Change of Circumstances...Full & Final Settlement offers

[bubbsie1]

Hi

 

thanks for such a quick response and good to hear someone will be able to advice me on how to deal with incredibly aggresive debt collection companies.

 

I am self-employed and have been for the last 23 years;

most of my work comes from one particular firm and for the last four/five years the firm have not been generating enough work, as a result my income has gradually decreased.

 

Stupidly over that period I have used my bank overdraft and credit cards to subsidise my loss of income, pay household bills, the mortgage etc.,

 

I assumed (wrongly) that work would pick up next month, the month after or the month after that; it didn't and last year my earnings hit an all time low.

 

In total I have just over £33,000 worth of debts and last October a friend advised me to contact The Consumer Credit Counselling Service, they gave me some solid advice and with their help I wrote to all of my creditors and advised them of my loss of income and inability to make the minimum payments on my acccount/s.

 

I sent them my income/budget/list of priority debts.

 

I offered them £5.00 per month and asked them to review this in six months.

 

Amazingly all except 2 of my creditors accepted my offer and some were amazingly sympathetic (Sainsburys my biggest creditor).

 

The 2 who would not accept my explanation and the offer to make reduced payments were Amex (total of £1092.00) owed and Barclays Bank (£5215.00) both Barclays and Amex have referred the debt to CSL and Newmans respectively.

 

Both companies are fairl aggressive in their pursuit of the debts and now one is threatening to send a field agent and the other a Statutory demand, and possible bankruptcy (for a sum of £1092.00).

 

A new expereince for me.

 

Some support from anyone with similar experience would be fantastic.

[maroondevo52]

Thread moved.

[Bazooka Boo]

Both companies are fairl aggressive in their pursuit of the debts and now one is threatening to send a field agent and the other a Statutory demand, and possible bankruptcy (for a sum of £1092.00).

 

The threat of a field agent (er we live in the UK not the US twerps) is usually just that, besides field agents, doorstep collectors, debt investigation officers or whatever name they dream up to make themselves sound important, NONE of them have ANY LEGAL qualifications to be on YOUR property demanding money, they are committing a tort of trespass and should be treated as such, so if one of them should grace your doorstep with the deluded thoughts that they are indeed welcome and acting within the law, tell them firmly and politely to foxtrot oscar, and shut the door, if they fail to leave then ring the Police 999 and report that there is a stranger/s on your property who won't leave when asked and you believe they will cause a breach of the peace.

 

So who is using the threat of an SD as a debt collection tool? Any amount over £750 can mean your liable to BR, however for them to do this it would cost circa £1500.

 

My issue is with them using the threat of a SD as some sort of debt collection tool, I would definitely be reporting them to the OFT&TS via http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/contact

Newmans are the in house DCA for RBS.

[Fred Bassett]

Hi

 

thanks for such a quick response and good to hear someone will be able to advice me on how to deal with incredibly aggresive debt collection companies. I am self-employed and have been for the last 23 years; most of my work comes from one particular firm and for the last four/five years the firm have not been generating enough work, as a result my income has gradually decreased.

 

Stupidly over that period I have used my bank overdraft and credit cards to subsidise my loss of income, pay household bills, the mortgage etc.,

 

I assumed (wrongly) that work would pick up next month, the month after or the month after that; it didn't and last year my earnings hit an all time low.

 

In total I have just over £33,000 worth of debts and last October a friend advised me to contact The Consumer Credit Counselling Service, they gave me some solid advice and with their help I wrote to all of my creditors and advised them of my loss of income and inability to make the minimum payments on my acccount/s.

 

I sent them my income/budget/list of priority debts.

 

I offered them £5.00 per month and asked them to review this in six months.

 

Amazingly all except 2 of my creditors accepted my offer and some were amazingly sympathetic (Sainsburys my biggest creditor).

 

The 2 who would not accept my explanation and the offer to make reduced payments were Amex (total of £1092.00) owed and Barclays Bank (£5215.00) both Barclays and Amex have referred the debt to CSL and Newmans respectively.

 

Both companies are fairl aggressive in their pursuit of the debts and now one is threatening to send a field agent and the other a Statutory demand, and possible bankruptcy (for a sum of £1092.00).

 

A new expereince for me.

 

Some support from anyone with similar experience would be fantastic.

 

Hi Bubbsie,

 

You've done all of the right things so far. Debt Collection Agencies are very aggressive but they are like this from a position of no strength whatsoever.

 

The first, second, third, fourth and last piece of advice when dealing with these people is do not speak to them on the telephone. You have probably already realised this. They have no powers whatsoever and the threats they make towards you are just that - threats. They operate by making people scared and they can only do this if they can get to bully you over the phone - ergo, remove their only weapon and insist on dealing with them in writing only. It's quite simple - if they ring, just refuse to answer their security questions. You can be polite and simply say "in writing only" then put the 'phone down, but don't whatever you do, let them get a metaphorical foot in the door.

 

I've had dealings with CSL and they are particularly nasty, sending letters addressed to 'the occupant' is one of their tricks, so keep all correspondence and the envelopes as well.

 

If you are a CCCS client then you really shouldn't have anything to worry about. Your creditors will not take you to court because they know full well that they will get nothing more than you have already offered, so stick to your guns.

 

There are strategies for dealing with telephone harassment, but there's no point in going into too much detail yet. Also, these people can not send 'Agents' your home if you do not give them permission and there is a template letter for dealing with this which I will try and find for you unless somebody gets there first.

 

It's easy to say it, but don't worry too much. So much of what DCA's tell you is garbage, but they are much more circumspect when it comes to putting it in writing, which is why it is so important that you don't talk to them.

 

Please don't hesitate to post up any threats you receive on here - but make sure you blank out personal details, barcodes etc.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[Mr Worried]

Try This

 

Mr W

 

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?410-LETTER-USED-WHEN-A-DCA-THREATENS-A-DOORSTEP-VISIT

[Fred Bassett]

Well done Mr W, I can never find the damn things!

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[coledog]

Hi

 

It sounds like you have tried to do everything in your power to try and resolve this and I am familiar with the behaviour of greedy DCAs in trying to use threats and intimidation when presented with a reasonable offer.

 

I have been trying to compose some words of advice but others have offered this already. You need start a new thread for each debt and deal with them. The AMEX debt for example - how old is this and can you challenge their right to enforce it? You can request a copy of the credit agreement and play them at their own game, don't let them threaten you. Is the Barclay's detb a bank account as you can challenge charges etc.

 

You can also report DCA behaviour and also the creditor who appointed them to the appropriate authorities as they should not be threatening bankrupcy or harassment when you have made a reasonable offer. Below is a link to Elsa's blog, a good place to start

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/entry.php?180-Debt-Threats-a-quick-self-help-guide

[Mr Worried]

(I will try and find for you unless somebody gets there first.) I WAS SPURRED INTO ACTION BY YOUR REPLY...Mr W

 

 

 

 

Well done Mr W, I can never find the damn things!

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[bubbsie1]

Thanks fred, positive advice is always welcome. So far I have had nothing in writing from them exccept for a card received today threatening to send an agent.

 

I have spoken to them on the phone but only to tell them I will not discuss anything with them until i hear from Barclays Bank; and I have said they must write to me.

 

My letter will go in the post first thing in the morning; and if any response is received I will post it.

 

More concerned with Newmans at the moment who seem to want to make me bankrupt for the sum of just over a thousand pounds.

 

I have had a counselling session with the CCS but they are not adminstering my payments; I wrote my letters to the creditors myself and arranged the payments, stupid question but does that count me as one of their clients?

[MARTIN3030]

Just to clarify,CAG has its own library for templated letters,which are suitable and have been painstakingly put together for CAG members to use.

We expect that members make use of these which are sanctioned and endorsed.

Please dont post templates which are not in the CAG library this avoids any confusion.

If of course you think that there is scope to improve upon or add new templates which are not represented in the library,we are always happy to look at any submissions for inclusion.

Thanks for understanding.

[jimbo45]

Hi

 

thanks for such a quick response and good to hear someone will be able to advice me on how to deal with incredibly aggresive debt collection companies. I am self-employed and have been for the last 23 years; most of my work comes from one particular firm and for the last four/five years the firm have not been generating enough work, as a result my income has gradually decreased.

 

Stupidly over that period I have used my bank overdraft and credit cards to subsidise my loss of income, pay household bills, the mortgage etc.,

 

I assumed (wrongly) that work would pick up next month, the month after or the month after that; it didn't and last year my earnings hit an all time low.

 

In total I have just over £33,000 worth of debts and last October a friend advised me to contact The Consumer Credit Counselling Service, they gave me some solid advice and with their help I wrote to all of my creditors and advised them of my loss of income and inability to make the minimum payments on my acccount/s.

 

I sent them my income/budget/list of priority debts.

 

I offered them £5.00 per month and asked them to review this in six months.

 

Amazingly all except 2 of my creditors accepted my offer and some were amazingly sympathetic (Sainsburys my biggest creditor).

 

The 2 who would not accept my explanation and the offer to make reduced payments were Amex (total of £1092.00) owed and Barclays Bank (£5215.00) both Barclays and Amex have referred the debt to CSL and Newmans respectively.

 

Both companies are fairl aggressive in their pursuit of the debts and now one is threatening to send a field agent and the other a Statutory demand, and possible bankruptcy (for a sum of £1092.00).

 

A new expereince for me.

 

Some support from anyone with similar experience would be fantastic.

 

Hi there

Don't worry about "Field Agents". These people have no more right to visit you without making a prior appointment -- which I'm sure you'll have your own views on that-- than a Venusian dust fly mite.

 

If they hassle you or turn up uninvited you can 100% legally tell them to Foxtrot Oscar in no uncertain terms and call the Police as well. There's a case on this site -- you'll have to search it -- which establishes apart from the Postman and people asking for directions who can actually visit your property.

 

In any debt situation no matter how hopeless it looks YOU must take control -- not the DCA.

 

With the people who won't agree to anything just first check that the debt is legally collectable -- get the CCA etc and then if it is enforceable challenge the DCA's authority to collect it.

 

It's amazing how many people just pay up when they see a letter from some ****** DCA saying XXXX has empowered me to collect YYYY on their behalf.

 

Maybe I should start sending out random letters to people on the electoral roll saying My Grandmothers Cat says Barclays has authorsed me to collect xxxx GBP from you.

 

Most of these DCA's are just like 3rd world tinpot dictators -- full of grand ideas but ZERO powers.

 

Incidentally for another time NEVER EVER send an Income / expenditure form to a DCA -- this is information best left for a COURT.

 

If a DCA refuses your offer of payment just tell them well let a COURT decide -- you will 99.99% of the time get a better deal --maybe as low as 1 GBP a month and then when your finances pick up you could offer say 10% of the outstanding balance to clear off the debt.

 

Most DCA's think people are in total fear of Courts -- actually often for this type of stuff hearings are quite relaxed and informal -- don't think of it as like standing in the Dock at The Old Bailey.

 

Once you show some aggro the DCA's will either melt away or comply.

 

This is a whole Nightmare Industry based on LIES, THREATS, EXTORTION etc. and the sooner it was SERIOUSLY and PROPERLY regulated the better with the nr 1 priority of BANNING all selling on of DEBTS for pennies in the pound while the buyer of these debts tries to get the TOTAL amount owed back.

 

The real nasty ones in this business are CL LEWIS plus their various offshoots although one of the firms in this portfolio -- CATTLES has finally passed its sell by date, RESTONS who call themselves solicitors and usually collect on behalf of HFC etc -- old marbles accounts -- and CAPQUEST. You'll see LOADS and LOADS of threads about these particular organisations on these sites.

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited February 1, 2011 by jimbo45

[bubbsie1]

Thanks Jimbo

 

made me larf......got some great advice on this forum; just spoken to National Debt Helpline and about to send CCA requests to CSL re: the Barclays overdraft and Newmans re: Amex.

 

I have a template letter to send to CSL informing them their 'field agent' is not welcome it does mention the 'Authority' you refer to.

 

After finding CAG I feel more positive about the outcome of these matters, however it is pretty galling when I wrote to all my creditors advising them of the change in financial circumstances. My aim was not to avoid my debts just simply manage them until my finances had improved.

 

Almost feels like you get very little benefit from being honest

[Bazooka Boo]

Sounds exactly like the time I had fair warning that I would be being made unemployed within the next 6 months due to a disability, without the prospect of ever being able to work again.

 

So knowing I owed the bank a substantial amount, Loan&CC's I went to them for help and advice...... Their very own financial advisor, advised me to take out another 25k loan to pay off the previous loan and 'some' of the CC's!!

 

You couldn't make it up, at the time I was unable to sign legal documents due to not having the mental capacity to understand what I was signing, but hey ho, that's the way the cookie crumbled for them, now they don't even get the token payments!

[bubbsie1]

Shocking but overall does not surprise me........... serve them right hope they never get a penny from you!! but what a **** off when you do approach them (as they suggest i.e if you have any prolems repaying contact us) no constructive advice or support even though you may have been a client for many many years. I understand they are in business but some of the histories I have read on CAG where families and others are losing their homes so randomly makes me want to scream.

 

Never encountered such tatics or immoral behaviour before as I have from the DCA's; this journey is proving a real 'eyeopener' Now I shall fight them all the way.

[jimbo45]

Hi there

Getting into debt can happen to ANYBODY and believe it or not the VAST majority of cases are NOT due to reckless / feckless behaviour on part of the debtor.

 

Redundancy happens -- for example loads of the UK I.T industry has been decimated by jobs being off shored to India -- thankfully that trend is now nearly over as businesses that did this have realized that the savings they expected to gain just didn't materialize and inevitably customer service suffers HUGELY as a result.

 

People die, get divorced, get ill etc etc. Banks take the risk when they lend money in the first place so they should be sympathetic when the borrower gets into difficulties. That's why interest on these types of loans is around 27% when to BOE base rate is still around 2%. They got bailed out HUGELY by the taxpayer and are STILL taking us to the cleaners too.

 

As I said before this whole STINKING,ROTTEN, VILE industry is based on LIES, DECEPTION, EXTORTION etc.

 

I see nothing wrong in attempting to pay off something since presumably the money was borrowed in the first place -- but the attitude of some of the lenders just beggars belief.

 

It's when people who can least afford it get threatened with Statutaory Demands, Humungous Collection Fees (RESTONS are big on these- often over 1,000 GBP on 5,000GBP debt) and humungous interest charges so that you WILL NEVER be able to pay off the debt that make people decide enough is enough and use any mechanism available to stop these people in their tracks.

 

 

Incidentally if people handled this stiff more compassionately they would get a HUGE amount more money.

 

BTW if ever I get threatening letters from Solicitors I always reply back to them and say " How dare you right in this sort of tone to me -- if you want to collect / or whatever please do it in a civilised manner such as "It looks like you might have a bit of a problem with account xxxx. Maybe we can arrange some sort of solution to this......". I WILL NOT REPLY TO LETTERS SAYING DEMAND WITHIN XXXX DAYS ? COURTS etc etc -- and usually ask them to say how long they would actually survive on a Public Street if they spoke to people using the same type of Language as they do in their letters.

 

Most DCA's and their ratbaggy solicitors aren't even worth using toiletpaper to reply with.

 

However if you DO reply to these outfits then always use RECORDED DELIVERY and NEVER EVER pay by direct debiit.

 

Cheers

jimbo

[coledog]

Suspect you felt a lot better after that Jimbo

[oilyrag]

Much the same guys. Ran into trouble after illness and the failures of the NHS (Stafford Hospital) resulting in a serious heart condition from the side effects of cheap drugs administered by the cretins. Mistakenly took the advice and spoke with our creditors in an attempt to reslove the issues in a civilised way. We revealed a weakness and they hammered us and hammered us. So we talked to proper solicitors in the end after a long battle to stalemate and now we pay nothing and will pay nothing, should they want to go court then they go, the legal ambush awaits plus the exposure to the courts of a serious covert criminal policy being operated by this particular bunch of nasties which is fomented and permitted by the very top people in that organisation.

 

regards

oilyrag.

[hatesdebt]

Suspect you felt a lot better after that Jimbo

 

Jimbo's posts are always great and make me smile.......

[bubbsie1]

Hi Jimbo

 

I agree with you entirely if their approach had been reasonable and moderate my response may have been different; but when you have some inarticulate teenage a******e telling what you can pay is not enough and if you don't pay up they'll take the next step your instinct is to defend yourself.

 

I've been self employed for the last 23 years; worked hard but due to cut backs in my field of work I find myself in this position; do they honestly think we want to have them calling, texting and threatening for money we simply don't have?

 

So now my CCA requests go off tomorrow via recorded delivery and I'll await their response.

 

 

Thank you for the encouragement

[bubbsie1]

The one thing that worries me is the threat of a statutory demand for payment, then bankruptcy which would put my home at risk. I know most caggers say it's unlikely the dca would do that due to cost but i am reading some horror stories on the forums where dca's have done just that.

[bubbsie1]

Hi Bazooka

 

thanks for the advice; I am unclear whether in bankruptcy petitions the DCA would be responsible for their own costs or does that cost pass to the debtor?

[coledog]

You have taken the first step in try to show them that you will fight this - many people just give up. A bankrupcy will cost them probably more than they can get back.

 

Find out their right to collect on this via CCA and challenge them.

 

You must ensure that you can pay your priority debts - mortgage etc . Don't give money you cannot afford to anyone else.

 

If this went to court, the court you only agree to to you paying what you can afford and is there to protect you. If it went as far as a Charging Order they cannot force you to sell your home

[bubbsie1]

Hi Coledog

 

thanks I feel somewhat relieved by that advice, just for my benefit if they did go to court, for bankruptcy or to get a charging order would I be liable for their costs?

[coledog]

Keep challeging their right the pursue this, await the CCA. They can pursue costs but so can you

[coledog]

I am going to make payments to Barclays and Amex directly; or do you think it might be better to wait?

 

Entirely up to you, they only have 12 plus 2 working days to reply with an enforcable agreement and if they do not, you can put the account in dispute. If low payments are not acceptable to them anyway, it might be worth waiting until they respond (or not) and take it from there.