First Time Shoplifting RLP - Under 18, do I pay the 'fine'?

[johnsjohn40]

I was in Leeds when I decided I would do some shoplifting.

 

 

I had taken testers from a variety of different shops and hadn't been caught and then tried to take a pair of shoes from New Look

when I was caught by a security guard in casual clothes.

 

I was taken to the back of the room where I had to explain myself and told them that I had no previous convictions.

 

The police were called to verify this and it was true.

 

 

I was made to sign a Youth Community Resolution and told to pay a fine when a letter from RLP comes.

 

The shoes were worth £29.99 and I do regret trying to steal everything because I had enough money with me.

 

Do I pay the fine?

 

I don't want this situation to escalate any further so any advice would be helpful.

 

My friend had to sign the Youth Community Resolution form because I am only 17.

[dx100uk]

whomever told you RLP can fine you is WRONG.

 

 

it is not a fine

 

 

totally ignore them.

 

 

I've moved you to the RLP forum

 

 

have a good read of a few threads here

[renegadeimp]

Yep. COMPLETELY ignore them. The only thing you should send if you really want to send them anything is a one line letter of denial of liability. But i'd go with the ignoring part.

[SabreSheep]

"I was made to sign a Youth Community Resolution and told to pay a fine when a letter from RLP comes."

 

I think this needs to be investigated. It is unacceptable if the police are proven to be "enforcing" these unlawful penalties.. ESP on an under 18.

 

Any chance you could upload the YCR to the forum, but remove personal details.

[renegadeimp]

Depends if the police said it, or if the guards said that, and he's just put it in the same sentence

[SabreSheep]

Which is why we need the upload

[johnsjohn40]

I don't have the police form with me as it's being sent to my house. But I will upload when I receive it.

 

 

If I deny liability will they check CCTV as it is very obvious I stole?

[dx100uk]

I don't have the police form with me as it's being sent to my house. But I will upload when I receive it.

 

 

If I deny liability will they check CCTV as it is very obvious I stole?

 

 

deny liability to whom?

RLP?

 

 

they have no more legal powers to fine you than your cat.

 

 

ignore them TOTALLY

 

 

dx

[renegadeimp]

DX, i say deny liability because they cant then try and send it to a DCA for futher harassment if he starts ignoring their letters. Read the RLP threads and the content of their letters. Youll see why.

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG. Firstly, lesson learned!! OK, move on.

 

The community resolution. Was that imposed by the police? I assume so (did they actually attend the store)

 

It would help if you could name the store as there are two companies (RLP & DWF) who act for the stores. Even then, the advice is the same. I will assume this will be RLP chasing so it is my opinion that you should send one letter with two lines only.

 

" Any liability to you or any company you claim to represent is denied."

 

" I also refuse you permission to contact any other third party."

 

this is because you are under 18 and RLP have been known to contact parents (ignore if your parents already know or you live away from them)

 

The most important thing to remember, this is not a fine. It is purely an invitation to pay some fictitious amount dreamt up by RLP. You are allowed to refuse that invitation.

 

Don't worry when a debt collector starts writing as they have less rights than you to demand anything.

[johnsjohn40]

My mum and dad want this over and done with as soon as possible and are telling me to pay the fine.

 

New Look were the store that I stole from and was found stealing. The store security guard took me back and then he called the police. Neither of the police knew how much money the fine usually is and neither did the store security guard.

 

Does the Youth Community Resolution stay with me forever also?

 

I am feeling so panicky about the money as I don't want to pay it if there is a way out of it. But then again, I don't want to get into any more trouble.

 

Can somebody explain the debt collectors?

[dx100uk]

please tell your parents IT IS NOT A FINE

 

it is NOTHING TO DO with any judicial redress

 

only the police or the courts can FINE YOU>

 

a debt collector is NOT A BAILIFF

and has NO SUCH LEGAL POWERS

 

get you parents to read this thread and this forum.

 

dx

[silverfox1961]

Absolutely agree with DX. This won't go away any time soon as RLP are persistent but once you (or your parents) understand what rights RLP have (i.e. NONE) you will be able to file any letter in the suitable receptacle.

 

Read every letter thoroughly as they tend to say 'MAY' a lot but then go on to say IF a court judgement is obtained. Let's be clear. RLP cannot take court action, the debt collector cannot take court action and I haven't heard of a case where New Look (the only ones that can take action) did go to court

 

I am fairly confident in saying that there has been no court cases since July 2012 after a retailer (with the assistance of RLP) got a severe slapping by the judge.

 

In other words, tell your parents to read and understand the language used in an effort to mislead. RLP can do nothing!

[SabreSheep]

Even Better

 

Tell your parents to read this thread.

 

RLP have as much right to tell you to pay money to them as your next door neighbor.

[ericsbrother]

What does the letter from the police say? It is all very well us reassuring you that RLP are not part of the judicial process but if the police have ordered restitution in some manner then that should be for the stores losses and not someone else's profits.Post it up here or write it out with your personal details missed out and we can tell you what to say or do next. Whatever that may be it wont be paying RLP a penny so point your parents to this forum so they can see for thmeselves.

[maxxer]

This is interesting :

 

If you don't keep to the 'terms' imposed on a community resolution, then, the original offence is dealt with, as normal - IE arrest, and a caution, criminal record etc.

 

So, seems like the police are in fact forcing the payment, by virtue of putting it as a condition of the resolution.

 

He has the choice not to comply (IE not pay it), but the result could be a criminal record.

 

At least some enterprising coppers said things like 'pay £50 to charity', but this is like saying 'pay £50 to a random company'.

 

Or you get arrested.

 

 

 

Seems like CAG need to get involved and ask acpo for the cr guidelines, and see what they say about it.

[SabreSheep]

Maxxer you have made the assumption that the police have put "pay RLP" in writing. Until we get the upload, we cannot be sure that the scenario described is accurate.

[silverfox1961]

I also agree with SS. As we know, a Community Resolution can be as simple as an apology or something else and until we see exactly what has been said (or implied) we cannot say for certain.

 

No police officer can demand an offender pay a penalty to RLP. They could impose a FPN but only a court can order more.

 

IF (big if) the copper has said as part of CR to pay the 'fine' to the store then the parents need to raise a complaint with the Chief as this cop is going beyond his/her existing power.

[johnsjohn40]

Thank you for all the help. The YCR arrived today and in the conditions it says:

 

By accepting this Community Resolution, I agree to:

1. Provide contact details and co-operate with the local Youth Offending Service, who may contact me within 14 days. (this is printed out on ink so obviously is a must do for the crime committed)

2. Apologised to staff. (this is written by hand)

 

There's nothing mentioning paying a fine for RLP apart from what the security guard gave me. So what do I do?

[renegadeimp]

Follow that ycr to the letter and ignore rlp completely

[SabreSheep]

I was so hoping that they had mentioned it on the YCR so it could be challenged.

 

As above follow your YCR and let your parents know that the invoice you get from RLP is unlawful. They will send increasingly threatening letters, sometimes even mention this site, then they will send it to a debt collector who after 1 or 2 letters give up as they also have no legal right to collect the money.

 

As it is not a legal debt, it will not impact on any credit files either.

[silverfox1961]

Thank you for all the help. The YCR arrived today and in the conditions it says:

 

By accepting this Community Resolution, I agree to:

1. Provide contact details and co-operate with the local Youth Offending Service, who may contact me within 14 days. (this is printed out on ink so obviously is a must do for the crime committed)

2. Apologised to staff. (this is written by hand)

 

There's nothing mentioning paying a fine for RLP apart from what the security guard gave me. So what do I do?

 

Excellent. By following the YCR you shouldn't end up with anything on a criminal records check. You should find the team quite helpful although they may involve you with community work ( painting, cleaning etc.) They may even offer you a course to attend to address your behaviour.

 

With the apology, does it say in person or by writing? If neither, send the store a letter. Don't try to push your behaviour on to an external reason. Say what you did, apologise for the trouble you have caused them and state that you will not behave in the same way in the future.

 

As for RLP, when the puerile demand turns up, ignore it. I do hope they write to your parents (as they already know) then your parents can complain to them for breaching your data protection rights.

RLP are well known to use a debt collector after the initial attempts fail but remember what has been posted by me and others, they can do even less than RLP (who can do nothing)

[johnsjohn40]

RLP are suggesting that I pay £145. I'm going to refuse payment and just ignore the letters? I apologised in store and the police never mentioned anything about writing a letter, so should I still do that or leave it?

[silverfox1961]

As you have apologised in store, there is no need to send a letter. That is part one out of the way. Just part two to go.

 

As for RLP, yup, ignore them.

 

What I would like is a copy of the letter they have sent so that I can see if they have changed tactics so if you are able, can you post up the letter in pdf format however, make sure that all identifying details are obscured. Name, address, barcodes, reference numbers. In fact anything that could identify you.

[johnsjohn40]

I don't know how to do that so I'll just type it out.

 

"Under civil law, from the age of 14, a person is generally considered to be responsible for their actions. Your conduct gives our client the right to pursue a civil claim for "damages" against you in the County Court as this caused significant disruption to our client's business at those premises. Our client has sustained losses as a result of your wrongful actions which include the value of the good, if not recovered or fit for resale; the cost of the diversion of its staff's time and associated security and administration costs. The average cost to our client of an incident of this nature is between £300 and £500, before taking into account any goods or cash not recovered.

 

Recovering the goods or cash does not mean our client has suffered no loss. Our client is entitled to seek to recover from you the cost of the disruption to its business caused by your wrongful acts. This cost is calculated by reference to, amongst other things, the time spent by staff in observing, apprehending, interviewing you and undertaking all necessary internal and external procedures thereafter.

 

You will appreciate our client can only take into consideration information if it is provided. Our client relies upon its investigation file and the evidence of its personnel in the investigation to prove its claim. If you require any further information to understand the claim against you, or think that this letter is in any way defective, please let us know within the next 7 days.

 

Our client is well aware of the challenges of everyday life and the pressures that people experience, but wished you to understand the impact of your actions and accept responsibility for them. Although the costs our client is entitled to recover are considerable, our client seeks to use Civil Recovery as a deterrent against further incidents. A fixed contribution to all of the losses is therefore sought, in sum of £147.50. This does not include any amount for the property or cash as these were fully recovered.

 

Both RLP and our client wish to deal with this matter as sympathetically as possible and have no desire to place any additional pressure on you, however we do need to advise you of the legal position. This is a civil claim and is separate from any criminal proceedings or police action. We are required to refer you to the Practice Direction for Pre-action conduct which has been published in the Civil Procedure Rules 1998. The Court has power to impose sanctions on any party who fails to comply with the Practice Direction. There is an obligation upon each party to set out their case in full, to exchange documents and information and generally to engage in attempts to settle the dispute without the need for Court proceedings. We are also required to inform you that ignoring this letter may lead to our client starting proceedings which may well increase your liability for legal costs. We would therefore recommend that you take independent legal advice if you are in any unsure of your position.

 

We have put your case on hold for 21 days for you to consider your following options:

If you believe you have a Defence, to provide the details along with any of evidence upon which you rely.

If there are other factors you wish to be taken into consideration, to provide the details.

Settle the claim by paying the amount stated £147.50.

Negotiate an alternative settlement.

 

Please do not ignore this letter. If we do not receive payment or hear from you or someone on your behalf, within 21 days of this letter, we will write to you again."