission on top of her 'deal' with you.


Like I say, you need to get a paper trail of evidence together, be it letters or email, as unless you're recording your phone calls, then you won't have a leg to stand on, whatever it is they wish to convey can be committed in writing, so there's no possibility of them claiming they didn't say this that or t'other.


If you're sending letters then you can send them 2nd class and obtain ''proof of posting'' which is free from the PO counter, which will be your proof of sending them correspondence.


Alternatively email, but they will always say that they are unable to correspond via this method due to data protection, if that is the case, they may have a facility whereby you give them a password which they then use to effectively 'lock' the email until the password is entered.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!



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Hi Bazooka Boo

Thank you, I will pre empt her by writing to her and stating everything in writing only, I asked her for copies of all information held as per rules of disclosure and a copy of complaints procedure - which I have now downloaded.

Next step write for disclosure?

I have copies of my DD payments,copies of my energy usage graph - which doesn't show high enough usage to equate with their bills, and my email to them and her email reply stating she is "managing our complaint".

What noone has said is why they could not find our gas account when, as previously stated we were with Brit. Gas for years before Scot. Power, and Sainsbury uses Brit Gas! Incidentally she works for Sainsbury Energy.

I completely agree she is just a commission led DCA.

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Slowly slowly catchy monkey.....as they say!


Nothing is going to happen overnight, and as with all corporations who are simply in it for profit, sit back and expect to be in for the long haul!


Disclosure would be a subject access request (SAR) cost you a tenner but will/should provide you with the entire history of your dealings with them, and theirs with you, but you might want to be specific about exactly what Info you want them to provide, albeit the template states 'ALL', they can be very economical with the proof, so spelling it out in B&W won't hurt.


I am pretty confident though, with a few letters and a few choice words, they will see sense and will agree a mutual settlement, but ONLY if you keep everything in writing/email or record your phonecalls.


Sainsbury's are a supermarket, they sell produce, the only reason they've decided to get into deeper waters is to make money, when the mess it up, lets put them back in their box and tell em to shut up, do what they were designed to do.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!



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Received email which states the following

1. Admission of wrong set up of D.Ds which has led to account going into debit balance of £846, because payments were not set at amount we agreed.

2.They sent energy statements in March and May.

3. Admission we contacted them in April to request an increase to our payment.

4. Refusal to offer more goodwill payment.

5. Admission that we received shortfalls in customer service.

6. Admission D.Ds were not set at correct amount, payments were not increased when we requested in April.

7. Apology offering £46.45 for above - their internal ombudsman has agreed this is appropriate amount.


My thoughts are this is totally unacceptable I would think that we increase DD to cover usage from current month,state will not pay outstanding amount and let it go forward to Court action. Any thoughts?

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I'll be surprised if it will reach court!


When you say 'their internal ombudsman' I don't quite follow, who do you mean?


Is this the actual Energy Ombudsman?


I agree with you that it is totally unacceptable it just depends on how far you are willing to push it?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!



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Hi Bazooka Boo


The Ombudsman they refer to is a internal ombudsman team !! in other words yet another "customer liaison" team, not the proper unbiased independent Energy Ombudsman.

Therefore their opinion counts for absolutely nothing.

I am prepared to push it all the way. - in my view if it arrives at Court the Magistrate will take into account I have not stopped paying ( therefore I am being reasonable)

I am not scared of debt collection processes, I can handle that.

By the time I add reasonable costs to the claim it will cost them more than £600 and all this is without media involvement - What do you think?

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Well you need to tell them that you do not accept their response and wish to escalate the matter, as such you expect to

receive a 'deadlock' letter by return of post so you are able to have this investigated further.


However, thinking about it reasonably, they will no doubt say that you have been able to make use of the energy supply,

therefore it is only fair that you pay for using it, albeit that they were billing you incorrectly.


You ''could'' have topped up the payments, BUT I still think that the way they have dealt with this is wrong on more than one level,

I would at least expect a 50% deduction in the bill, as they were equally culpable due to their poor training and insufficient billing system.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!



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Hi Bazooka Boo

Always useful comment. Thank you.

Have emailed then today, holding them responsible for the whole mess quoting their admissions from their email.

Stated holding them responsible for causing the debt balance and amount is now in serious dispute

Stated we will be meter reading each month and paying our usage

If they don't resolve this matter to our satisfaction then we will require escalation up to and including the legislative process

We await response :)

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  • 3 weeks later...


My email was never received ! which meant complaint was closed!! I got complaint reopened, Case Manager removed and escalated upwards. Heard nothing and then received a deadlock letter today and first debt collection phone call.

I am pleased to tell you the girl said she was also a human being?, and if I didn't pay they would issue a warrant and add interest to the debt.I explained process to her in case she had lost her script and asked her to check her facts.

My next action will be to email the Customer Service Manager asking for a SAR, and cancelling their right of entry to my property, door step visits etc. That should start the ball rolling. Any other suggestions?

Regards BB

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Who rang you? The energy company, or a tin pot powerless DCA?


If it was the latter, then the next time they ring, laugh and hang up, anything they wish to convey can be committed in writing, DO NOT discuss financial matters over the phone, UNLESS you can record the entire call?


This is now part of your complaint to Sainsbury's regarding their use of a powerless uneducated debt collection agency, who has attempted to threaten and intimidate you by lying, if they persist then you will seek advice with a view of taking legal action against Sainsbury's for the use of such a puerile outfit to do their dirty work.


Escalating your complaint is definitely in order, but it looks like it needs to go above all of their heads and right to the top, will have to dig out the CEO's email address, as this is not going anywhere fast, by the looks of things...

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!



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Hi Bazooka Bob

Phone call was from British Gas Customer Relations who are now involved, rather than Sainsbury Energy - their debt collection department seems to be staffed by DCA rejects . I will get relevant CEO's email and send all info.Biggest laugh was shortly after Brit Gas rang with a survey !! says it all. Have a good weekend BB

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Not quite sure who it is you need to inform, but I am pretty sure that any one of them will forward it on to the right individual to take care of...


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!



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