Parking Charge Notice - UKCPS

[Adojay]

Hi All,

 

I would appreciate any advice on this.

 

 

I am always very meticulous about where I park my car due to being stung in the past by parking wardens.

 

 

On this occasion, I parked my car lunch time today by the side on the road on a private land in a shopping centre

to queue up to withdraw money from an ATM machine opposite.

 

 

Surprise surprise, I stepped into my car a few minutes later to discover Parking Charge Notice on my windscreen.

Time of issue was 12.42, while time first observed was 12.37.

 

 

Reason for issue states observed parking.

 

 

Honestly, I don't know what that means.

 

 

I live local and have been parking there for years,

only when I want to withdraw money from the ATM,

and have never noticed any signs saying

DO NOT PARK or what the implication would be if I do so.

 

 

The first thing I did was to walk round the area to see if there are now signs warning motorists not to park there, or what the penalty would be.

 

The charge is £100. £60 if paid within 14 days.

However, I have 21 days to appeal the penalty.

 

 

Could someone please offer me any advice on what to do (apart from paying the money obviously),

and what chances do I have for a successful appeal?

 

Thank you

 

 

Adojay

[ericsbrother]

For the moment, do nothing as they now have to send a ntice to keeper between 29 and 56 days

after the event to be complint with the law on keeper liability.

 

 

If they dont do this properly then they can only chase the driver

and they dont know who that is unless you write to them and appeal their stupid ticket.

 

 

The wording about the appeal time on the ticket is cobblers and designed to catch you out.

 

So for the moment you wait and then if the NTK arrives within the specified time

you post up what they are claiming and then appeal that, if it is correctly set out.

[Adojay]

Thanks ericbrother.

 

 

I will wait for them to write to me, and I will post.

 

 

Just so you know, I walked round to see if any warning signs exist, but could not find any.

 

 

Am now wondering why they could give someone a ticket without any warnings,

or what the penalty would be for contravention.

 

 

In the past, I accepted and paid up because the notices were there,

and I took the risk but failed.

 

 

This time there wasn't any at all, at least visible from where I was parked.

 

Thanks eric

[ericsbrother]

That is something to bear in mind when you appeal the charge IF you get the NTK in time.

[Adojay]

I think I spoke too soon.

 

 

After work today, I drove back to the shopping centre to see if there were any notices I failed to take notice of.

 

 

I did indeed see notices as I drove in.

 

 

However, there wasn't any signs or notices around where I parked.

 

 

I don't know if that affects anything so far regarding how I approach the situation.

 

Any advice is welcome.

[Homer67]

If the signage is not visible from a car or is too far away from the parking space to be considered applicable to that space then the signs are non compliant. There are other reason why signs can be non complaint as well including the actual wording on them. For now you just need to wait for the NTK, if that comes outside of the 29-56 days then that's it, they cannot go any further. If you get the NTK in time you make your appeal on the basis of non compliant signs or anything and request a POPLA code. When you get the POPLA code come back for the wording in that appeal and you should be home free for the cost of 2 stamps.

[Adojay]

Thanks Homer,

 

I will sit tight and wait for the NTK, and will forward to the forum for your advise.

 

I appreciate your input.

 

Thanks

[Adojay]

Hi All,

 

As expected, I have now received letter from UKCPS re failure to pay the parking fine. Attached is a scanned copy of the letter. I am at a loss as to what to do now.

 

Eric, Homer & others, could you assist with how to proceed? I haven't written to them yet. Like I said earlier, there were no signs within meters of where I parked. Although, I did go back to take a look again, and saw that there were notices around the site, but none anywhere near where I parked.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Kind regards,

 

Adojay

[armadillo71]

And the reverse please.

[ericsbrother]

In your desire to keep your details hidden you appear to have blanked out the date, time and nature of the event that gave rise to this debt. If it is on the letter please tell us otherwise I could make a statement that is incorrect about this letter.

It appears that the letter is not compliant with the requirements of the PoFA and that your detail have been fraudulently accessed by UKPCS as they are not members of an AOS. They certainly arent BPA members and still claim that they are on their letters. Also, the claim should include a lot more detail about the time, place and amount of the debt and how much is still outstanding and why tey belive it is due.

So, in short you should write to them and say that the letter dated xx reference yyyy is not compliant with the requirements of the PoFA to create a keeper liability and so their demand for payment should be addressed to the driver of the vehicle at the time. The obtaining of the keepers details has not been done in good faith and a complaint to the DVLA will be made. A complaint to the BPA should also be made about abuse of their copyright material and the misleading reference to them.

There are other reasons for appealing but for the moment the above should suffice. If they write back and offer a method of appealing to an independent body it will be interesting to see who they refer you to.

Dont tell them where they are wrong, they should know their business and they are not being honest so let them make the next step after this.

[Adojay]

And the reverse please.

 

Two pages attached.

[Adojay]

My bad. You are right about the missing details. The missing bits are;

 

NOTICE TO KEEPER

 

Vehicle Reg number xxxx

 

Location Radclyffe Park Manchester Manchester M5 3FE

 

Time Issued 15/09/2015 12:42

 

Reason for issue: Without a valid permit or authority

 

BALANCE DUE £100 Please note it is now too late to pay the reduced charge

 

I just noticed if it helps that the location details are not exactly correct. Radclyffe Park is in Salford and not Manchester, and the full address and post code of where I parked (right in front of Travelodge) is 18 Markendale Place, Salford M5 3GW.

 

I will wait for your input after receiving these additional information before making any response to them.

 

Thanks for your effort.

[armadillo71]

You waited for the NTK as advised because it, and the NTD, have to comply with all the requirements of schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 to allow keeper liability.

It's late now but have a read of the act and see if they do;

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

[Adojay]

My bad. You are right about the missing details. The missing bits are;

 

NOTICE TO KEEPER

 

Vehicle Reg number xxxx

 

Location Radclyffe Park Manchester Manchester M5 3FE

 

Time Issued 15/09/2015 12:42

 

Reason for issue: Without a valid permit or authority

 

BALANCE DUE £100 Please note it is now too late to pay the reduced charge

 

I just noticed if it helps that the location details are not exactly correct. Radclyffe Park is in Salford and not Manchester, and the full address and post code of where I parked (right in front of Travelodge) is 18 Markendale Place, Salford M5 3GW.

 

I will wait for your input after receiving these additional information before making any response to them.

 

Thanks for your effort.

 

 

Guys, based on the additional information provided, what are the key points I need to respond to UKCPS?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Adojay

[Adojay]

You waited for the NTK as advised because it, and the NTD, have to comply with all the requirements of schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 to allow keeper liability.

It's late now but have a read of the act and see if they do;

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

 

 

Hi Armadillo,

 

Having gone through the link above, I can confirm UKCPS have dodged a bullet there by complying with the requirements of schedule 4 POFA 2012. My dispute remains that the signage warning drivers of parking restriction is no where near the area of the land that I parked and got ticketed for. If it was, there is no way I would not have seen it, as it was mid-day at the time of the said contravention.

 

Any clue on how to proceed would help.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Adojay

[armadillo71]

Hi Armadillo,

 

Having gone through the link above, I can confirm UKCPS have dodged a bullet there by complying with the requirements of schedule 4 POFA 2012. My dispute remains that the signage warning drivers of parking restriction is no where near the area of the land that I parked and got ticketed for. If it was, there is no way I would not have seen it, as it was mid-day at the time of the said contravention.

 

Any clue on how to proceed would help.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Adojay

 

Really... ? For starters, what is the period of parking?

 

8(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph*6(1)(a)*is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

 

(2)The notice must—

 

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

[Adojay]

 

Really... ? For starters, what is the period of parking? - Period of parking was 15 September 2015 at 12.37. Ticket was issued at 12.42. The NTK I received from UKCPS is dated 15 October 2015.

 

8(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph*6(1)(a)*is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

 

(2)The notice must—

 

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

- I have also noticed that the NTK does not state the period of parking but only goes on to state the time the ticket was issued. The NTD states time first observed as 12.37. From paragraph 8.2© of the rule, I thought it should have been repeated in the NTK

 

Eric, you mentioned earlier that UKCPS are not members of AOS and aren't members of BPA either. Do you still want me to first write to them and tell them that their letter is not compliant with the requirements of the PoFA and that my detail may have been fraudulently accessed by them, as they are not members of an AOS and BPA? And then write about Armadillo's points in my next correspondence with them?

 

As many points that I can use to compose my response to their letter would be welcome and appreciated.

 

Thanks to Eric, Homer and Armadillo

[ericsbrother]

Just write to them as the keeper telling them that the demand is not compliant with the PoFA and to refer the matter to the driver at the time.

You can then write to the DVLA, find out who accessed your details and complaint about making a false statement to obtain the keeper details.

[Adojay]

Just write to them as the keeper telling them that the demand is not compliant with the PoFA and to refer the matter to the driver at the time.

You can then write to the DVLA, find out who accessed your details and complaint about making a false statement to obtain the keeper details.

 

Thanks Eric.

 

Is it on the basis that they are not members of BPA as you stated earlier? Their letter has IPC and BPA logos. Does that not mean they are members, and as such can access keeper's detail from DVLA?

 

If I tell them their demand isn't compliant with PoFA, don't I need to point out why?

 

Please pardon my ignorance.

 

Adojay

[armadillo71]

'As registered keeper of vehicle reg. xxx xxx, I have received your parking charge notice xxxx xxxxx.

 

I wish to make it clear that as registered keeper I am not liable for this charge.

 

The conditions of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 have not been met.

 

Please address all further correspondence to the driver at the time of the event.

 

I am under no obligation to name the driver at the time of the event and will not be doing so.

 

No assumptions can be made as to the driver at the time of the event.

 

No further correspondence will be entered in to.'

 

 

That covers all you need to send. They will reject it and then you can appeal to the IAS with a more detailed appeal if you wish, just for comedy value if nothing else. They will also reject your appeal...

 

You are not liable for the charge.

 

 

For information UKCPS Ltd are IPC AOS members;

 

http://www.theipc.info/aos-members/u

[Adojay]

'As registered keeper of vehicle reg. xxx xxx, I have received your parking charge notice xxxx xxxxx.

 

I wish to make it clear that as registered keeper I am not liable for this charge.

 

The conditions of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 have not been met.

 

Please address all further correspondence to the driver at the time of the event.

 

I am under no obligation to name the driver at the time of the event and will not be doing so.

 

No assumptions can be made as to the driver at the time of the event.

 

No further correspondence will be entered in to.'

 

 

That covers all you need to send. They will reject it and then you can appeal to the IAS with a more detailed appeal if you wish, just for comedy value if nothing else. They will also reject your appeal...

 

You are not liable for the charge.

 

 

For information UKCPS Ltd are IPC AOS members;

 

http://www.theipc.info/aos-members/u

 

 

Thanks Armadillo.

 

I appreciate your effort. I have written to DVLA to find out if my details were even obtained legally. I will now be writing to UKCPS too with the information you have provided.

 

Thanks so much.

 

Adojay

[Adojay]

Hi Guys,

 

UKCPS have now responded to my letter stating unfortunately they are unable to consider my appeal. "Appeals must be received within stipulated time of issue. After receiving NTK the registered keeper may appeal if they have not already appealed as the driver". As my appeal was presented significantly late, the appeal procedure has now closed and the parking charge will stand. They wrote that the IAS provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type . However, as I I have not complied with their internal appeals procedure they will not engage with the IAS.

 

Please how do I proceed with this?

 

Kind regards,

 

Adojay

[Adojay]

Hi Guys,

 

UKCPS have now responded to my letter stating unfortunately they are unable to consider my appeal. "Appeals must be received within stipulated time of issue. After receiving NTK the registered keeper may appeal if they have not already appealed as the driver". As my appeal was presented significantly late, the appeal procedure has now closed and the parking charge will stand. They wrote that the IAS provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type . However, as I I have not complied with their internal appeals procedure they will not engage with the IAS.

 

Please how do I proceed with this?

 

Kind regards,

 

Adojay

 

For those who need to know. This was what I wrote to UKCPS.

 

I wrote to them challenging the PCN as keeper of the car on the grounds that;

1. The sum is disproportionate and does not represent a genuine pre-estimate loss

2. Sum is extravagant, unconscionable and cannot be justified

3. No evidence that they have any interest in the land

4. Notice fails to comply with schedule 4 of POFA 2012.

5. Signs not clear and ambiguous

 

I also wrote that there will be no admission of who the driver was and no assumptions can be drawn. I wrote they must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I will only appeal further if they offered POPLA.

 

Hope this helps

[Adojay]

Hi Eric, Armadillo and homer67,

 

Any chance of a response???

 

I received a letter from them last night demanding payment within 14 days or face court action to recover money plus cost. They say I had 21 days to appeal from when NTK was served but failed to do so in time. They are saying I could no longer appeal because my letter arrived late (which isn't the case because I have proof it was delivered and signed for within a week of receiving NTK). What they have done is ignore my appeal and waited for appeal period to lapse before writing back.

 

Am thinking of ignoring them but not sure if it's a wise move. Or do I write to them insisting they received my appeal on time, and have legitimate cause for appeal?

 

Would appreciate your help.

 

Adojay

[ericsbrother]

Tell them that they received the appeal in time and by refusing to consider it properly they are in breach of the Civil procedures regs regarding alternative disputes resolutions and their own trade associations ACOPs so should they decide to take the matter to court you will be seeking to have the matter referred back to the IAS for determination and seek a costs order for doing so.

As they have failed to identify the driver at the time and the PoFA doesnt apply any subsequent attempt to use the civil courts to obtain money by misrepresentation will be resisted and be reported as such to the relevant authorities