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    • Calm Down please.... there is only one way to deal with this and that is - PROPERLY. Being surrounded by 'lawyers' who deal with 'disputes', just like going to the likes of CAB, in this instance has, most probably, to date,  sadly not helping you here. Such people always project an Aura of confidence, when the truth is they don't actually have the vast successful experience of the members here in dealing with the likes BMW. there are over 350 threads here . as far i gather this is the situation, In April, a car was purchased by your son from BMW. Finance taken out to purchase it has since been paid in full, as well as full payment for an annual Insurance policy. within 6 weeks, it was discovered and confirmed in writing, via a report from a local garage, that the car indeed had numerous performance modifications undertaken. Namely being remapped and with modifications to the exhaust system. having contacted his ins co, they require a further £5k to uprate his policy, without it renders the existing insurance policy invalid, thus the car is not being driven.  again within this 6 weeks, you wrote to BMW rejecting the car (we need to see this letter please. scan it up to PDF, please read our UPLOAD guide). at first BMW were onboard, even sending their own inspector, confirming the mods etc. but in the last 9 days since said inspection, comms have now gone dead. .................. you have 2 options - 1 - allow BMW to sort the car FOC and without hassle to him, but probably within their own snails pace timeframe. 2- EVENTUALLY bring legal action - this would most probably be under contract law, not a claim under the consumer rights act . (as financially you would lose out big time) to do 2. which is not easy and rather complex to calculate the financial sum involved...... we need all the info @BankFodder has requested. of many, but one good reason for this is say for this new mot, show the old one was suspect, good bargaining chip against 2500mls usage deductions... your call but you need to do this properly or not at all...............    
    • Hi, I've been reading through many of the stories in the sub-forum and I understand the process to be to send a Letter of Claim to the EVRi - in the post and to their customer support email and to sign up for MCOL.  I have looked at the various Letters of Claim and the MCOL claim forms - particulars of claim and I have gone through all of the screens on MCOL website to put in the final details so it is ready to go after the 14 days from when I send the Letter of Claim (of course assuming that EVRi dismisses my Letter of Claim to pay me in full!).  I also see the advise is to decline any mediation particularly because I have specified the parcel contents and value to EVRi when shipping it. I have put both the Letter of Claim and the forms from the MCOL particulars of claim into a single PDF for review.  The stories in the sub-forum often indicate people shipping with EVRi but some purchase through or have involved such companies as Parcel2Go and so I wasn't sure about the statement I made in the Letter of Claim if it was totally accurate to say "I am applying my third party rights under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999"? I just wanted to confirm the correct wording.  In my case the parcel shipment was paid for on the EVRi website and sent at the Tesco EVRi Parcelshop.  On the MCOL claim form I have referenced Section 57 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 in response to EVRi customer service hiding behind their lack of ability to insure delivery of laptops and their bogus non-compensated and prohibited items as a means to avoid any responsibility for them losing such items. Thank you for taking a look to see if there are any inaccuracies or amendments to the Letter of Claim - when it is looking good I will send via email and post it to EVRi.  Having drafted the particulars of the claim on MCOL, I shall be ready to submit the claim on the MCOL site when the 14 day period has elapsed and proceed from there.   Thanks for everyone's help! Letter of claim and MCOL Particulars of Claim.pdf
    • Wow quite surprised by your response in all honesty as I can’t see where you have requested details of the car. The car is insured and that was budgeted for and paid in full, the increase of £5k is because of the modifications, which no we didn’t budget for as we didn’t plan to buy a modified car, so no that doesn’t form any part of wanting to return the car, perhaps you don’t understand the impact modifications have on insurance premiums? Thanks for your help so far but feel going the legal route probably suits us better.
    • new thread created for the court claims. please complete this twice and i'll make another thread from the 2nd PDL Claimform we need to keep them sep.  
    • Most banks do not have any customer service staff available to support those opening a new current or savings account, according to research for Investec Bank.View the full article
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Hi All,


I had applied for TE7/TE9 application recently for out of time witness statement towards a PCN, which got rejected. I intend to file N244 for a review of the decision and needed advice in relation to it, which will be much appreciated.


Overall issue-

-> 2 PCN from London Borough of Redbridge with contravention date 10th and 12th Feb 2015.

-> As per claimant witness statement for both the PCN

- NTO 18th FEb 2015

- CC on 24th Mar 2015

- OR/WS on 15th April 2015

- WoC on 28th May 2015

- SD out of time on 19th Aug (1 day before it I got to know about it from enforcement agency Confero and applied for TE7/9)

-> Moved to new house on 14th Feb and applied for DVLA address change . DVLA updated it on 25th Feb 2015.


Detail Event


I am starting with the order of events in chronological order best to my recollection towards it before I present my queries. .



18th August, 2015

1. I received two letters from ‘Confero Collection’ heading Notice of Enforcement in the evening.

Letter 1

Issue Date – 13 August,2015

Payment Due Date - 25th August 2015

Money Owing to – London Borough of Redbridge(LBR)

Amount – Debt - £ 172 ,Compliance Stage Fee - £75 = Total £247

Letter 2

Issue Date – 13 August,2015

Payment Due Date - 25th August 2015

Money Owing to – London Borough of Redbridge(LBR)

Amount – Debt - £ 172, Compliance Stage Fee - £75 = Total £247


19th August, 2015

2. I called up Confero in the morning asking what the notice is about. The Lady on the phone said it’s towards the two PCN for which I owe debt to LBR and helped me to view the CCTV image of the same from the Redbridge website. Before I could explain or contest on it, she told me I have to call up LBR council in regards to it.


3. After speaking to Confero I tried calling to LBR and manage to get the right person around lunch time. I mentioned the two PCN no# and tried to explain the situation towards it. The person explained he cannot do anything or help me out as the matter is in the county court and I have to get in touch with TEC to get it off from court proceedings before they can here any of my contestation and suggested that I should do it right away.


4. Then after having lunch I tried calling TEC and after repeated attempt manage to get somebody over phone. I explained the situation and gave the two PCN no# and she said I have to file TE7/TE9 (which she emailed me later after the call )separately for each PCN and email it back to them .Once they receive the correct application, and if its before1600 hrs, then it will be processed and notify LBR the same day. After which I will have to wait for the decision.


[My understanding after the call was that was once they receive the correct application it will be off court proceeding and decision will be on the PCN. So I intended to call LBR next day to talk on the PCN and explain my situation before they make the decision.]


5. After the above call I got the TE7/TE9 form from TEC, which I filled up correctly for both PCN.

In TE9 My declaration was - I did not receive the Notice to Owner /Penalty Charge Notice

For TE7 I didn’t paid much thought on reason when I was filling it and gave below explanation, which at that time was the reason for filing it. I was in rush to apply the application so that they receive it before 1600 to get the whole thing off from the Bailiff’s involvement.


“I did not receive any communication on this until 18th August 2015 (from enforcement agent). I need additional time so that I can discuss this with Redbridge Council.”


[Which I regretted later for not providing full details]


20th August, 2015


6. I called up LBR in the late morning to check if they have received any communication from TEC and then explain the situation on the two PCN itself. The Lady over the phone confirmed receiving the fax from TEC on TE7/TE9 for both the PCN. But said she cannot do anything towards the PCN and I have to wait till LBR makes a decision on the application that I filed with TEC. Then I told her that I am confused as I thought whole thing I did was to discuss about the PCN itself with LBR and any further explanation went in vain. Towards the end of the call she said she will be informing the Enforcement Agency (Confero) to hold the enforcement action till further notice from LBR, when I asked about it.



4th September, 2015


7. I received two letters from LBR towards two TEC applications that I filed in regard to two PCN. Both the letter explained the council wishes to oppose the Out of time Statutory Declaration


The letter also included document heading “Witness Statement of Claimant: London Borough Redbridge”.


Letter 1 (1st PCN)

Dated – 26 August, 2015

Contravention Date – 12th February 2015 – PCN issued from CCTV

18th Feb 2015 – PCN was sent to respondent by 1st class post. No representation or payment received.

24th Mar 2015 – Charge Certificate was sent to respondent by 1st class post. No representation or payment received.

15th April 2015 – Order Recovery/witness statement Notice was sent to respondent by 1st class post. No representation or payment received.

28th May 2015 – Warrant of Control was issued to Enforcement Agent

19th August 2015 – a faxed copy of respondents out of time Statutory Declaration received from TEC.

The letter included the details of what they advised me over the phone and the reason to decline it is as below:-


“The statutory declaration was made from different address than to the address PCN was issued and respondent has given no indication in the statement that they have moved or to confirm they have their mail redirected. Therefore respondent didn’t take adequate measure to notify DVLA or have their mail redirected. “


Letter 2 (2nd PCN)


This is exactly same as above except the contravention date – 10th Feb 2015




[i moved to new address on 14th February 2015 evening and applied for address change to DVLA on next working for both Driving license and Vehicle logbook. The new logbook that I received later has updated entry as of 25th February 2015. So DVLA should have the new address from 25th February 2015.


Regarding mail redirection, I did not do it as I had applied and got the address changed for bank a/c, utility…etc over phone and wasn’t expecting any letter. ]


7th September, 2015


10. I called up LBR in regards to the letter received above on 4th September 2015 and explained the DVLA address change dates to see if they will listen to me and change their decision before they notify TEC of their decision . It seemed it was the same lady from LBR I spoke on 20th August 2015 but was disappointed to find her persistence on the fact that it’s my mistake that I had not set up the mail redirection and didn’t listen to any of my explanation . She confirmed towards the end of the call that they are going to decline it and I cannot do anything to change their decision.



10th September, 2015


11. I received two letters from TEC in regards to my TE7/9 applications.

The letter is dated 7 September 2015, pretty much with same standard response format that I see here in the forum, that’s it’s refused and I have 14 days to file a review through N244.


I needed some advice on the mail redirection part , can that be viewed by district judge as negative aspect in reconsidering the appeal .Does it mean it can be used for legal argument.



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90 percent of the account above is not relevant to the situation. The TE7/TE9 contests the bailiff warrant, and it would be on the grounds that you did not receive prior correspondence, because you moved house between the PCN and the NTO.


That's all you need to say - and on the forms, they would need you to tell them that, with the dates and preferably some evidence. There's no way they would accept it on the basis that "I need additional time so that I can discuss this with Redbridge Council".


That said, there is a serious question mark over the matter of whether the warrant can be enforced, and I don't think it can since you have moved.


I also think you are entitled to file another TE7/TE9 - which might be a better option than the N244 (and free!).


You actually have a strong hand, if you can prove the date of the move. (Forget the mail redirection bit, and the DVLA bit etc - it's not important.)


There's a resident expert on the forum on these matters, and she's usually to be found over on the bailiff section, so...


MODS: please could you move this thread over to Bailiffs.

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Another update I called up TEC about the deadline . The lady over the phone said -


1. She has sent two N244 form for the two PCNs and 14 weekdays deadline start date is from today ,as per her , the moment I acknowledge the receipt of the forms over email.


2. Two N244 application will be handled independently even if I link it , which could mean reviewed by different judge and different outcome.

Even though the contravention is same ,parking fine on same location, and all notice dates were also same.


3. She said application itself should not take too much time as I can email them the filled application and pay it over phone . To which I said I am arranging some documentation as evidence to my appeal from the council on move date which could take couple of days . She maintained they don't need evidence as such but its up to me to do that.


4. About 50 GBP refund in case of success the response was vague and tried to confirm if its non refundable . There was no straight answer and she said its district judge change and is not going to TEC pocket. So, I am assuming its non refundable.


I am planning to send the evidence anyway along with application, last council bill of previous address to show move date and DVLA logbook for address change date.


The new deadline is a bit of relieve . I am taking her word on it , bit reluctant though.


what is your view on this.



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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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Jamberson, thank you for moving this query to the bailiff forum.


There is a LOT to read here so I will do my best to answer this evening if possible. Unfortunately, my much loved MacBook has finally died and for evening use, I am having to get used to an iPad to post (so please excuse any mistakes).

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I have read through your very detailed posts and what is clear is that you had excellent grounds for filing Out of Time witness statements and if the forms been correctly completed I have no doubt that your applications would have been accepted. Unfortunatley, as I think you now realise, you had not completed the forms correctly and had not provided a REASON as to why you had not received any prior statutory notices.


The correct procedure now is for you to complete two N244 Applications but it is vitally important that this is properly completed and evidence provided. If you wish, I can provide draft wording for the N244. Unfortunately, I have a meeting in London tomorrow so I will be unable to get the draft ready until early evening. I hope that this is ok.

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Thanks for your reply and patience in reading it . I have been following this on pepipoo forum also ( forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=101427&hl= ) and have received some good feedback in preparing my N244 response. I will appreciate if I can have some more feedback on it.


Below is the exact witness statement of defendant that I am planning to send for one of the PCN ,please let me know if you see any issue and thanks again for your help and patience.



Date 21/09/2015

Notice Number – XXXXX

Vehicle Registration Number – XXXXX



Witness Statement of



I, XXXXX, resident of XXXXX state:


1. I am providing existing and additional facts and evidence to best of my knowledge; documents listed out in annexure at the end ; and from the letter received by me on 4th September 2015 as Witness statement of Claimant from London Borough of Redbridge.


2. I had moved to new address aforesaid on 14th Feb 2015.


3. I had applied to DVLA for address change of my Driving License and Vehicle Logbook (V5C) on 16th Feb 2015(next working day after day of move) as per the DVLA procedure and the new address was recorded on 25th Feb 2015 by DVLA.


4. I have not received any of the letters below as per witness statement of claimant ,as they were all apparently sent to out of date address :-

a. Penalty Charge Notice sent on 18th Feb 2015

b. Charge Certificate sent on 24th Mar 2015

c. Order Recover/Witness statement Notice sent on 15th April 2015


5. First correspondence that I received in this regard was from enforcement agency CONFERO Collections Ltd on the evening of 18th August 2015 .I have handled the matter promptly since then as per the procedure to best of my knowledge through out the point of time.


6. In reference to additional reason cited for refusal in the ,Witness statement of Claimant from London Borough of Redbridge, letter I was not able to setup mail redirection for below reason :-

a. The original agreed house move date with Property Agency was 23rd Feb 2015 based on my notice serve date and the agency added a conditional clause that I can leave early if they find a new tenant before the above agreed date, based on my request of preference.


b. I was communicated over phone couple of days before 13th Feb 2015 that I can leave by 13th Feb 2015. I did not have sufficient lead time at that time to setup a redirection as required by Royal Mail. Nevertheless, I informally had requested to the Property Agency to keep any of my mail in case they receive it, which I believe now was overlooked.


7. To conclude , I moved to new address on 14th Feb 2015 and applied to DVLA for address change on 16th Feb 2015 .The PCN was not issued and posted until 18th Feb 2015 .It was posted to the previous address as the update to the Registered Keeper address was apparently not yet processed by the DVLA. If the PCN was delivered in mail, I had already moved out of previous address. So, I believe I have been deprived of my right to appeal the matter to the independent adjudicator.






1. Scan copy of V5C document

2. Electronic Copy of Council Tax Bill of London Borough of Havering

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Peppipo are an excellent motoring forum and the above draft is not too bad (although a lot of the information is really not necessary). As I said last night I am happy to provide a draft for you but I am currently on my way to London to meetings and will deal with this when I return later.

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Thanks again for your reply, please also provide the N244 draft that you mentioned earlier .Can you also please let me know which information is unnecessary.


Also the information I have prepared for N244 draft(especially point 3 & 6 in the draft) is based on below understanding


I am assuming the judge will read my appeal under the context of the Claimant's Witness Statement(LBR)(Just to double check ,which am not submitting with my appeal) which he will have access to it somehow . A copy of my appeal will also be sent to LBR and judge will seek LBRs response before giving decision.

And my appeal wont be considered on its own based just on the appeal evidence statement.


Please correct me if I am wrong.


So with above assumption I have below statement from claimant (LBR)(Witness Statement of Claimant: London Borough Redbridge received on 4th Sep 2015 ) in exact wording explaining the reason of refusal.


"....We would like to take this opportunity to advise the Respondent has filed the statutory declaration out of time and statutory declaration under a different address (New Address ) which differs from the address given below .The Respondent has given no indication in their witness statement that they have moved address or to confirm they had their mail redirected. Therefore we don not believe the respondent took adequate measure to notify the DVLA of the address change or have their mail redirected...

(Old Address)..."


Please note the underlined statement from the claimant LBR. Don't I have to counter it in my appeal .


Now again if judge is going to decide entirely based on my appeal statement , then I guess I don't have to .


Overall idea am trying is to go with safer option and also don't want to add unnecessary things to confuse .

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Tomtubby (or should I call you Bailiff Advice these days??) what would happen if the OP just accepted that the TE7 was rejected, didn't file an N244 but did file a new TE7/9 with the pertinent info included? Would it be processed and accepted, or does something have to happen before it can be filed?

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Tomtubby (or should I call you Bailiff Advice these days??) what would happen if the OP just accepted that the TE7 was rejected, didn't file an N244 but did file a new TE7/9 with the pertinent info included? Would it be processed and accepted, or does something have to happen before it can be filed?


You can call me whatever you like Jamberson. I have come across people submitting a 2nd OoT but the TEC computer gremlins throw the application out and if you think about it logically, people could simply keep submitting an Out of Time in order to get the warrant put on hold.

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That's true. I think there's rule about the number of times you can file one (something ridiculous like nine), but that's if you have them accepted and reverted to NTO, but then do nothing and go through the whole cycle back to warrant stage each time.


Anyway, you answered the question - N244 or nothing, it seems.

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