Park With Ease and County Court Papers - White Moss in the lake district

[laineynic]

Out of the blue yesterday my daughter received a letter and court papers from Park with Ease

 

. Apparently she had parked at a car park - White Moss in the lake district on the 9th October 2014.

This was the first time that she had received anything from them.

 

My daughter moved in June 2014 and had informed the DVLA etc that she had moved.

 

We have never had any letters from them otherwise this would have been dealt with before now.

 

When we she showed us this letter today I immediately got in touch with them to stop the action whilst we sorted it out. But their response has been really quite rude.

 

We have explained that our daughter does no longer live at this address there response is

"The address that has been used is the same as that on the court papers. We therefore have served these letters on you at the address provided by the DVLA. It is your responsibility to update your details with them when changing address. We have no control over this. " We have no control of the DVLA have not amended the address as she asked them to.

 

They also say "We would suggest that you comply with the direction within the document that you have received as action will not be halted due to your contact with us. "

 

""As stated in our previous email, the court claim has now started and you therefore should follow the driections of that document.

 

We cannot issue advise on this matter and would suggest you obtain independent legal advice "" Is this correct?

 

I can see by previous CAG postings that to contact POPLA the landowner and my MP. I have emailed my MP and also The National Parks.

 

Do we just pay it as she did park there for 1hr 10 minutes?

But she genuinely did not receive any letters advising of the parking ticket.

Has it just gone to far?

As it stands today she owes £184.64 with court costs and legal costs.

Thank you.

[armadillo71]

You need to follow the correct procedure if you/your daughter has received a real county court claim from PWE.

Someone will advise you soon. It is not my area...

 

It is not that clear from your post who lives where, but your daughter(the RK) MUST find out from the DVLA when her details were requested , whether the POFA is being used and who requested her data.

 

[email protected]

 

 

 

Customer Complaint Resolution Team

D16W

DVLA

Swansea

SA6 7JL

 

 

 

 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/dvla-reverse-position-on-charging-to.html

[laineynic]

Sorry for the confusion. My daughter is the one that moved house. The address that the letters allegedly went to is her previous address. I have filled in the court forms today. Can I also use the photograph they sent. It shos the car but the photo does not clearly show who is driving?

[ericsbrother]

They are suing the keeper of the vehicle so they must have followed the correct procedures to make a successful claim and at that site it is very unlikely they have.

 

You need to get your daughter to acknowlegde the claim and then she will have some time to defend the claim and get some extra information

.

We will need to know what exactly has happened as far as the event itself,

 

the paperwork she has received and at which address, whether she has registered her vehicle at your address and when etc.

 

They may be right about serving on an old address so timings of all events are critical.

 

However, on the Acknoledgement she should make sure that PWE have her new address otherwise they will carry on and hope to win by delay and default.

[citizenB]

Can you please let us know the date of issue of the claim - top right hand corner of the form. This will let us help you with your timeline.. or you can work it out yourself as follows..

 

Date of issue ?? plus 5 days for service = ?? (you count the date of issue as day 1) Plus 14 days to acknowledge the claim = ?? , which can be done online using the claim reference and the password which you will find buried in the blurb lower down the page on the right hand side. If you are going to defend the claim, you then get a further 14 days in which to submit your defence.

 

so..

 

Date of issue + 5 + 14 to acknowledge (if defending) + 14 days to submit defence.

 

You need to establish what address the DVLA gave these people. If they gave the correct address, then I am sure you will be able to object in some way.

[SabreSheep]

Thread moved to General Legal forum as a claim form has now been issued. This is an admin move on our part.

[laineynic]

Sorry for not getting back until now we've just had a bereavement in the family.

 

 

The ticket was issued 9/10/2014.

 

 

This was apparently sent to my parents address and they say that all post received at theirs was given to me.

 

 

I have not had any such letters.

 

 

Apparently the DVLA gave the old address even though I moved house in May 2014 and notified them they still sent it to my old address.

[ericsbrother]

You (your daughter] can check with the dvla who has done a search for the keeper details

and when and what address was given out by the DVLA.

 

 

If the DVLA have given out the wrong details then they really should be picking up the bill for this

BUT all you would need is to prove that the wrong address was used by PWE

so therefore not compliant with PoFA (tough luck that DVLA screwed it for them).

 

 

However, I wouldnt use that as the only argument in case a judge decides that you got the claim correctly served.

The next step is to demand sight of the contract that assigns the right from the landowner to PWE to take civil action to recover monies in their own name.

Request this under CPR 31.14 and give them 14 days to respond.

If they dont, part of your defence is that it is believed PWE have no locus standi and you require proof of this contract etc.

 

Next is where exactly were you parked as PWE use ANPR to decide who has parked on their car park

although the cameras capture vehicle details of cars passing through to areas that arent covered by their management

so there is a chance that their claim may be based on a false assumption due to the inaccuracy of ANPR systems being concentrated only on entrance and exit.

 

Next,

ask the local council if PWE have planning permission for thier signage.

They require this by law so no PP,

no contract can ever be formed so none to be broken.

 

 

However NT may have applied on their behalf so be careful about jumping too quickly if you get a negative.

Others are in the same boat so if they beat you to the post I will let you know.

[laineynic]

Sorry Due to me being taken ill and having to face a pip tribunal I have been unable to get on here.

 

Up to date - My daughter moved from our home in May 2014 to her own house.

Her details were not changed by the dvla until November.

the DVLA say due to an admin error they failed to change it.

 

 

Today 7/12/2015 my daughter received a ccj from Gladstone solicitors again to my address and not hers.

She now has to pay £206 to remove the ccj asap.

 

She provided the courts with the tenancy agreement showing when she moved, a copy of the form from dvlas she sentto them in June.

 

 

There was a photograph of - someone entering the car park but you can't see the person.

As we have all driven the car and walked the dogs there numerous times we don't know who it is parking there.

 

 

Despite saying all of this to Gladstones they proceeded and secured a ccj.

 

So I guesses she has no alternative but to pay this, but she can't pay in full.

This will lead to a ccj which will make it very difficult in getting a mortgage.

All because she did not get a letter until it was to late to defend.

[ericsbrother]

no, you can go for a set aside.

This costs £155 but you get the money back if it is granted and you win.

 

 

The proof that the DVLA screwed up will secure you a new hearing.

If she is on benefits you get a remission of fees anyway so even better.

You will ahve to move quickly.

 

Did she correspond with Gladstones at all and did she send back an AOS or any other court correspindence with her new address on?

If so the Gladstones have dropped themselves in it and the N244 will be a walkover and they will have costs awarded against them.

 

You really ought to give us the whole story of what has happened since getting the claim so advice is more focussed,

she should have received loads of paperwork and you would have got it if sent to your address

and she would have been given a date to file things by.

 

 

The court will have used the correct address even if Gladstones purposely didnt..

[laineynic]

"You really ought to give us the whole story of what has happened since getting the claim so advice is more focussed"

 

Sorry for not giving the full information but at the moment I am having to deal with so much many things at once which include flooding,

my being diagnosed with arthritis and now this.

 

 

I was also at my tribunal last Monday being mentally battered by the panel asking me about planning journeys.

My head hasn't yet recovered from the feeling of humiliation.

 

 

I won so just waiting to hear from DWP.

sorry I know this isn't relevant but I hope it gives you an idea where I am at the moment.

 

All correspondence has come to my address not hers.

Even though she has notified them endless times she does not live here anymore.

 

 

The letter that came today saying they had secured a ccj against her for £206.15.

The paperwork came about 3 weeks ago, w

e filled them in together including the tenancy agreement photos of the car.

 

 

We did not know that it wasn't a proper hearing and have been expecting going to court.

 

The letter says that by now you will have received the judgement and request payment now.

But we have not had anything or it has gone to her house.

 

 

She told Gladstones that she had moved and that correspondence should have been sent to her new address

hence the reason she had not received anything about the parking ticket.

 

 

They have not responded only letter which was today to say a ccj will be applied.

 

The next step is to demand sight of the contract that assigns the right from the landowner to PWE to take civil action to recover monies in their own name.

We have been trying to find out who the landowner is. Gave up as the 3 places we tried said they don't own it.

I have contacted our MP to see if he knows who it is.

 

Guess its a case of getting it set aside will need to get the paperwork etc.

Edited December 8, 2015 by honeybee13
Spacing.

[ericsbrother]

Did she tell the court her address when sending back the AOS or any other paperwork?

Writing to Gladstones just gives them the green light to get a judgement by default, which they have done.

 

What has your daughter actually done about this as you seem to be posting about things that have or havent arrived at your doorstep.

 

 

It may be that she has just ignored the whole thing and then complained it is all not fair afterwards

She should contact the court and ask about when and where the paperwork was sent to and see if they have her address correctly listed

 

 

. If she got the AOS and other paperwork sent in time then she would have been given a hearing date

and an order telling her to exchange documents by a date before that hearing.

 

You should tell her to either pay up or pull her finger out and do something about this rather than relying on you to sort her mess out.

[laineynic]

The county court judgement arrived this morning.

"It maybe that she has ignored the whole thing and then complained it is not fair afterwards......

 

 

. I take great offene to this comment.

 

 

The reasons being that all post that has arribed at my home address has been dealt with.

 

 

The first letter that told us of the parking ticket was the 19th September.

 

 

My daughter does not ignore things and neither do I.

 

 

If this is what a platinum holder has to say then I shall be seeking advise elsewhere as that is an awful unhelpful comment.!!!!!!!!!!!!

[laineynic]

Finally I sought the help on her behalf and this is the comments you get. What the hell has happened to Con summer action group??

[armadillo71]

You need to follow the correct procedure if you/your daughter has received a real county court claim from PWE.

Someone will advise you soon. It is not my area...

 

It is not that clear from your post who lives where, but your daughter(the RK) MUST find out from the DVLA when her details were requested , whether the POFA is being used and who requested her data.

 

[email protected]

 

 

 

Customer Complaint Resolution Team

D16W

DVLA

Swansea

SA6 7JL

 

 

 

 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/dvla-reverse-position-on-charging-to.html

 

What was the outcome of this inquiry to the DVLA?

[laineynic]

The DVLA said it was a admin error and amended the records immediately. They refunded herthe money that she had paid.

[armadillo71]

No, in post #2 ;

 

but your daughter(the RK) MUST find out from the DVLA when her details were requested , whether the POFA is being used and who requested her data.

 

What were the answers to those questions?

[ericsbrother]

You received court papers back in september, a week later your daughter appears to respond using your username and then we hear nothing for 2 months. Suggestions are made of how to go about setting aside the judgement but there has been precious little information given to help us make sure you get the result that is warranted. You have had time to at least ask about what to do in the interim and everything you say about your problems are of no interest to Gladstones or the courts service as it was your daughter who was named. As the judgement arrived on your doorstep it is clear the Courts service dont have her address so she hasnt sent back the AOS and so has been walked all over. People have to help themselves so if you think that my comments are unwarranted then tell me what she has done about this matter in the last 2 months as the evidence of doing anything is currently absent from here.

So, in short, did she inform the court of the incorrect address or just rely on your emails to Gladstones?

The DVLA are at fault about the wrong current address but Gladstones were following the correct procedures in writing to the address held by the DVLA at the time, to do otherwise would be wrong. As you were not a party to this matter they cannot take any notice of what you say without her express authority. As said, they have used this to their advantage so it is now for your daughter to do something about it.

 

It is very difficult to offer advice via an intermediary as you cannot really answer points without referring back and in the last couple of days it is clear that her input has been minimal (maybe because of the lack of understanding about the procedures or distance from you) but she should have read the original N1 claim form and acted upon it. At no point did you or her come back and ask about this so you cannot complain too much about my comments about whether she has given the matter the gravity it deserved just because you didnt like the judgement dropping on your doormat when she should have given the correct address to the courts service upon submitting her AOS or other paperwork.

So, you need to find out what she did about the original Acknowledgement of Service and any subsequent paperwork if you want to continue this matter, whether you use this forum or not. Overturning the current judgement is only the first step, she still has to then supply a defence and part of that will be the matters already raised about PWE's contracual authority, compliance with the PoFA for keeper liability, legality of signage etc. these are things that should be done and dusted by now as you did mention them in your early postings. Likewise the demand for proof of contractual authority from PWE under discovery rules, this will be very awkward for them which is why Gladstones will stall on this one and say that it isnt part of small claims procedures. well, it isnt for them to decide what track the court uses nor what evidence a judge will order to be produced and it is very relevant so keep asking for it and complain to the court if it isnt supplied.

On your last commenton post #16- has your daughter asked the DVLA to stump up the £206 for their errors? She wont get it but a complaint of maladministration wouldnt go amiss. She may have to involve her MP to get it in at the correct level.

Contrary to how it may seem, I do want your daughter to win this and hope that she can get the N244 filled in asap with the DVLA evidence of the incorrect address and she will get it on a nod. As for the rest I hope she asked the local council about any application for planning permissions regarding the signage (Gladdys and PWE will say that it is deemed consent but it isnt, it is just that once you apply it is granted on a nod unless in a conservation area and that may well be the case her so even trickier to claim deemed). No PP no contract can ever be formed- the end regardless of their howlings.

[laineynic]

I'm done with CAG I do not need or deserve your comments. I was on here for help for my daughter not a barhe of critiscm. I went missin for 2 months because I have't been very well and preparing myself for a tribunal. sorry if that isn't satisfactory for you but thats how it is.Also my daughter has been dealing with personal probm

lems concerning a baby that she lost, then her partner ,lost hisjob of 8 years.

 

Having been a member of this site for over 9 years and contributed financially when I could. I am now withdrawing from this site. Thanks for thelp but your comments are very hard to take expecially when you are judging on someone you don't know. I have always been a support of sticky and the others But you the one thing I can do is log iout and put you behind me unfortunately for others who log on here god help em ifyou treate them like this!!!!!!!

[laineynic]

I thank everyone for the advice they have given me I really do appreciate it. In my defense of the lack of if information and confusion I have caused is down to the amount of stress I am under and trying to put thingsas clear as I can is not alwats easy. If I have given to much then againI am sorry. I thought I'd given as much as I could.

I want to make this very clear my daughter has ignored nothing. We are a family that stick together and the reason I contacted CAG was I wanted to see what we could do. She was just going to pay the judgment and leave it. It was me that told her to not just accept the ccj as it will affect her credit history. Not sure what the AOS is but we received papers from Gladstones to go to the courts at Northampton. We completed these given her new address, a copy of the tenancy proving the date she moved. The photograph from the car park that only proves the car but not the driver.

 

All correspondence is coming to my home address despiring us sending the new details to PWE, Gladstones and The Courts. We have used the new address on everything so the comment " It is very difficult to offer advice via an intermediary as you cannot really answer points without referring back and in the last couple of days it is clear that her input has been minimal (maybe because of the lack of understanding about the procedures or distance from you) but she should have read the original N1 claim form and acted upon it. At no point did you or her come back and ask about this so you cannot complain too much about my comments about whether she has given the matter the gravity it deserved just because you didnt like the judgement dropping on your doormat when she should have given the correct address to the courts service upon submitting her AOS or other paperwork" She has given her address throughout the whole of this right from September. Which includes all documentation. In September when the first letter arrived at my house was the first time she has heard of them. The invoice was issued in October 2014 almost a year later she receives a letter saying they are going to take her to court. I catagoricaaly state that all of her mail that has arrived here has been given to her and nothing has ever come from PWE.

 

Sum up - awaiting to see the letter from dvla as it wentto her new address then I can answer the questions on why the address was wrong. Letters from Gladstones arrived in November with court papers. All letters and papers that arrived where in my daughters name to our home address. She completed them and we sent letters to Gladstones with a copy of her tenancy agreement all with her new address. Court papers were sent with her new address on them and a copy of the tenancy. All to no avail as they have changed nothing and still have this address,

 

The judgement made against her received today is for our address not her new address. She has at every step told them the new address.

 

We have tried numerous times to find out who the landowner is and it has changed hand many tmes so we are struggling with this also. Today I spoke to our MP and he is going to find this out for me. I say me because I am on here to represent her and because I have the time to find things out for her. She in no way is letting me do all of this whilst she does nothing.

[armadillo71]

Last time. Post # 2 told you what to find out from the DVLA. Did you?

 

PWE do not/did not use the POFA so there is no keeper liability.

[ericsbrother]

So Gladstones have breached the civil procerure regs by deliberately sending papers to the wrong address if she has received court papers at her new address after returning the acknowledgement of service (AOS).

 

 

As said, this will get the judgement set aside and costs will probably be awarded so she shouldnt give up.

 

 

Thing is though you keep mentioning what you sent to Gladstones and nothing about what you sent to court.

 

It doesnt really matter who the landowner is adn if it has changed hands all the better,

PWE wont be able to produce a contract.

 

 

They have to prove their claim, not you disprove it

so show reason for doubt and refusal from them to prove that a debt exists will not make a judge decide in their favour a second time.

 

 

There are other threads here regarding this site so read them and ask the original posters for copies of their paperwork.