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Received letter from Palmer Biggs Legal

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Hi,

 

I have read numerous threads on the firm Palmer Biggs Legal, but still unsure what to do or how to proceed with a response as their tactics seem quiet forceful and also unreasonable with regards to costs asked for etc.

 

I run a very small, loss making Ltd company, which specialise in aftermarket parts for BMW. The site is of our own design however as we specialise in the BMW brand, we did use a resemblance of the BMW logo as a favicon for example in our URL, an some of our replacement parts are supplied with separate BMW logos as they are required to complete the look of the complex replacement part.

 

They claim as the photos of some of our products have trademarked logos on them we are IP infringement and that also customers could be confused to the original source of the parts i.e. they are genuine. I feel this hard to believe as the parts we sell are not even offered by BMW in the first place (we offer replacement parts but in different colour to OEM parts). However, the OEM part has a BMW logo them, which we need to supply in order to provide a good replacement.

 

We have assumed that when we acquired the badges that accompany a few of our products that the supplier had rights to the logo etc. There was never as conversation about IP infringement when purchasing the badges. However, the badges have now been removed as we haven't sold any for over a year or more and also to save future headaches.

 

I must stress that we do not manufacture any of the products or the badges, custom or replacement that are supplied with a very few of the parts that we believe are required in order to complete the look of the replacement part. Nor do we claim anywhere on the site that parts are genuine or affiliated with BMW.

 

We received the original letter over a month ago asking for costs of over £1000, which included the firms research (basically screening shots of the site) and asking we sign their agreement etc and disclose stock, profits and suppliers etc. Reading advise on the forum , I did not engage with Palmer Biggs bit did contact BMW directly as I have nothing to hide and the also firm had made some mistakes on their original letter, which made me feel that the letter could be a fake or not a genuine. I was told by BMW that the firm does represent them for IP infringement and that I should do what they say etc. I also received a letter from Palmer Biggs with a photocopy of a letter, which implies they do represent the BMW group.

 

Today I received another letter from the firm informing me that as we have not formally responded their client is looking to escalate proceedings if i do not sign their agreement with a daft court letter with Palmer Biggs claiming up to £15,000 in costs and damages on behalf of BMW.

 

Considering we have not sold many of the items they originally highlighted for over a year on the site and we are a company operating at loss can they really claim that amount? I'm unsure of how to respond, they have given 7 days to reply.

 

Advice would be appreciated.

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There is another thread on gag about someone selling parts on ebay dempsy40 username

Perhaps some one could put a link to it

As I not sure how to

 

I would be ignoring them they can demand what they like they would have to do court but they would need to prove any loss on their part


If i have helped in any way hit my star.

any advice given is based on experience and learnt from this site :-)

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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There are several threads regarding this company on CAG. Just pop Palmer Biggs Legal into the search engine.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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If i have helped in any way hit my star.

any advice given is based on experience and learnt from this site :-)

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ignore them

 

all you are doing is lining their pockets to fleece others by paying them.

 

they have never done court

 

just simply send threat-o-grams hoping to find a mug to fleece.

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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Thank you for the responses and the links.

 

 

Those are the links, which I read previously.

There has been many threads opened but none that detail the final outcomes.

 

 

I think it is best that we formally respond to their letters,

and will detail some changes we have made on the site as a gesture of goodwill and at our own cost,

but if they decide to escalate matters further then we would also look to claim costs and loss of earnings ourselves

due to taking the site down whilst we sort this matter out.

 

 

I will also state that we are not prepared to sign and provide any undertakings, unless they have proof of damages etc.

 

Will keep you posted, but i doubt they will back down unless they get some monetary settlement.

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no you ignore them

 

 

the reason why there are few 'endings' is because people did just that.

 

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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The moment you give ground there is a big danger that they will raise the pressure


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

 

The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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The issues that concerns me most,

is how such a firm is allowed to gain authority from BMW to handle such matters.

 

As stated in my initial post, they did sent through a copy of a signed letter from BMW and also BMW themselves confirmed that they had contacted Palmer Biggs after I contacted BMW directly via email.

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none

simply a money making exercise at your expense.


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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none

simply a money making exercise at your expense.

 

so what you are saying is the the firm have authority from BMW to protect IP rights, but how the firm go about it is totally independent of BMW i.e. asking for money etc?

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It's a bit like rlp really

And the downloading of films copyright protectors...

 

The money they fleece from people goes directly to their pocket to fund sending out 1000s of other letters to fleece more mugs

 

Dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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so what you are saying is the the firm have authority from BMW to protect IP rights, but how the firm go about it is totally independent of BMW i.e. asking for money etc?

 

They will have instructions from BMW to send out the letters requesting payment but they would probably need permission from BMW to actually take it as far as issuing Court proceedings.

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I hope this response finds the op with no extra hassle than just the original threatening letters.

 

This is just my opinion - but from what I have read and know about PBL they do seem contact a lot of online sellers and Ebay users and attempt to scare them into either paying up funds or giving up supplier details - And in turn doing their leg work for them.

 

The above replies are probably the best course of action, by not replying / engaging with them you are limiting any incrimination. No matter what though, do not sign and return any of their demands.

 

Buy removing the items from your website shows you are listening and obeying the wishes of there "client" BMW

If you do respond to PBL, I would only mention the fact you were unaware of the copyright issue, and have removed the items from your site and sale.

 

For PBL to hit you with another letter stating the amount of £15,000 is ridiculous, as I believe they would need to have some sort summary from yourselves to give an idea of total sales and costs layed out / profits made.

 

Best of luck and hope all is well

 

F3l

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Just a quick update....

 

. After considering opinions and various points of view, thank you all for the responses,

 

I did send them quite a forceful letter explaining our views on their claims and gave some detailed response to their claims without admitting any liability, and also emphasized that we would seek to compensation due to loss of earnings if they decided to escalate matters as the site has been down since receiving the initial letter.

 

Four weeks later we received a letter from PB stating that their client would no longer be taking matters further as we had taken steps to changes parts of our site as a gesture of goodwill,

 

but they still demand we sign their agreement within 5 days.

 

If they are now willing to change their minds about perusing matters after we have admitted no liability,

 

why would we then sign their agreement, which may incriminate us or hold us accountable?

 

PB make no sense to me.

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Sign nothing !!!!!!!!!!

Keep the letter safe.

 

Know you ignore them

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Sign nothing !!!!!!!!!!

Keep the letter safe.

 

Know you ignore them

 

Totally agree with f16.

 

Pleased to hear of your positive response from PB, my advise would be get the site back up and running minus the infringing items, and get back to normality.

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Totally agree with f16.

 

Pleased to hear of your positive response from PB,

my advise would be get the site back up and running minus the infringing items, and get back to normality.

 

It is a positive result so far,

 

 

but we have received a few more letters again stating their client will no longer take action as long as we sign an return the agreement

or matters will again be escalated.

 

 

We have made changes to some product images on the site, but we have done so as a gesture of goodwill

and admitting no liability or accepting their claims are true.

 

 

I don't see any real conviction behind their claims as they are no longer asking for costs or damages,

but I don't see how this will go away if we carry on ignoring them.

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it never does if you respond to them.

 

 

bit like RLP

they think by sending one more letter you'll crumble

and give them 'something' for all their hard work in trying to fleece you.

 

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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