Disabled parking on single yellow line in Wales

[terriersaregreat]

I have looked to see if anyone else has encountered this problem on CAG couldn't find anything, so apologies if I have missed it.

 

In Wales there are circumstances when you can park on a single yellow line for three hours and then the car must be moved for one hour. I believe that this may be different in England but not sure as there is conflicting advice. Having had a rather nasty experience yesterday with a traffic warden who swore blind that I hadn't moved the car when I most definitely had as she said, "the valves are in the same place", I wondered how far the car has to be moved? Does anyone know?

 

It was a horrible experience being told that I hadn't moved the car and that further more I did it every day!

 

There was a CCTV camera on the pub nearby so I suggested that the warden go ahead and book me and I would request the evidence. Eventually when neighbours came out to support me we told that we were "ganging up on her". Fortunately in law witnesses are not accused of this! In any event I was told to reverse the car 10 foot to move the car. I understand that this is within the power of the traffic Warden so I complied.

 

Therefore it appears that moving a car is just moving it so that the valves are not in the same place! But is this correct or should the car be removed from that stretch of yellow line making it difficult to return to a place of work?

 

It has also occurred to me that this must create difficulties for disabled workers trying to park near their place of work. Popping out and moving the car every three hours to where?

[Jamberson]

Assuming the regs in Wales are as per the usual, you would need to move to a different yellow line or parking space. Moving along the same line doesn't constitute moving. It sounds to me like the CEO in this case backed off and let you move just a little, which was her personal decision.

 

Valve positions are noted as evidence, pre-empting false appeals. Often the CEO will photograph the car wheels on first sighting, so there is a precise record of where the wheels are in relation to the road, and the valves. If the CEO has done that, then your appeal becomes much clearer.

 

It does create difficulties if you need to park for more than three hours, but then you would be expected to find a long-term arrangement. Yellow lines, after all, are usually there because parking is hazardous, so the three-hour concession is good, but doesn't extend into an all-day parking arrangement.

[Michael Browne]

You must wait for at least one hour after a previous period of parking before you can park the same vehicle in the same road or part of a road on the same day.

http://gov.wales/topics/transport/road-users/bluebadgeschemeinfo/?lang=en

 

If you merely moved the car a few feet, then the PCN was correctly issued

[Jamberson]

I don't think the OP got a PCN - the CEO was in a generous mood.

[terriersaregreat]

Well thanks that makes it clearer, could you direct me to the necessary legislation.

 

A photo had been taken which you say would indicate the road, so as this was kerbside it would show that I had been parked differently. My distance from the kerb in the morning was greater then when I had moved away for an hour and returned.

 

My point was that I do remove the car for an hour or two and then return but the traffic warden's point was that I hadn't and that I never did! "You do this ever day". Traffic wardens only operate in our town a couple of random days a week. So felt that this was quite a nasty remark.

 

It would appear that she backed off when I said that I was parked further up the road, she insisted that I hadn't, and that the distance from the kerb was different. I couldn't see the photo as the sun was very strong on the screen. I also stated that I would call for the CCTV coverage.

 

I was just curious as to why I had been requested to move the car a few feet backwards and was hoping that this was what I could legally do.

 

The situation demonstrated how difficult it is for the disabled to park close to their work as day long car parks are often a long way away as in this case.

 

Look forward to receiving any more help and comments.

 

Thank you

TAG

[terriersaregreat]

I had moved the car and I didn't get a pcn. I was happy to receive a pcn and call for the evidence of the CCTV coverage, we were right under a camera.

[Jamberson]

Sorry, I don't know where the original legislation is. Someone else might.

 

It's an interesting point though - if you move the car as, say, 11.am, and return at 12.30, you've abided by the rules. But if the CEO doesn't check until, say, 12.15, they would have no way of knowing how long you'd been gone. That's where the appeals process comes in - footage (if there is any), photos and so on, and also any CEO notes pertaining to their patrol, showing where they were and when. They should be able to prove if a vehicle is unmoved, but not necessarily how long it was gone for.

[Michael Browne]

If he returns at 12.30 and the CEO checked at 12.15, the car wouldn't be there...... but I know what you mean.

 

If you can be bothered, you could always take time-stamped photos yourself every time you park and re-park the car

[green_and_mean]

The legislation clearly states one hour must elapse before you can re-park in the same ROAD. You have to use a clock which would be photographed by the CEO so unless you put the wrong time (which would also get a PCN) the CEO would know when you re-parked and would know if 60 mins had elapsed.

[Jamberson]

Say you park at 9.00, and the CEO sees you at five past. Then you leave just after that, returning two hours later, setting your clock to your new arrival time - say, 11:15. How does the CEO know if you first left the scene at 9:15 or, say, 10:50 or 11:05? Assuming he hadn't been back of course.

[green_and_mean]

Say you park at 9.00, and the CEO sees you at five past. Then you leave just after that, returning two hours later, setting your clock to your new arrival time - say, 11:15. How does the CEO know if you first left the scene at 9:15 or, say, 10:50 or 11:05? Assuming he hadn't been back of course.

 

The law states that the period of exempted waiting is 3 hours, if you leave after 5 minutes tough your next period of exempted waiting cannot start until 60 minutes after the first period ended.

 

(4) Where the period of the prohibition exceeds 3 hours the exemption shall be for a period of 3 hours subject to the conditions that–

 

(a)

 

the period of exempted waiting does not begin less than one hour after a previous period of exempted waiting by the same vehicle in the same road on the same day;

.

 

(b)

 

a parking disc is displayed in the relevant position on the vehicle marked to show the quarter hour period during which the period of exempted waiting began.

[Jamberson]

I never knew that. I'm learning lots today!

[green_and_mean]

I never knew that. I'm learning lots today!

 

The limit would be totally unenforceable unless the CEO actually saw you leave otherwise

[mikeymack2002]

You should always consider this as well the disabled person should be sitting in the car closest to the kerb. Whether driver or passenger. Then they would not cause delays for other road users.

 

You can always move your car to the opposite site of the road as this is a different bay or stretch of road. The CEO would log you say outside number 55 high street you swap sides the would log you outside number 66 high street. Strange but true.

[green_and_mean]

 

You can always move your car to the opposite site of the road as this is a different bay or stretch of road. The CEO would log you say outside number 55 high street you swap sides the would log you outside number 66 high street. Strange but true.

 

Its still the same road the legislation clearly states you cannot re-park in the same ROAD until an hour has passed.

[terriersaregreat]

This is very helpful. So what legislation does this come from as it didn't come up when I Googled it?

 

On this occasion I had moved the car and returned an hour later as I have done today. The CEO was relying upon a photo of the valves and was adamant that I hadn't moved the car when I had. It was obvious to me that the distance I had parked from the kerb was different the first time than the second time. So the photo would have proved me correct and of course the CCTV. To be accused of doing it every day, i.e. not move the car, was also untrue and quite frankly the CEOs are not in town every day. I was shocked by her attitude and behaviour as I have always been polite to her when I see her in the street. The public are not always wrong and there were some very upset drivers in town that day that were going to report her. I won't on this occasion but I will if her harassment continues and yes I am photographing each time I park. Its just that I realise how logistically this law has to be changed.

[terriersaregreat]

I see your point mikeymack2002 but more from the point of safety for the disabled person.

[terriersaregreat]

So imagine this:- you are disabled and your place of work is 10 minutes walk from the car park. There are a small number of disabled parking bays for all day parking. However outside your place of work there is a road with a single yellow line. You choose to park on the yellow line as you won't be so exhausted from the walk. After three hours you have to move the car.....but where do you go? If you move it to another single yellow lined road, hopefully around the corner, you have another three hours. After three hours you have to trot off again and bring the car back to the original place for another three hours by which time you should have finished work. Or you could move it for an hour and bring it back for another three hours by which time you may not have finished work etc..

 

However if you park in a car park all day you will have to walk back to the car park after a full day's work.

 

Of course the single yellow line I am referring to indicated that you can park there after 6.00 pm but you must move by 8.00 am. Its a mess and things need to change. TAG

[Jamberson]

But consider why there is a yellow line there at all. It's just not a suitable place for people to be parking - you have a concession, but not an all-day parking space.

[terriersaregreat]

But consider why there is a yellow line there at all. It's just not a suitable place for people to be parking - you have a concession, but not an all-day parking space.

 

This is not a double yellow line. According to the use of a blue badge you are permitted to park on a single yellow line for three hours so it is considered "suitable" for three hours and a further three hours after a break of an hour! In actual fact another disabled driver could take the place of the disabled driver moving away for an hour. Therefore not a question of suitablility. As a blue badge holder you can of course park on double yellow lines if you park at least 15 metres from a junction and do not cause obstruction.

 

In this particular case parking is a suitable place to park for all disabled and non-disabled providing they park between the hours of 6 pm and 8 am.

 

My main point is what is considered moving the car away for one hour. The question arose as the CEO instructed me to move a few yards to ensure that I had moved the car. It had nothing to do with obstruction.

 

Thinking about this I then considered the position for all disabled drivers and how difficult it is to get to their place of work etc.

TAG

[green_and_mean]

There are places you can park all day such as P&D or Disabled bays parking all day on a yellow line is not what the concession is meant to be for. If you are fit enough to keep walking back and forward all day to move It, surely you can walk to an all day parking place?

[Jamberson]

This is not a double yellow line. According to the use of a blue badge you are permitted to park on a single yellow line for three hours so it is considered "suitable" for three hours and a further three hours after a break of an hour! In actual fact another disabled driver could take the place of the disabled driver moving away for an hour. Therefore not a question of suitablility. As a blue badge holder you can of course park on double yellow lines if you park at least 15 metres from a junction and do not cause obstruction.

 

I think you're coming at it from the wrong angle. Yellow lines bar parking - the idea of the concession is that, although it is hazardous for cars to be in certain places at busier times, there has to be a fair way of allowing disabled drivers to go about their business. This concession is intended as short-term parking, as and when needed. It is true that if you exploit the concession to the max, you can get 6 hours every working day (with a break) but that's not what it's intended for, and in fact the hour break does deliberately prevent it being exploited that way. Parking all day for work purposes is simply not allowed on yellow lines, regardless of ability.

[terriersaregreat]

There are places you can park all day such as P&D or Disabled bays parking all day on a yellow line is not what the concession is meant to be for. If you are fit enough to keep walking back and forward all day to move It, surely you can walk to an all day parking place?

 

Don't think that you have grasped the situation, which is worrying. All day P&D or Disabled bays are minimum 500 yards away. Single yellow line area is 10 yards away. In fact in this case there are free parking bays for the disabled for 2 hours (no return for one hour), 100 yards away and the all day disabled parking bays, which number six, are at least 500 yards away. There are free one hour parking bays, for all, alongside the disabled 2 hour parking bays which are closer than the disabled P&D parking places. Its mad and not thought out. In the main street there are two disabled bays compared with 25 non disabled bays.

 

Anyway as yet no one has come up with the legislation as I want to take this up with the Council etc. Suspect quotes re return has come from hand books. Need the legislation on this please.

[terriersaregreat]

I think you're coming at it from the wrong angle. Yellow lines bar parking - the idea of the concession is that, although it is hazardous for cars to be in certain places at busier times, there has to be a fair way of allowing disabled drivers to go about their business. This concession is intended as short-term parking, as and when needed. It is true that if you exploit the concession to the max, you can get 6 hours every working day (with a break) but that's not what it's intended for, and in fact the hour break does deliberately prevent it being exploited that way. Parking all day for work purposes is simply not allowed on yellow lines, regardless of ability.

 

If you read your comment back this does not make any sense. It has been quoted on this thread that it is OK to park on a single yellow line for 3 hours, move away for 1 hour to another road, and return for another 3 hours.

 

Logic states that the disabled can therefore move off the single yellow line allowing another disabled driver to park in the same place. Therefore technically speaking the single yellow line can be parked upon 24 hours a day albeit by different drivers.

 

I think that the purpose of this is to ensure that the disabled are allowed access to areas which they probably could not access without this system as the car parks are too far away.

 

I am surprised by the lack of sympathy and understanding for the disabled person's needs shown on this thread. Being disabled is not fun and trying to lead as normal a life as possible by continuing to work etc. is important.

 

Please could some one provide the ref to the legislation??????

[Jamberson]

99 percent of the time it's used correctly - for short-term parking by a reasonable number of people, minimizing the problem caused to other road users. If disabled motorists were there longer term or in great numbers it would cause a significant risk and probably end up with a loading ban so you can't park there at all.

 

Nothing I said is untrue, and nothing you said is untrue - but you just can't park there all day - what do you want anyone to say? There's a reason for it - and a small number of short-term parkings by the odd person is tolerated, and rightly so.

 

Telling you the regs isn't a lack of sympathy - it's just the truth. Legislation - check in the Highway code, and the references in there will give you the relevant acts of parliament.