what is the correct way to deal with a bad bailiff

[koby]

Hi all,

 

I have had a recent run in with a bailiff and im posertive he hasnt followed the correct rules for taking control of goods, im not wanting to debate whether im right or not! i would just like to know the correct way of complaing about it.

 

the complaint would be at the bailiff and possible his company as they were aware of his actions?

 

thank you.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Can you tell us more about what happened please?

 

My best, HB

[koby]

i would rather keep the details of the action to myself at this moment in time.

 

but the agent was wrong in his actions which led to a clamp being removed myself being arrested, but then released without charge and advised to take civil action against him as its a civil mater not criminal. he tried to bend the rules and got caught out!

 

so im looking for advice on how to procede legaly and in a correct order? who to speak to ?

[i hate bailiffs]

I would say we need more info

What was the debt about ect

[Peterbard]

i would rather keep the details of the action to myself at this moment in time.

 

but the agent was wrong in his actions which led to a clamp being removed myself being arrested, but then released without charge and advised to take civil action against him as its a civil mater not criminal. he tried to bend the rules and got caught out!

 

so im looking for advice on how to procede legaly and in a correct order? who to speak to ?

 

The correct approach if pursuing a civil action would be to make complaint to the EA's employer and also the creditor. If that did not resolve matters an action under section 66 of schedule 12 of the TCE, or under a common law tort, depending on the nature of the offence.

[Peterbard]

The correct approach if pursuing a civil action would be to make complaint to the EA's employer and also the creditor. If that did not resolve matters an action under section 66 of schedule 12 of the TCE, or under a common law tort, depending on the nature of the offence.

 

This assumes that you wish to claim some kind of damages from them, and that damages are appropriate in your case.

[koby]

I phoned the people who employ the bailiff at the time and they didn't want to know and told me a supervisor was not available. Do I still need to write to them as well ?

 

And the council was aware before and during and after but didn't help. I have made a official complaint which they should have replied to by now but they haven't. (10 working days)

[Bailiff Advice]

i would rather keep the details of the action to myself at this moment in time.

 

but the agent was wrong in his actions which led to a clamp being removed myself being arrested, but then released without charge and advised to take civil action against him as its a civil mater not criminal. he tried to bend the rules and got caught out!

 

so im looking for advice on how to procede legaly and in a correct order? who to speak to ?

 

With almost no background information on which to provide an adequate response my suggestion is that you outline your complaint as simply as possible (and most importantly, in date order) and that you write a letter to the enforcement company and mark it Formal Complaint. It may well be that the enforcement agent was not acting correctly but you need to see what the enforcement companies response is before considering your next course of action.

[unclebulgaria67]

I phoned the people who employ the bailiff at the time and they didn't want to know and told me a supervisor was not available. Do I still need to write to them as well ?

 

And the council was aware before and during and after but didn't help. I have made a official complaint which they should have replied to by now but they haven't. (10 working days)

 

Depends on what you are seeking to achieve. Court is a bit dodgy as the enforcement industry appears to be a favourite cousin of Judges, so you may not receive a fair hearing. Better to make sure the council deal with the complaint and go down the local ombudsman route, if you remain unhappy.

[Peterbard]

I phoned the people who employ the bailiff at the time and they didn't want to know and told me a supervisor was not available. Do I still need to write to them as well ?

 

And the council was aware before and during and after but didn't help. I have made a official complaint which they should have replied to by now but they haven't. (10 working days)

 

Yes you need to make a formal complaint by writing, keeping copies of all correspondence. The civil court is the only effective route to take if you are after a claim for damages, which path you take with your claim will depend on your details of course, the court will decide on the merits of the case, nothing more.

 

Can you tell us why they decided not to charge you, did you cut the clamp off ?

[koby]

Yes I removed the clamp after giving the bailiff his company and council and police notice of over 24 hours of what I was going to do

[ploddertom]

Taking any Bailiff or Enforcement Co to Court can be fraught with difficulty not least because of the risk you run of losing and them asking for their costs. You need to establish what part of "bad" you class the Bailiff as. There is another complaint route available - the issue of Form EAC2 whereby the Bailiffs' fitness to hold a Certificate may be called into doubt - again I would imagine this would be defended vigorously and risk of costs against being asked for.

 

If you can establish the Bailiff has indeed broken the law by his actions then you would have a much clearer case but to be honest you need to treat anything you do with caution.

[Peterbard]

Yes I removed the clamp after giving the bailiff his company and council and police notice of over 24 hours of what I was going to do

 

Did you do this without causing any damage and return it to the EA ?

[koby]

i took it off without causing damage to it, then droped it at the police station as lost property with a note with the bailiffs name.

[Peterbard]

i took it off without causing damage to it, then droped it at the police station as lost property with a note with the bailiffs name.

 

Well if you are going to go down that path, then that is the best way to do it. There are places who advise people to throw them in the canal, can you imagine what kind of trouble that would land the debtor in.

 

I take it you want to claim damages or do you just want to get the EA in trouble ? If the former you need to examine your claim carefully before presenting it, ensure that you claim can be justified and your damages are proportionate. Without further detail I cannot be more specific.

.

[HCEOs]

i took it off without causing damage to it, then droped it at the police station as lost property with a note with the bailiffs name.

 

That is still a criminal offence.

 

Offences under Schedule 12 of the Tribunal, Courts & Enforcement Act (TCA) 2007

 

Under clause 68 of this schedule, the legislation is clear regarding the actions that constitute and offence during the process of enforcement:

 

A person is guilty of an offence if he intentionally interferes with controlled goods without lawful excuse.

 

A person guilty of an offence under this paragraph is liable on summary conviction to-

 

Imprisonment for a term not exceeding 51 weeks, or A fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale, or Both

[obiter dictum]

Throwing my hat in.

 

Without Lawful Exuse??

 

What if the clamp was applied Erroneously in that the baliff had no auhority, Failed to follow correct procedure, or a hunch? Enforcement will then be unlawful

 

Wlll Schedule 12 then apply??

 

We all know baliffs regular as clock work flout the law such as Foot in the door, threshold and all that

 

Just posting a question as i am ignorant on baliff matters and legislation

[HCEOs]

Throwing my hat in.

 

Without Lawful Exuse??

 

What if the clamp was applied Erroneously in that the baliff had no auhority, Failed to follow correct procedure, or a hunch? Enforcement will then be unlawful

 

Wlll the regulation then apply??

 

We all know baliffs regular as clock work flout the law such as Foot in the door, threshold and all that

 

Just posting a question as i am ignorant on baliff matters and legislation

 

What if.... That's the point.

 

It would be for the Police to decide whether the EA followed lawful procedures during any investigation.

[obiter dictum]

Agreed, but the problem again is that even the police are ignorant on baliff enforcement and nine times out of ten will always take the baliff word on it. To the detriment of the debtor

[Bailiff Advice]

Throwing my hat in.

 

Without Lawful Exuse??

 

What if the clamp was applied Erroneously in that the baliff had no auhority, Failed to follow correct procedure, or a hunch? Enforcement will then be unlawful

 

Wlll Schedule 12 then apply??

 

Your above question is actually very important indeed and let me explain.

 

Every day I receive enquiries or phone calls from the public with 'claims' that a bailiff had:

 

Acted 'unlawfully' ....

 

Had provided a 'fake warrant'...

 

Was trying to enforce for their fees after the warrant had been 'satisfied'...

 

That a vehicle was 'exempt' and that the bailiff was acting 'illegally'

 

etc, etc etc. The list is endless.

 

However, in all cases where there is a dispute...there is a simply, speedy and more important....FREE remedy available under Part 85 of the Civil Procedure Rules. There is a thread on this procedure and I will post a link later.

 

The bottom line is that with a car clamp, it is NOT for the debtor to determine whether or not the device was applied illegally. That is not his decision to make.

[mikeymack2002]

What if.... That's the point.

 

It would be for the Police to decide whether the EA followed lawful procedures during any investigation.

 

 

The Police would just turn around and state its a civil matter, but once cut its a criminal matter, go figure!!

[Peterbard]

The Police would just turn around and state its a civil matter, but once cut its a criminal matter, go figure!!

 

I think that it is the TCE which states that it is a criminal matter to interfere with goods under control MM.

 

TBH The way things stand at the moment, with incorrect advice being given left right and centre, the police and the EA are probably correct in the majority of situations.

People are being told to say that goods are exempt or third party, enforcment notices have not been received irrespective of what has actually occurred.

 

This has happened in all areas of debt, measures are introduced to help people from DCA/ bailiffs etc. These are abused then the measures have to be amended or removed.

 

Anyway isn't there a discussion thread for this, it is not helping the OP

[koby]

That is still a criminal offence.

 

Offences under Schedule 12 of the Tribunal, Courts & Enforcement Act (TCA) 2007

 

Under clause 68 of this schedule, the legislation is clear regarding the actions that constitute and offence during the process of enforcement:

 

A person is guilty of an offence if he intentionally interferes with controlled goods without lawful excuse.

 

A person guilty of an offence under this paragraph is liable on summary conviction to-

 

Imprisonment for a term not exceeding 51 weeks, or A fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale, or Both

 

Total rubish !!!! i was released without charge as there was no crime to answer!

 

the officer said his goods were not in control as he hadnt followed the correct course of action! FACT.

 

this sort of rubbish is why i asked for info on how to complain and didnt want to tell the story. as soon as i posted all everyone wanted to do was find out the story and talk rubish which had nothing to do with what i asked

[obiter dictum]

That was why i asked the question

 

If goods have been levied and under control of the baliff, if that levy is unlawful technically the baliff could be done for interfering with a motor vehicle

 

But i do not have a clue on baliff legislation and this is way above my head

[koby]

i did raise that point at the station but the police adviced me to complain and take the civil route as if i wanted him charged it would not be in the public interest. but taking someone to court for damage to a £12 padlock is ?

 

there is a culture of helping bailiffs out there! my opinion.

 

i believe the police know that laws are broken by bailiffs all the time but unless there breaking peoples legs they dont ever seem to get charged???? but if you look around you see loads of people cutting off clamps being arrested for pennys of damage and lots of them if not all not even making it to a court room!! with cases dropped. so why keep charging people if there not getting convicted? and more the point why are bailiffs not charged more often?

Edited September 28, 2015 by koby
i cant spell to save my life :/