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    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
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    • Oven repair. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/427690-oven-repair/&do=findComment&comment=5073391
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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I am not in favour of stopping any debates and to allow freedom of speech. But there have been a number of threads where debates have become silly arguments. The threads then get closed after they have run their course.

 

People are entitled to opinions, even if you don't agree with them. If you don't agree, then just post a counter argument or ignore. No point attacking someone for their opinion, as you are not likely to change their minds.

 

I am not sure political threads should be encouraged on CAG. It is principally a consumer advice site. The Bear Garden was i think intended for general chat about interests, current affairs. There are specific internet forums that cover politics.

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I find it annoying when threads are closed if things get heated and passions run high, "If they eyes offend thee,pluck them out" in other words don't read the thread, ignore it, if it offends.

Much better in my opinion to create a let off steam sub forum as a place to debate emotive issues and a place to move for posts in any forum if they deemed to be getting heated rather than stifle debate however offensive it might be, the right to offend is a sign of a working democracy.

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The fact is though that when a counter argument degenerates into personal attack then it's beyond blowing off steam. State your case, counter any points that are made that don't align with yours and move on. Unfortunately it's gone beyond that recently with people nipping at each other's heels to try to add weight to their points. It's at that point the threads ought to be heavily moderated or closed because this isn't a 'banter' forum but one for serious, adult, mature debate. Lose that maturity and we might as well be 4chan.

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You will notice of late that I have been trying to steer discussion away from personal attacks as much as possible however I work full time and often return to a thread full of bile that needs clearing out.

 

Whilst the sub forum idea is great in principal sadly emotions would not remain there. We already see that emotional conflicts cross threads, they would cross forums as well. So It is in everybody's best interests to not encourage an area where normal Site rules would not apply.

 

Also a gentle reminder, that whilst we try to retain as much free speech as possible, this forum is not a democracy :D

 

You have all seen and stated the answer, keep debates to the point and use factual information to prove or disprove. Attack the position a person holds is fine, just do not attack the person personally.

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I find it annoying when threads are closed if things get heated and passions run high, "If they eyes offend thee,pluck them out" in other words don't read the thread, ignore it, if it offends.

 

I agree fully, but there is a difference between passion heated debate and trolling.

 

Despite this hub very clearly not being 'a democracy' in Sabresheeps words, or 'fair and unbiased' in my words I think passionate, even somewhat heated debate should be welcomed, whereas trolling should be penalised.

 

The problem is what the dictators (its not a democracy) define as each will appear to be biased to anyone who does not agree.

If the site representatives get it wrong there will be very little intelligent debate here, or debate by very few people.

 

I would think if it was 'got right' a site of this size age and expected prominence should have hundreds of active debaters with opinions. If the 'site' practice and policy has got it wrong, there would just be a few handfuls of people, if they get it really wrong, there would only be a handful.

 

 

 

addendum

I think too many threads are closed before they have actually run their course, seemingly based on (more excused by) undressed trolling of the thread rather than the thread or even issue actually having run its course unclebulgaria.


Handcock alleges there are 240,000 tests every day - Yet figures show only 60-80,000 people a day are tested

... So whats happening to the other 160,000+ tests a day?

Why the populist problem with customs checks to cross the Irish sea to meet International agreements and Law

... when Johnson is happy to implement Border + Visas to access Kent?

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris 'The Liar' Johnsons word is not worth the paper its written on

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Problem is that any political threads will attract trolls, who don't want a debate, but to simply try to insist that their view must be correct. They then get annoyed when this does not happen, threads go on and on, covering the same points.

 

The question is probably wrong in mentioning ban, but do people want the Bear Garden to be a politics free zone ?

 

If there is a way of setting up a thread with a poll, perhaps people can vote.

 

I don't personally mind political debate, but many people don't like it or would prefer there to be places which are politics free.

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I agree that some threads are closed before they're at a natural end but the issue, as you quite rightly point out, is those that choose to troll through a thread and openly mock and abuse others. In my most humble of opinion, it's the rooting out of those few users that will prevent any such ban or need for excessive moderation. Some of the other forums I use utilise a warning system (which CAG may also, I've not seen it) and then pre-moderation of posts for persistent offenders.

 

You're also right on the number of contributors, the one thing that always strikes me is the number of visitors to the site in comparison with registered users. Quite how we convince those 'lurking' in the background to sign up and join in is a matter for further discussion.

 

The other issue we face is mass political apathy, most people just don't care or know about politics; conversely those that do hold very strong opinions and beliefs. We've seen it in the last week with some of the posts that were quickly brought to a conclusion that even site team members will hold and post about their opinions in a manner that may inflame others, it's then dealing with the fall-out as tempers flare beyond sensible debate that has to be the most challenging aspect.

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Problem is that any political threads will attract trolls, who don't want a debate, but to simply try to insist that their view must be correct. They then get annoyed when this does not happen, threads go on and on, covering the same points.

 

Which gives limited options

 

Ban political debate (define political debate, define issues without a political element, define a political opinion post)

 

Close the thread (the trolls say hahahahaha - and continue what they are doing - everyone else leaves)

 

Just Delete 'troll' posts (Staff are biased dictators - and not just by trolls - and some undoubtedly are in my view (LOL))

 

Warn trolls, warning flag troll posts and make them amend them (flag remains on amended post showing who trolls in staff opinion) - (awkward, a lot of staff work, - but perhaps the best option longterm)

 

 

Why should staff NOT take the easy option of just deleting posts they (or they and a pal) dont like:

A site like this depends on financial support, which relies on commitment, gratitude and/or good will of donators, which is unquestionably increased by involvement with the site and decreased by thinking a site is a biased platform for a limited few.

... Else where is the justification for this site to be considered any better or more than (or even as effective as) any 'ask' site?

 

 

qualifier:

"and decreased by thinking a site is a biased platform for a limited few."

 

- unless the limited few are funding it of course


Handcock alleges there are 240,000 tests every day - Yet figures show only 60-80,000 people a day are tested

... So whats happening to the other 160,000+ tests a day?

Why the populist problem with customs checks to cross the Irish sea to meet International agreements and Law

... when Johnson is happy to implement Border + Visas to access Kent?

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris 'The Liar' Johnsons word is not worth the paper its written on

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Which gives limited options

 

Ban political debate (define political debate, define issues without a political element, define a political opinion post)

 

Close the thread (the trolls say hahahahaha - and continue what they are doing - everyone else leaves)

 

Just Delete 'troll' posts (Staff are biased dictators - and not just by trolls - and some undoubtedly are in my view (LOL))

 

Warn trolls, warning flag troll posts and make them amend them (flag remains on amended post showing who trolls in staff opinion) - (awkward, a lot of staff work, - but perhaps the best option longterm)

 

 

Why should staff NOT take the easy option of just deleting posts they (or they and a pal) dont like:

A site like this depends on financial support, which relies on commitment, gratitude and/or good will of donators, which is unquestionably increased by involvement with the site and decreased by thinking a site is a biased platform for a limited few.

... Else where is the justification for this site to be considered any better or more than (or even as effective as) any 'ask' site?

 

 

qualifier:

"and decreased by thinking a site is a biased platform for a limited few."

 

- unless the limited few are funding it of course

 

"staff" as you so quaintly identify moderators are unpaid volunteers - they also have their own day jobs/families/ lives. They do not need to spend what time they do have for CAG refereeing posters who want to rant and squash debate with their one liners or personal abuse. Nor do they need to accept some of the rather unfair accusations levelled at them.

 

Deleting posts or closing threads is usually a last option and we do not take any pleasure from doing it at all.

 

The Bear Garden has always been allowed a bit more leeway in what is posted - however it would seem that some members are starting to take advantage of that.

 

When disruptive posts carry over onto regular threads, frightening off those who come here for help then they will be unapproved/deleted and the poster warned/banned.

 

I would like to think that some of the rather aggressive posting in the Bear Garden is not typical of the poster and that they are simply taking advantage of the anonymity of the forums.

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Slippery slope. Once people start posting political stuff, it gets noticed and it attracts more people. CAG might prefer to avoid. Means more moderator time and takes away from CAG being about consumer advice.

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Slippery slope. Once people start posting political stuff, it gets noticed and it attracts more people. CAG might prefer to avoid. Means more moderator time and takes away from CAG being about consumer advice.

 

Valid point, and if that is the site admins view it seems the bear garden should be removed or anything judged a 'political thread' should be immediately deleted without explanation,

else we are back to post 8.

 

 

... mind you - aren't consumer rights a political issue?


Handcock alleges there are 240,000 tests every day - Yet figures show only 60-80,000 people a day are tested

... So whats happening to the other 160,000+ tests a day?

Why the populist problem with customs checks to cross the Irish sea to meet International agreements and Law

... when Johnson is happy to implement Border + Visas to access Kent?

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris 'The Liar' Johnsons word is not worth the paper its written on

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When disruptive posts carry over onto regular threads, frightening off those who come here for help then they will be unapproved/deleted and the poster warned/banned.

 

As they should be in my opinion if that black and white.

 

I haven't seen any real examples of that occurring as a practice (the trolling other threads outside of bear garden), so I can perhaps assume that the squashing of them must be occurring very effectively.

I do appear to be very recently seeing a drop in the 'one liner' blatantly (in my view) disruptive posts.

 

I have seen some very questionable 'advice' posted in various threads by none-staff (I use 'staff' intended to mean 'official' representatives of this site), but have only really noticed dx and bankfodder actually challenge some of those. Of course I haven't read or even glanced at anything like all posts.

Even my own personal opinion on whether those dubious/clearly incorrect 'advice' posts should be deleted or at least flagged is very unclear to me.


Handcock alleges there are 240,000 tests every day - Yet figures show only 60-80,000 people a day are tested

... So whats happening to the other 160,000+ tests a day?

Why the populist problem with customs checks to cross the Irish sea to meet International agreements and Law

... when Johnson is happy to implement Border + Visas to access Kent?

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris 'The Liar' Johnsons word is not worth the paper its written on

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Obvious incorrect advice posts should surely be challenged - in my knowledge area I'm happy to correct or even be corrected if I'm not up to date on something.

 

Regarding political debate - I enjoy debate BUT there are people who post who have no idea how to debate, they just want to ram their views home and will belittle other posters, engage in personal attacks along the way. They don't explain or back up their points. I'm curious and interested in how people who have views different to mine come to hold those views and what sources they use etc.

 

But this is not how debate happens on the forum.

We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office ~ Aesop

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Obvious incorrect advice posts should surely be challenged - in my knowledge area I'm happy to correct or even be corrected if I'm not up to date on something.

 

Regarding political debate - I enjoy debate BUT there are people who post who have no idea how to debate, they just want to ram their views home and will belittle other posters, engage in personal attacks along the way. They don't explain or back up their points. I'm curious and interested in how people who have views different to mine come to hold those views and what sources they use etc.

 

But this is not how debate happens on the forum.

 

I agree and I keep saying it.

Attack the position not the person. Back your point up with evidence.

Discredit others evidence by all means but use only other sources of information to do so.

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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I'm all for debate, but my reason for staying on cag and volunteering for so long is because I want to be a part of helping people with their problems. I don't want to spend my leisure time refereeing people who don't seem able to have a debate without turning it into a slanging match.

 

I'm all for free speech, debate, discussion and you'll rarely see me moderate posts or close threads, but neither will I tolerate abuse.

 

That said if someone is facing court tomorrow or about to lose their home, then I won't be wasting my time breaking up squabbles in the bear garden if people can't walk away and ignore trolls who are winding them up.

 

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Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

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:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I'm all for debate, but my reason for staying on cag and volunteering for so long is because I want to be a part of helping people with their problems. I don't want to spend my leisure time refereeing people who don't seem able to have a debate without turning it into a slanging match.

 

I'm all for free speech, debate, discussion and you'll rarely see me moderate posts or close threads, but neither will I tolerate abuse.

 

That said if someone is facing court tomorrow or about to lose their home, then I won't be wasting my time breaking up squabbles in the bear garden if people can't walk away and ignore trolls who are winding them up.

 

:clap2: Well said.

 

 

:argue: Argue No Debate Yes.

 

 

:gossip: Gossip Yes.

 

I am out of here. :peep:

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Fun yes! Politics NO! Games, YES, argue, NO

R.I.P my beautiful grey ghost, gone but never forgotten, taken so suddenly, 04/07/2004 ~ ~ 02/03/2017

Gone but never forgotten,Little Miss Sunshine, Alisha Marie. 15/12/2005 ~ ~ 13/02/2006

Our  beloved Dalmatian Jazz,  gone to join Wal at Rainbow Bridge, hope you are now pain free .  20/9/2005 ~ ~ 24/3/2019

 

 

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