Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • I've inserted their poc re:your.. 1 ..they did send 2 paploc's  3. neither the agreement nor default is mentioned in their 2.        
    • Hi Guys, i read a fair few threads and saw a lot of similar templates being used. i liked this one below and although i could elaborate on certain things (they ignored my CCA and sent 2 PAPs etc etc) , am i right in that at this stage keep it short? If thats the case i cant see what i need to add/change about this one   1)   the defendant entered into a consumer credit act 1974 regulated agreements vanquis under account reference xxxxxxx 2)   The defendant failed to maintain the required payment, arrears began to accrue 3)   The agreement was later assigned to the claimant on 29 September 2017 and notice given to the defendant 4)   Despite repeated requests for payment, the sum of 2247.91 remains due outstanding And the claimant claims a)The said sum of £2247.91 b)The interest pursuant to S 69 county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of issue, accruing at a daily rate of £xxxx, but limited to one year,  being £xxxx c)Costs   Defence:   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   2. The Claimant claims £2247.91 is owed under a regulated consumer credit account under reference xxxxxxx. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant and the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request who are yet to fully comply.   3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or any default notice served in breach of any defaulted payments. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied.The Defendant contends that no notice of assignment pursuant to s.136 of the Law of Property Act & s.82 A of the CCA1974 has ever been served by the Claimant as alleged or at all.   5. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and © show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   6. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and also my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.   7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  
    • i understand. Just be aware I am prepared to take some risks 😉
    • Thanks Tnook,   Bear with us while we discuss this behind the scenes - we want you to win just as much as you do but we want to find the right balance between maximising your claim without risking too much in court fees, and in possible court costs awarded to the defendant bank.
    • Tell your son and think on this. He can pay the £160  and have no further worries from them. If he read POFA  Scedule 4 he would find out that if he went to Court and lost which is unlikely on two counts at least [1] they don't do Court and 2] they know they would lose in Court] the most he would be liable to pay them is £100 or whatever the amount on the sign says. He is not liable for the admin charges as that only applies to the driver-perhaps.If he kept his nerve, he would find out that he does not owe them a penny and that applies to the driver as well. But we do need to see the signage at the entrance to the car park and around the car park as well as any T&Cs on the payment meter if there is one. He alone has to work out whether it is worth taking a few photographs to help avoid paying a single penny to these crooks as well as receiving letters threatening him with Court , bailiffs  etc trying to scare him into paying money he does not owe. They know they cannot take him to Court. They know he does not owe them a penny. But they are hoping he does not know so he pays them. If he does decide to pay, tell him to wait as eventually as a last throw of the dice they play Mister Nice Guy and offer a reduction. Great. Whatever he pays them it will be far more than he owes as their original PCN is worthless. Read other threads where our members have been ticketed for not having a permit. [We know so little about the situation that we do not know if he has a permit and forgot to display it. ]
  • Our picks

McGoo72

Ordinary Cause Summons from Cabot / Optima Legal for £25k BoS loan

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 1125 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

My action was summary cause and not ordinary cause, so this is a bit more formal and my worry would be falling foul of procedure with a stuffy sheriff.

 

You will have to lodge an objection to the motion.

 

But first thing I would do today is see if there is a in court adviser/s solicitor with the Citizens Advice. Also try Falkirk Community Advice Service 01324 659 391. They may appear for you but certainly will help at the least keep you procedurally right and draft any forms.

 

You probably qualify for legal aid so could be worthwhile speaking with a solicitor,but bear in mind they make money by going to court not by getting something dismissed at the first opportunity! So I would do my perry mason bit first and try to get it dismissed but fall back upon them if it goes to the full hearing next year.

 

Right if it were me I would through the dice here and still try to get this thrown out, so would lodge an objection to the motion. Being ordinary cause you may have to lodge a written motion rather than ask for a motion if it it were summary cause. This is where the advice will be helpful.

 

There may be some on here that can help explain and draftt what you need.

 

So you need to download form G9a or G9 from here

 

Copy the court details as per the summons received court, date, names etc. and email to court an coy in optima.

Check with the court as you will have a hearing for this motion to be heard.

 

At this hearing, and this is where the advice is needed, in my bag i would have a G6 form completed with a motion to dismiss.

 

The points which I would make in a cohesive statement are the following

 

1) Under the consumer Consumer Credit Act 1974 sections 77-79 a debtor if supplied a request in the correct form must provide documentation relating to the loan within 12 working days failing which the debt can not be enforced in law.

2) This 12 day period has passed and this debt is not enforceable under the provisions of the act.

3) Cabot are not the original lender, you have had no dealings with them.

4) There has been no correspondence from Cabot, you have received no correspondence from the original lender

5) No deed of assignation has been supplied again required under the act.

6) It is clear that the response to your CCA request Cabot do not have this paperwork.

7) It is therefor unclear whether they do hold any rights to this debt.

8) Cabot have chosen to bring this claim to court without having any papers, they can not be in a position to know if they have any claim in law.

9) Their solicitors would have advised them the court has three options to sist, adjourn or dismiss the claim.

10) You crave the court to dismiss the claim as clearly the Cabot brought the claim to court when it has no legal foundation to be heard. In failing to comply under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sections 77-79 the matter can not be heard until they have complied.

 

I would explain verbally that there is no looming time bar impediment should the pursuer find the documentation and be in a position to present their claim to a court they would be free to do so.

 

If the sheriff is not minded to dismiss then ask for a short adjournment rather than a sist to allow the pursuer to get the paperwork but if they failed to do so you would request the court dismiss the matter at that time should they fail to do so.

 

 

 

So at the hearing on the motion let them speak and then you speak when asked to do so. Explain that this is all very stressful and that having a matter resting in court hanging over you when the pursuer can demonstrate no legal claim is unfair. You are unsure upon procedure (even if you are just play act) but you would ask the court to dismiss, you have a motion (take three copies) give one to the clerk and one to their solicitor. When you hand it over say you hope it is drafted correctly. I would then mutter just as the sheriff finishes reading that it can't be the case as a layman something be brought to court which legally it should and the court not agree with the defender as it is upto the pursuer to prove their claims and it is not for you to disprove. They are unable to do so, knew they were unable to do so and knew the risks.

 

Now let it hang in the air and see what the reaction is by the Sheriff.

 

 

Two things your motion to dismiss may be heard at the sist hearing or you may have to wait to the options hearing. That is what I am unclear on. So if you get the advice you will know but even if you don't be prepared for both options.

 

My thoughts are that even if it is not dismissed it can only be sisted or adjourned. At this point I have not lodged a defence, I have not lost any legal argument or foundation, I have not aided or weakened my position even if i chose later to engage a solicitor. The adjournment and the sist both allow for the same argument to be made at a future hearing where it would more likely then be dismissed.

 

Others may add to this or come at it from a different perspective which may be better advice.

 

If it is dismissed remember to ask for expenses also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm trying to get everything in order for monday.

Thanks again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok I have been to CAB today and they were very helpful.

I couldn't get a meeting with their solicitor as the court proceedings have already started, meaning I would have to actually appoint them before they will advise me.

I have attached the blank G9 to this post. I think I have filled it out correctly:

 

Form G9

Form of notice of opposition to motion or minute

Court Ref: #####

 

SHERIFFDOM OF TAYSIDE, CENTRAL AND FIFE AT FALKIRK

NOTICE OF OPPOSITION TO MOTION

AT FALKIRK SHERIFF COURT

 

in the cause

 

CABOT FINANCIAL (UK) LTD having their Registered Office at 1 Kings Hill Avenue, Kings Hill, West Malling, Kent, ME19 4UA

PURSUERS

 

Against

 

#####

DEFENDER

 

Notice of opposition to motion given by ##### to CABOT FINANCIAL (UK) LTD 1 Kings Hill Avenue, Kings Hill, West Malling, Kent, ME19 4UA and Solicitors Optima Legal, RWF House, 5 Renfield Street, Glasgow, G2 5EZ by First Class Recorded Delivery on 20 October 2015.

 

Date: 20 October 2015

 

......................

Defender

######

 

I will deliver it to court Sheriff Clerk tomorrow in person and get a receipt. I will then send Optima Legal a copy.

 

I was also wondering if I should send Cabot a Subject Access Request?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

normally little point in an sar to a dca

 

 

they normally go to the oc

 

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
normally little point in an sar to a dca

 

 

they normally go to the oc

 

 

dx

 

Sorry what is oc?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

original creditor.................


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I delivered this to the court today and had to pay £47 to lodge the opposition to their motion. Hearing for the motion set for next Wednesday. I'll get everything organised and hopefully get it dismissed and claim my expenses back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just back and still elated.

My opposition to their motion was upheld by the court. I did try to lodge my own motion to have the case dismissed but the Sheriff explained that there was no need as that will be the likely outcome at the next hearing.

Explain more later :whoo:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My opposition to their motion was upheld by the court

 

:thumb:


 
 

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10/10


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As predicted on here, it was a local agent who represented Cabot.

She didn't appear to know the story and actually looked a wee bit shell shocked.

 

My case was called two cases after a guy walked out of the court saying "Parasites the lot of you".

I wasn't expecting the Sheriff to be in a good mood after that but it went well.

 

The Sheriff was very patient and explained everything as we went along.

It only took around ten minutes but I'd waited for two hours by then.

 

She asked why I was opposing the motion and I said it was because I was certain Cabot did not have the paperwork and were stalling for time.

 

I said that this had been hanging over me since August and I wanted it dealt with as soon as possible. She agreed :-)

 

I asked if I could lodge my own motion to have it dismissed

but the Sheriff explained that it has to be done 7 days in advance and lodged with the Clerk's office.

 

I would also have to pay another fee.

 

As the Options hearing is 25th November she said it would be better to wait.

She said I would need to talk with a solicitor

as 11th November is the last day for making adjustments to the Writ or Defences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

11th November is the last day for making adjustments to the Writ or Defences.

Will I have to go into more detail or just stick with the skeletal defence that I lodged?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

p'haps deimosboy will comment soon

 

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
can you post up your defense?

 

It's the skeletal defence attached to my first post.

Basically denying their claim but I'm not sure if I now have to do it in detail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The skeleton defence I would have thought be sufficient.

 

It comes down to them having the paperwork as the motion for adjournment/sist has been declined.

 

I would suggest that the sheriff is with you at the moment and they know they have to lodge the papers or it is dismissed so you have to bring her the sheriff with you when you are called to speak.

 

Don't get personal issues like stress or worry involved its the law its not about that, its about procedure.

 

So when called to speak after they don't produce the papers ask for dismissal as it is up to the pursuer to prove their case and without the paperwork that simply is not possible.

 

Procedurally i don't think you can get decree absolvitor without the case being heard but hey ask for it and let the sheriff tell you otherwise.

 

Fingers crossed they don't have the papers. If they do, ask the sheriff for the longest period for the next calling to engage a solicitor (this only really is to give you time to get the trust deed in place).

 

Remember dismissal is essentially only a stay of execution as such. The worry will be that at some point, until time barred, they find the papers and lodge another claim against you

 

. Going back to your first post you were running to get a trust deed this may be ultimately where you end up but whether you have to do this or not is outside your control so should not let it stress or dominate your life.

 

All you can do if they have the papers is defend it or trust deed to protect yourself so you have options. So when it is dismissed move on and don't rush to check the post every morning live your life.

 

And remember to ask for expenses with the dismissal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for popping in

 

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The skeleton defence I would have thought be sufficient.

 

It comes down to them having the paperwork as the motion for adjournment/sist has been declined.

 

I would suggest that the sheriff is with you at the moment and they know they have to lodge the papers or it is dismissed so you have to bring her the sheriff with you when you are called to speak.

 

Don't get personal issues like stress or worry involved its the law its not about that, its about procedure.

 

So when called to speak after they don't produce the papers ask for dismissal as it is up to the pursuer to prove their case and without the paperwork that simply is not possible.

 

Procedurally i don't think you can get decree absolvitor without the case being heard but hey ask for it and let the sheriff tell you otherwise.

 

Fingers crossed they don't have the papers. If they do, ask the sheriff for the longest period for the next calling to engage a solicitor (this only really is to give you time to get the trust deed in place).

 

Remember dismissal is essentially only a stay of execution as such. The worry will be that at some point, until time barred, they find the papers and lodge another claim against you

 

. Going back to your first post you were running to get a trust deed this may be ultimately where you end up but whether you have to do this or not is outside your control so should not let it stress or dominate your life.

 

All you can do if they have the papers is defend it or trust deed to protect yourself so you have options. So when it is dismissed move on and don't rush to check the post every morning live your life.

 

And remember to ask for expenses with the dismissal.

 

Many thanks once again deimosboy. You've helped me out enormously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thread tidied


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just back from court. The sheriff very nearly ruled for Cabot as I had only submitted a skeletal defence and not explained it fully.

He gave me another two weeks to get it sorted and lodged with the clerk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is the formality of the higher court where things have to be in writing i guess, in small claim there is more flexibility.

 

 

I would speak with the solicitor that drafted the skeletal defence,

it does not need much expansion to be honest which I am sure he will confirm.

 

I could n't see the document of with their claims but assume they have stated their claim along the lines of

1) who you are and jurisdiction of court - so admitted

 

2), 3), 4) being details of your loan with original lender,

detailed date of last payment,

detailed date of last correspondence,

detailed that they have had the debt assigned to the them and so on.

 

Your solicitor can add simple additions to your defence like

 

2) where is they claim the loan has been assigned - defence is

2) Not known and not admitted the Pursuer is called upon to lodge vouching of same. Their failure to do so shall be founded upon.

 

3) where they claim the amount, date of last payment etc defence is

3) Not known and not admitted the Pursuer is called upon to lodge vouching of same. Their failure to do so shall be founded upon.

 

As I say its the formality of the higher court but does not mean you can't deal with it yourself

i's and t's need to be crossed and the expanded defence required will be no more that an extra line or two as above.

 

You could engage the CAB solicitor now to defend it and have it thrown out,

your solicitor could easily draught the defence as above and give you a script of what to say and when.

 

Fundamental principle is that if you defend they must present documentation written, oral witness evidence to support their claim,

if they are unable to do so the court has to dismiss

you need not offer or give any evidence (though you would have lodged any evidence and stated a defence)

 

 

you can ask the court to decide stating they have not offered anything to support their claims.

 

 

So I think the sheriff is asking for you to formally state their need to lodge supporting documentation to their claims.

Your defence is therefore in simple terms prove it

which you need to state by extending the lodged defence.

If it were small claim you would have been out of there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...