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UKCPS observed leaving site charge

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Hi

 

In mid August we got a parking ticket "observed leaving site" at a UKCPS car park.

 

We took the advice here and waited for the NtK. So have not yet contacted them

 

The NtK has now arived (within the time constraints) and now I am going to challenge the charge based on the following. I've used various templates to gather what I think is most relevant

 

1 the attendant did not attempt to mitigate the loss.

2 A previous court case (ie VCS vs Ibbotson) have ruled that leaving the site is not a breach of contract.

3 There can be no loss as the car park was half empty both on entering and leaving

4 Signage is sparse and is not clear and so no contract was entered

5 The boundaries of the car park are not clearly defined - a public footpath runs through at one end

6 No proof that the driver has actually left the site

 

Is there anything else I could mention. I wanted to keep it brief at this stage; or should I ommit anything,

From the UKCPS site it seems I have to send this appeal by post. Does anyone know if I can do this online or by email and provide the details

 

Any assistance would be much appreciated

  • Haha 1

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Hi

 

In mid August we got a parking ticket "observed leaving site" at a UKCPS car park.

 

We took the advice here and waited for the NtK. So have not yet contacted them

 

The NtK has now arived (within the time constraints) and now I am going to challenge the charge based on the following. I've used various templates to gather what I think is most relevant

 

1 the attendant did not attempt to mitigate the loss.

2 A previous court case (ie VCS vs Ibbotson) have ruled that leaving the site is not a breach of contract.

3 There can be no loss as the car park was half empty both on entering and leaving

4 Signage is sparse and is not clear and so no contract was entered

5 The boundaries of the car park are not clearly defined - a public footpath runs through at one end

6 No proof that the driver has actually left the site

 

Is there anything else I could mention. I wanted to keep it brief at this stage; or should I ommit anything,

From the UKCPS site it seems I have to send this appeal by post. Does anyone know if I can do this online or by email and provide the details

 

Any assistance would be much appreciated

 

A refreshing change... An OP who has put some effort in and to help themselves. :clap2:

 

 

That is fine. Make sure you head it appeal and state that as RK you are not liable for the charge.

 

With a posted letter you can get free proof of postage and I would recommend posting the appeal to these herberts....

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Ha ha, well done, good effort, cannot believe they still use this dumb argument to con the uneducated.


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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As you are writing to the parking co that will do for the moment. They wont agree with you and you will get the sparsest and vaguest of regurditated responses turning down your appeal. However you will have created a paper trail that shows that you are not going to fall for their trickery and once you have followed all of the procedual niceties the matter will quietly go away

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Many thanks all for the swift response.

 

I'll post off the appeal getting proof of posting and await the response

 

Will let you know how it goes.

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There is a slim chance UKCPS will cancel as a ' gesture of goodwill '.

 

There is less/no chance that the IAS will uphold your appeal... but these are the steps we follow to make sure it will not go near a court room.

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The IAS have a habit of making such a horlicks of their reasons for not agreeing with the appellant they screw the parking co anyway. Usual stuff is disagreeing with PoFA being relevant legislation and try and use case law that was superceded back in the 1970's, failing to mention that PE v Beavis is still under appeal etc.

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Hi All,

 

Just returned back from holiday and the UKCPS have replied to the appeal. It looks as though they have not taken up any of the points outlined in the appeal and probably not even read the letter.

 

They have not rejected the appeal but have noted that we were not willing to name the driver.

 

They are requesting that we inform them of the driver of the vehicle, or if not, there is a lot of waffle but basically saying that they can recover costs from the keeper. They quote POFA schedule 4 sub para's 8.e.(1) and 8.e.2.

 

Can anyone inform the best way forward.

 

Best Regards

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They can only chase the keeper if the NTD and NTK conforms with schedule 4 of the POFA 2012.

 

They will not be compliant. Post up a redacted copy of the NTK please and we'll prove it.

 

Have they not offered the IAS then?

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they know about VCS v Ibbotson so they know they are onto a loser with their claim so they try and waffle and hope you are frightened into paying up. TYhere is no breach of contract so no liability by anyone.

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Hi

 

Thanks for the quick response.

 

No they have not referred this to IAS yet. Instead they are wanting to know the driver.

 

My view is that irresepctive of who the driver was, they have not responded to the other points in my appeal. In particular the point on VCS vs Ibbotson which to me implies they stand no chance in court. So naming the driver in this case seems to me to be not relevant anyway,

 

So should I as Armidillo is saying highlight the fact that the NTK is not correct wrt POFA (I am not sure of this); it is the standard letter they send out which I have seen on other threads. If this is really required, I'll work on getting a redacted copy on here in the next few days. It would be good to understand where we are on the legal side with not providing the driver which is the advice I have seen on many sites so presume it is ok.

 

Or should I just repeat again the points of my appeal saying it is futile for them to take this any further.

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You are under no obligation to give the name of the driver and you shouldn't. That is why there is schedule 4 of the POFA.

This means that the keeper can be held liable IF the NTD/NTK meet all of the conditions of schedule 4.

They never do...

 

Check for yourself here;

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

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Thanks for the link Armadillo - I'll review it over the next few days.

I had no intention to provide the drivers name, so should I just write to UKCPS stating that I have no obligation to do this and ask them to consider the points in my appeal and either cancel their claim or refer to the IAS.

Or should I try to go into the technical legal problems of their NTK letter. I have a feeling this will just be ignored anyway, but if it is worth it then I will provide a redacted version of the NTK for review in the next few days.

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Thanks for the link Armadillo - I'll review it over the next few days.

I had no intention to provide the drivers name, so should I just write to UKCPS stating that I have no obligation to do this and ask them to consider the points in my appeal and either cancel their claim or refer to the IAS.and state that no assumption can be made as to who the driver was at the time of the event. Also state that as RK you are not liable for the charge due to the NTK not meeting the requirements of schedule 4 of the POFA 2012.

Or should I try to go into the technical legal problems of their NTK letter. I have a feeling this will just be ignored anyway, but if it is worth it then I will provide a redacted version of the NTK for review in the next few days.

 

And don't ask, tell them to either cancel the charge or allow access the the IAS.

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Thanks guys

 

I'll write back to them stating there is no obligation for us to name the driver and will not do so.

 

Then tell them to re-consider the points raised in the original appeal and either cancel the charge or take it to the IAS.

 

Will let you know the outcome - I assume it will take another few weeks before getting any response

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