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Penalty notice for incorrect vehicle registration on ringo app


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I'm hoping someone can help.

 

For months, I have been using the Ringo app to pay for my parking at my local train station (South West Trains),

which is monitored by CP Plus.

 

The problem is that, when I set up my account, I accidentally entered my vehicle type (POLO) instead of the car registration.

It's not very clear in the app. The field says 'Vehicle' and inside the box, in faint grey letters, it says vehicle registration.

 

On 10th July 2015, I received a penalty notice.

I assumed it was an error, as I knew I had paid, so chose to ignore it.

 

Then, on 23 September 2015, I received another fine and that's when I realised something was wrong and realised my error.

 

I have also received a letter from CP Plus (they obtained my details through the DVLA), chasing me for the first ticket.

 

I appealed to CP Plus with proof of payment (I had not realised my error when I wrote to them but I provided my proof of payment).

 

I received the below response:

 

Thank you for your email regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

I will offer the following comments as to why this PCN was correctly issued and is still payable.

 

My findings

 

The site in question is subject to terms and conditions, which are stated on signs throughout the area.

As these terms were breached on the date in question, a PCN was correctly and legitimately issued.

 

Please be advised that there has not been a RingGo payment for the vehicle registration,

-my registration is entered here-

 

What you need to do now

Please pay £120.00 by 14th October 2015.

 

What will happen if you do not pay what you owe

 

If the amount is not paid by the date shown above,

we will recommend that court action be taken to recover the outstanding balance.

 

What if you do not agree

 

Although any correspondence that does not provide further evidence will be noted and retained,

I cannot guarantee that we will reply to it.

 

More information

· This Penalty Charge Notice was issued under section 219 of the Transport Act 2000, Railway Byelaws section 14.

 

· If you are not satisfied with the outcome of the appeals process you can write directly to South West Trains

using the address below.

 

Customer Relations

South West Trains

Overline House

Southampton

SO15 1GW

 

What's VERY odd here as well is the £120 charge.

The full charge on the notice is for £80 with a reduced charge of £50.

So not sure why they are asking for £120.

 

I realise it's my fault (human error) but the fact is that parking was paid on both occasions, meaning they have not lost business.

 

Surely it would not hold up in court if it goes that far?

 

I am absolutely devastated to face having to pay a total of £200 or more in parking fines,

in addition to what I already paid for parking :(

 

hoping there is someone who can help me craft a strong appeal to have both fines cancelled.

 

I can obtain an appeal template from Ringo

and I have payment receipts I can provide for both dates

that state my car make, vehicle type and colour and payment card.

 

But any further advice of what to include would be much appreciated!

 

Thanks! N

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I expect the forum guys will be along later with advice for you. You're not alone in having problems like these, the guys will know what to do when they're able to get here.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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are you SURE that this says PENALTY Charge Notice

as CP Plus are a private parking Company

and cannot issue Penalties Nor Fines.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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no it doesn't

 

 

they cant use the words penalty nor fine

 

 

unless they are operating on behalf of swt which I don't think any station carparks are anymore

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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If I could upload a photo of it, I would. It says:

 

CP PLUS

PENALTY NOTICE (PCN)

 

and then a "PCN number" (case number)

 

Nowhere on the ticket does it mention SWT.

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upload

convert to pdf basically but redact first

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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"More information

· This Penalty Charge Notice was issued under section 219 of the Transport Act 2000, Railway Byelaws section 14."

 

Does this impact on normal advie offered to victims of PPC's?

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

 

The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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as far as I am aware no private parking company can issue Penalty Charge Notices on behalf of a train operator/owner

 

lots of threads here already on this subject with CP plus and railways parking.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?432886-South-West-trains-station-and-the-private-company-was-CP-Plus-Byelaw-section-14

 

 

post 7 is the bit to read

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Byelaw 14 is very specific and is a criminal matter so no charge notice can be sent out,

just a notice of intended prosecution and a court will then decide if you have to pay up as it is for trespass on railway property.

 

 

The parking co can act on behalf of the railway but not in this case,

they are just after parking money as a fine goes to the government, not them.

 

These bandits often claim they are acting in a certain manner

when what they are doing is bamboozling you into thinking that the money they are after is actually owed when it isnt,

this is just their pocket money.

 

 

You havent trespassed and havent caused them a loss.

 

Tell us the dates of the parking events and how this matches up with the demands they sent you

as they have to issue them within certain time frames.

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Attached is a scan of my second ticket that I received in September (front + back)

+ a scan of the penalty notice reminder I received last month for my first penalty noticed (received in July).

 

The ticket from July is exactly the same as the one attached.

 

Dates of parking events:

 

 

My first ticket was received 10th July 2015 (reminder is dated 15 September 2015).

 

 

My second ticket I received 23 September 2015.

 

 

Both times I paid for the day (for which I have receipts) so definitely not trespassed or caused them a loss.

 

 

I did make the mistake of not providing an accurate vehicle registration.

The vehicle make, type and colour were all listed correctly though, and parking was paid on my credit card (registered to myself - owner of the car)

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CP+ cannot issue a Penalty Charge Notice and then add money on top. They either follow the byelaws ( and make no money from it ) or try and get money

 

 

via a parking charge notice.

 

 

Please find out why, who and if the POFA was used as regards to your personal information being given by the DVLA;

 

 

[email protected]

 

 

 

Customer Complaint Resolution Team

D16W

DVLA

Swansea

SA6 7JL

 

 

 

 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...arging-to.html

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I will write to the DVLA and find out. Ideally, I would like to submit a strong appeal on the basis that I have paid in both instances. My hope is that, if they can tell I am well informed of my rights, they might be more likely to cancel the tickets. I'd really hate to have to end up in county court. They have clearly rejected my first appeal but not referred me to an independent appeals service (like POPLA). Would you recommend I write to them again, once I hear from the DVLA? If so, what should I include/request?

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Wait until the DVLA respond and also, as they havent given you details of how to appeal they have 35 days to supply this so the clock is running down for them. I hope you didnt say you were driving, that makes the PoFA almost irrelevant apart from the appeal rights andas they knwo you were driving they can ignore you at this stage and deny you your rights.

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My email doesn't state I was driving but I does state I had paid via Ringo and attaching my receipt in the hope it would be cancelled as clearly, I had paid. See below. Have I ruined any chance? :O

 

"Hello,

 

I received a penalty notice reminder in the post for the date above. This parking ticket was issued to me in error. I had paid via Ringo in advance of receiving this ticket - see my Ringo receipt attached (with time and date also clearly outlined in the confirmation below).

 

Please confirm you will cancel this ticket and all records associated with this event!"

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Their reply was the one I posted in my original post at the top of this. As you can see, no mention of a reference number. I just double checked the email. I know you have 28 days to appeal with POPLA so I was considering doing this. But are you saying the ticket will be deemed invalid if they don't provide one in 35 days? If not, I might be running a risk letting my chance to get a reference number and appeal expire? But if it does make it invalid, that's great news as I doubt they will email me one, unless I request it! And I could submit a similar appeal for the second ticket and let them respond without one there as well.

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No, if they dont send it out they lose the right to chase you. Each event must produce its own paperwork so they cant rely on one notice to keeper for several events. Can you imaging the propbelems that would create with a car hire firm? Exactly why the law is specific about this.

Now, about your complaint to the DVLA, how is that going?

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Hi.

 

 

It was sent and I'm still waiting to hear back.

I have heard they can be notoriously slow and don't always reply.

 

 

As for the 35 days, I have read in places the 35 day rule was discarded in 2013?

I.e. parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/popla-discard-35-day-rule-bpa-ltd-code.html

- if this is the case, I should maybe just hurry up and get a code?

 

 

My thought would be to write back to CP Plus, just simply demanding a POPLA reference number and stating I intend to,

not only appeal, but also report the failure to disclose this to me to the BPA and the DVLA unless the ticket is cancelled with immediate effect.

 

 

I doubt they will do this but I actually think I might stand a very good chance of getting these tickets cancelled via POPLA on the following grounds (separately, not together):

 

1. In both instances parking charges was paid in full, in the belief the parking was fully compliant with the Railway Byelaws

that CP Plus are claiming have been breached. Proof of purchase available on both occasions.

There has been no loss incurred to CP Plus, or their client South West Trains in either of these instances.

 

2. The penalty reminder received demands payment for "a total amount due: £120" with no explanation or breakdown of this charge provided,

which is extremely misleading.

The original penalty charge notice issued is for £50, or £80 if paid after 14 days.

No explanation or follow up correspondence has been provided to explain the £120 charge.

In addition to this unjustified chage, I could mention I find the £120 charge unfair, given parking was paid in full in both instances

and no loss incurred (proof of payment will be provided).

 

3. CP Plus have acted misleading (in point 2) and also breached the BPA Code of Practice by failing to provide a POPLA reference code, following their rejection of my inital appeal (email can be provided as proof). I feel unsure, making payments to a company, breaching BPA and DVLA codes of practice.

 

4. Signage at the location is misleading with regards to what constitutes a breach for non-display tickets (photos can be provided as evidence).

Sign 1 (photo) states that "A Penalty Notice for £80 will be issued / and or a wheel clamp will be applied,

if you park without displaying a valid parking ticket, permit season ticket or pay by phone authorisation".

 

Sign 2 (photo) states: "Have you paid and displayed your ticket? Warming. A charge notice or wheelclamp may be fitted

to any vehicle in which a valid parking ticket is not displayed.

All vehicles are parked subject to the railway byelaws and conditions and any breach may result in prosecution".

 

Sign 3 (photo) states: "Pay to park by mobile phone. No need to display a ticket. For more information and VAT receipts please see myringo.co.uk".

Definition of what constitutes a breach of Byelaws in relation to non-display tickets paid via the Ringo app is not made clear.

 

Points 3 and 4 might be pushing it a bit - I could omit.

Points 1 and 2 should suffice?

If I do hear back from the DVLA and there's relevant information

, I could include this in my appear also.

What are you thoughts on this approach?

 

I also forgot to mention: If you refer to the scan of the penalty charge reminder - nowhere does it mention SWT (other than in the parking location). It says at the bottom: "This Penalty Notice is being administered by Parking Collection Services on behalf of our client CP Plus Ltd." which conflicts with signage at the location - very misleading it could be argued.

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NO,

the code is valid from when they send it, you dont have to do anything.

 

 

Can you imagine the scenario?

They try and take you to court and the first thing you say is that they didnt give you a valid POPLA code

and you want the matter referring back to POPLA.

 

 

The judge would be livid his court's time has been wasted when there is an alternative that the parking co has signed up to and they havent used it.

It does not matter that the period has exceeded 35 days,

they are obliged to furnish it or they cannot continue to claim from you.

 

it is not relevant land so their tardiness in responding is down to the fact they dont have any right to chase you and they know this.

They rely on you fretting and then deciding to pay up rather than play the long game where their deceit is uncovered.

 

 

Stop trying to dance to their tune and let them spend their money.

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