ESA claim refused

[mashmallow]

my son recently made an ESA about 4 weeks ago only to find out that his claim was refused because he apparently claimed for a similar problem before and was signed off by ATOS so had to claim JSA. He has been without any income since the 18th August no letter was sent and now he has to wait until JSA is accepted. What I would like to know is there any financial help he can get to tie him over until his claim has been sorted out as I cannot help him because I have a very limited amount myself.

 

 

Please can anyone advise what he can do for now and also will they or can they backdate his claim?

 

 

Many thanks

 

 

Mashmallow

[mashmallow]

My son recently claimed for ESA and came off JSA, he was told his claim was refused because he had claimed for a similar reason before hand which was dismissed by Atos. Basically he called and found this info out and was told to re-claim JSA which he did yesterday. In between it has been nearly 4 weeks since he has had any money, and now in financial distress, I cannot help him as I am struggling myself is there any organisation that can help him financially until his claim has been sorted out, please can anyone tell m. Also would or could they backdate the claims to the 18th when he signed off?

 

 

Please any advice would be appreciated

 

 

Regards

 

 

Mahmallow

[obiter dictum]

Well no, they cannot refuse.

 

That can only happen after you have had the ATOS inquisition

 

Chronic conditions as an example do deteriorate after time so what the result was back then, may not be the same now

 

Who said his claim was refused for that reason, was it by an adviser, telephone or letter?

[SabreSheep]

be aware of time constraints for mandatory reconsideration and appeal..

[obiter dictum]

I was thinking exactly the same but not my area

 

He needs to get that reconsideration in like yesterday

[mashmallow]

thanks for the replies previously it was for drug dependency, he did go for a medical and Atos said he was fit for work even though on methadone and tranquilisers. So he claimed JSA, JSA started their torture tactics, how can a man on methadone and tranquilisers carry out a construction job such as labouring, which could be a danger on site, so he signed off and went back on ESA to be told that his claim was basically not valid as it is similar to the last condition when he claimed. No letter has come only was told by an advisor on the phone. He sent his a fit note from his GP???? don't know what now to do

 

 

Mashmallow

[obiter dictum]

He needs to do that reconsideration like yesterday with the DWP

 

Someone will be along shortly with a link on the procedure but i do know they do not give you long from the time they stated your claim has been declined

 

Please stay on line until that link has been posted

[Nystagmite]

To make a new claim within 6 months, he would either need to have a new or worsening condition.

[obiter dictum]

Like i said, not my area

 

I was under the impression appealing the ATOS and DWP assessment through the tribunal service

 

Do you not stay on ESA until that tribunal decision?

 

Mine took 6 months when i was unlawfully sanctioned

[mashmallow]

Does this mean he would be better off going on JSA and forgetting the ESA route?

[estellyn]

When was he found fit for work by ATOS?

 

does he have any other health issues which he didn't mention in the previous claim?

[mashmallow]

Now another occurrence, he went back to JSA considering he was not paid for 3 weeks money because apparently even though he was waiting for ESA he was not actively seeking work, how can you still seek work when you have got a sick note. He had enough hence JSA was paid on 4th week, he had lost the 3 weeks beforehand. Now he went to sign on Friday only to be told they have put him on a MWP which consists of working voluntary for 30 hours per week, he lost the plot and told them to shove their MWP. No notice was given to him to even prepare, he has no money for fares or food or even clothes, he is still on mediation for his drug addiction which they know about, no company will take you on on these terms. Now he will probably get sanctioned and god alone knows what will come next. Please can you let me know what he can do. This is totally a wicked way of getting their figures down, how is this going to encourage people to better their lives and also how do you still do the jobs searches they require. This cannot be right surely?

 

 

Mashmallow

[mashmallow]

If they sanction him which no doubt they will what can he do, please can someone avise.

 

 

thanks

 

 

mashmallow

[jason2723637]

EDITED TO ADD- as an above post there are time constraints for mandatory reconsideration and appeal it says one month im not sure but i think you still can appeal giving them an explanation why its late i guess in your sons case he could not cope with the associated stress of being found fit for work and was pushed onto JSA without giving much thought to the appeals route? also you said he applied again for ESA? is this prior to the 6 month period? or is it on the grounds of a worsening condition in that case i think you can disregard the rest of my post

 

what you tell him to do is go the appeals route others will know more then me on this but im in similar situation to your son like many others ie was on methadone maintenance for about 5 yrs (rehab in the community) till about 7 months ago and also on sleeping pills from my GP am still signed off sick (still in recovery and drug dependence therapy) but was also found fit for work by ATOS ...so am now appealing so can get ESA till my tribunal is heard (which could be six months or so) ....as i have heard also lot of ATOS decisions are overturned on appeal which on my opinion your son being on methadone should get found unfit for work as he obviously is not fit for work as i know being in a similar situation and have heard/read via different sources this to be the case for drug addiction and drug dependency and drug dependence therapy ie rehab and recovery which is a slow process... if not you can obviously reclaim for ESA 6 months after the ATOS decision which would of lapsed considering the time taken to appear at tribunal

 

NOTE - to appeal just tell your son to ring them up the ESA number say you want to appeal they will then say so you want to do a mandatory reconsideration you say yes as its by default you have to do this first before going to actual appeal they will ask you why what are the reasons ie your sons symptoms then if it was like mine you just get a letter saying if your being found fit for work has been upheld or not in my case it was upheld so i was still found fit for work so i went to appeal it says how to appeal on the letter stating the outcome of the mandatory reconsideration so just follow those guidelines its basically filling in a from and sending it to the HMCTS with a copy of your mandatory reconsideration letter DWP send you two copies but the form you gotta download or get it form your local CAB office its the SSCS1 form.

 

on the sanction on JSA i dont know other then a hardship fund of some sort so will leave for others more knowledgeable to reply on that BUT yes there upto no good massaging figures and what you have to try and do is in sarcastic tone "try your best not to bite the hand that feeds you" in other words they can make life harder when you least deserve it but you have to jump the hoops to get what your entitled to

Edited October 12, 2015 by jason2723637

[mashmallow]

Jason thanks for your time in replying, he has been on JSA for over 6 months he did not appeal when his medical failed, he signed back on JSA he still has the same condition

still on methadone and anti depressants, JSA started getting on his back to find work, he did his job searches and applied for jobs that he knew he could not do let alone the fact who would want someone with a drug problem working for them, then he was told he has to go and work this week for 30 hours in order to get his benefit, this was when he told them he was signing off. ESA said they refused because it was for the same reason, he still has a fit note which covers him till December. It has been over 1 month by a few days. Please can someone advise if he can still appeal, and also his doctor did not provide the correct terms of his condition hence them refusing ESA.

 

 

Any further help would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Mashmallow

[antone]

Further to what Jason said above, we have to consider that there are a couple of different issues in play here. As I read the timeline, it goes something like this (correct me if I get anything wrong):

 

• Your son initially made an ESA claim. He was paid this for a while, but failed the WCA (medical exam, basically) so his money was stopped as of 18th Aug
  
• He then claimed JSA, and while he eventually got some money he was or is not able, because of his condition, to meet the jobseeking requirements
  
• He made another claim for ESA, but this was refused because six months had not passed since the end of his last ESA claim and as far as the ESA department is concerned, it is a claim for the same condition for which he was originally refused ESA back in August
  

So, there are a few options. The first would be to consider an appeal against the original decision from August. This might be possible. Normally a decision must be appealed within 30 days (or rather, a Mandatory Reconsideration must be requested within 30 days) and of course, this time limit has expired. But it is possible to appeal a decision up to 13 months after the decision date if the claimant can show "Good Cause" for why the appeal was not made within the time limit. It's hard to say what might constitute "Good Cause" but one example might be bad or misleading advice given by DWP staff.

 

It would also be possible to make a new ESA claim within 6 months of the end of his last one, and be paid on it, if he has a new condition or his existing condition has significantly worsened.

[jason2723637]

you said hes been on JSA for 6 months I have to make some assumptions here does this mean its been upto or more than 6 months since his last ESA claim? ie 6 months has expired since his ATOS (WCA) being found fit for work outcome? if so couldn't he reapply for ESA ie make a new claim for the same condition. Otherwise try the appeal route as antone above has stated even though its late.

[mashmallow]

I am writing tb them today as he was given wrong information, Yes he attended interview with Atos they found him suitable for work therefore closed his ESA benefit, so he had no choice but to go back on JSA, hence all the s..t started flying forcing him to find work also knowing he is not an able person and on drugs and medication. The final straw was to put him on a mwp which he has to work for his benefits, this was the final straw, no notice, no money, no suitable clothing plus knowing the face of his condition. SoI now probably a line of suspension coming his way. He already lost 3 weeks benefit whilst waiting for his claim to be re-assessed only to be told the claim was refused and to go back to JSA which he did, he tried to get his 3 weeks money backdated, but JSA said he could no backdate because he was not actively seeking work, how does one seek work whilst being off sick, he filled in form to appeal this but has not heard anything about the 3 weeks he ha lost. It has been six months since he last claim ESA but the doctor did not put enough information on the fit note so ESA refused.

 

 

Hopefully not too late to appeal, but one question wold he still be able to qualify for any payments whilst appealing?

 

 

I thank everyone that has helped so far I don't know who I would turn to if not for the CAG

 

 

Thanks a million

 

 

Mashmallo

[jason2723637]

no probs as I said im in similar situation hope it was of some help... I don't understand how Sick/fit note got refused though it should just say drug dependency or drug dependence therapy and that he is unfit for work would suffice if hes past the 6 month period he can reclaim ESA others here who know more can advise if it be better to try and appeal now or better to just go back on ESA as its been over six months.

 

if he did appeal he would get ESA at assessment rate until he appears at tribunal but not sure how quick that is meaning after form is sent to HMCTS the appeal has to be lodged and DWP updated then I think he can send in sick notes im at this stage myself got letter from tribunal that they got my appeal just waiting for DWP to get back to me or I will ring the ESA office soon otherwise.

[mashmallow]

Back again, my son has sent a letter for a mandatory appeal, he has not had any income and was told he would have to go back to JSA so he signed back on today. He was told that he would have to do a MWP which consist of 30 hours voluntary work again, even though he is not a capable or reliable person because of his addiction and also waiting for a mandatory reconsideration. If he has to do this is this not a false claim because he is saying he is unfit????

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Mashmllow

[mashmallow]

Please can someone advise of the best course of action he has to sign on Friday which means he is looking for work and on the other side he has asked for a mandatory appeal? don't know whether coming or going.

 

 

Mashmallow

[fletch70]

EDITED TO ADD FURTHER INFO

 

How long is it now since your son was refused ESA by ATOS.

If it is now more than 6 months there should be no reason, with a suitable 'fit note' that he can not re-apply.

 

The challenge he faces i am afraid is that being on Methadone and other medication does not in itself make you unfit for work. I must congratulate him on trying to get himself off drugs, I know how hard it can be after having a stepson in a similar position 20 years ago. What he needs to show is why he is not fit for work , it may seem obvious to you but you need to spell it out in simple english for the DWP and ATOS as I think they would struggle to understand a Janet and John book ( or Peter and Jane when I was at school).

 

 

I really feel that you need some hands on help with your sons benefits claim, not sure which part of the country you live in but generally if you live in a city with a labour council the help available is greater . Otherwise CAB can be of some use, they do vary .

 

It really is difficult to give quality advice tailored to your son without greater detail which you may well not want to put on a public forum .

 

If I may suggest , and some would call it quitting, but when the job centre ask him to apply for a job or go to a work placement , just try and do it but at the interview drop in how hard you are finding it on the methadone program etc etc. Hopefully they will not want to take him on just yet until he gets himself sorted

 

As said above, I am most certainly not judging anyone for having an addiction be it drugs or whatever

Edited November 8, 2015 by fletch70
Adding Info

[jason2723637]

I was hesitant to add more only cos im reiterating what fletch said and others have said before as we seem to go round in circles not clear what the status of your son is with dates etc ie timeline and other details ....if it has been 6 months or more then he can re-apply for ESA and no need to go onto JSA or any interview for a work placement just tell him to reapply for ESA see his GP get sick notes and its done if he feels hes not fit for work due to the effects of methadone then like me and others in similar position would get signed of sick by his GP as I mentioned earlier in this thread the GP would put something on the lines of drug dependence therapy (or something similar) as the reason he's unfit for work as he did on mine I don't see how his sick note can be rejected as you stated " It has been six months since he last claim ESA but the doctor did not put enough information on the fit note so ESA refused." unless the GP not very good and does not know what hes/she is doing though I assume he got sick notes from this GP practice prior? without problems? so why would it be refused now.

[mashmallow]

Thank you for your kind help Jason and Fletch I am not ashamed of explaining his situation, it could happen to anyone and lady luck has not looked kindly on me as I have two sons on drug dependency and have had to bear this for over 25 years I am now nearly 60 and cannot see any light in the tunnel of darkness but hey carry on and smile.

I will try and explain more clearly:-

It was about 9 months when Atos found him fit so therefore he did not appeal and went and signed on JSA.

He signed off JSA 8th August and got sick note from doctor who put on sick note opiate type ???

ESA refused the claim saying it was for the same reason he had applied 9 months ago and dismissed the claim

He did not know he could appeal for a mandatory reconsideration so went back on JSA

His advisor is one of the worst person there he is very intimidating and very unhelpful and pushes the wrong buttons according to my son who is very short tempered and frustrated also has mood swings and angry burst of frustration

e was told he was not doing enough to find work so hense said he would have to commence 30 hours of work

My son signed off and put in a mandatory consideration to ESA which he is still waiting for a decision

He was told by ESA he would have to reclaim JSA as there was no other option for any income which he has done

Now the problem continues no money for the last 3 or 4 weeks lost count

When he went down to the interview his original advisor was sitting there smirking and said to him I thought you got a job and "you will be coming back to me" in other words I will finish you off so therefore once again wound him up

The thing is he is waiting for a decision for ESA to reconsider claim and also seeking work which he has to do to get JSA this is totally miscontruding I am dreading him going down there Friday this week he will probably flip because he is fnding life hard to deal with at present

I hope I have explained things more clear and would be greatfull if anyone could give me some direction

[tommy456]

Here are the DWP's rules

Repeat claims for Employment and Support Allowance

 

Before 30 March 2015 if you failed the Work Capability Assessment (WCA) and you reclaimed ESA you could be entitled to ESA immediately (pending a new WCA assessment) if your new claim was more than six months after your first WCA failure, even if your condition had not changed. This was known as the ‘six-month rule’.

 

New rules were introduced on 30th March 2015 which now end the ‘six month rule’ for reclaiming ESA.

 

If on or after 30 March 2015 you are reclaiming ESA after failing the Work Capability Assessment you will now not be able to claim for ESA again if you are found to be capable of doing some work after your Work Capability Assessment(WCA).

 

There are some exceptions when a new ESA claim will be allowed, the main situations are where;

 

• your current condition has got a lot worse
  
• you’re claiming for a new condition
  

There are other exceptions that may apply in certain circumstances.

 

If you have failed the WCA and you want to reclaim ESA it is essential that you seek advice from an experienced adviser before making a new claim to check if you fall into any of the exceptions groups which would enable you to reclaim.

And there is this which in some ways is a little less straightforward http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/esa-and-abolition-six-month-rule

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/409456/esa-repeat-assessment-regs-ssac-report-web.pdf

 

The did away with the 6 mth rule earlier this year, so unless the WCA was carried out before the date above, the new rules will apply, IDS's plan to stop the endless reclaims, which at the end of the day means more appeals, because someone is found fit for work by at the fascicle WCA by ATOS/Maximus doesn't mean that they are fit enough to work in reality, so it's meaningless and used as a tool by DWP to deny benefit payments to as many as they possibly can, that is the sole purpose of their existance