Dukes Bailiffs payment plan

[Lottielox85]

Hi,

 

After 5 months of us both being on low hours we got behind on our ctax.

 

 

I'm finally back at work and now we owe £1250 on our council tax.

 

 

I've offered them £275 a month which actually gets it paid off earlier than we would pay the council.

 

 

However they are asking for a lot of info I don't want to give them unless I have to.

 

 

They asked these questions in my reply to my email offer:

 

Are you currently Employed?

Full Time/Part Time?

Wages?

Who do you work for?

- Dependent children

- Does your partner work?

- Rent or Mortgaged property?

- NI Number

- DOB

 

What do I actually have to tell them?

 

Thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

in essence nope.

 

 

you say the debthas climbed?

 

 

so you've had a notice of enforcement and a visit too?

 

 

when did the council get the liability order too?

 

 

dx

[Bailiff Advice]

in essence nope.

 

you say the debthas climbed?

 

so you've had a notice of enforcement and a visit too?

 

when did the council get the liability order too?

 

dx

 

Sorry DX but once a Liability Order has been granted, debtors are under a LEGAL duty to supply financial information regarding employment details, national insurance number etc. This is outlined in Regulation 36 (Duties of debtors subject to Liability Order) of the Council Tax regs.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/regulation/36/made?view=plain

[Bailiff Advice]

Hi,

 

After 5 months of us both being on low hours we got behind on our ctax.

 

I'm finally back at work and now we owe £1250 on our council tax.

 

I've offered them £275 a month which actually gets it paid off earlier than we would pay the council.

 

However they are asking for a lot of info I don't want to give them unless I have to.

 

They asked these questions in my reply to my email offer:

 

Are you currently Employed?

Full Time/Part Time?

Wages?

Who do you work for?

- Dependent children

- Does your partner work?

- Rent or Mortgaged property?

- NI Number

- DOB

 

What do I actually have to tell them?

 

Thanks in advance

 

You will see in my above post that once a Liability Order has been granted there is a legal obligation (under Regulation 36) to provide financial information. As Dukes is acting as agent to the local authority, they can indeed request the information and many times, the reason for doing so is for the purpose of setting up an Attachment of Earnings Order.

 

Has the payment proposal been made to Dukes on receipt of the Notice of Enforcement? If so, bailiff fees should only be limited to £75.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/regulation/36/made?view=plain

[Peterbard]

To the OP i think the requirements of section 36 fill most of the questions asked by the bailiff.

 

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), relevant information is such information as fulfils the following conditions—

(a)it is in the debtor’s possession or control;

(b)the billing authority requests him by notice given in writing to supply it; and

©it falls within paragraph (3).

(3) Information falls within this paragraph if it is specifed in the notice mentioned in paragraph (2)(b) and it falls within one or more of the following descriptions—

(a)information as to the name and address of an employer of the debtor;

(b)information as to earnings or expected earnings of the debtor;

©information as to deductions and expected deductions from such earnings in respect of the matters referred to in paragraphs (a) to © of the definition of “net earnings” in regulation 32 or attachment of earnings orders made under this Part, the Attachment of Earnings Act 1971(1) or the Child Support Act 1991(2);

(d)information as to the debtor’s work or identity number in an employment, or such other information as will enable an employer of the debtor to identify him;

(e)information as to sources of income of the debtor other than an employer of his;

(f)information as to whether another person is jointly and severally liable with the debtor for the whole or any part of the amount in respect of which the order was made.

(4) Information is to be supplied within 14 days of the day on which the request is made.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Andyorch
Reference to remark removed.

[AndyOrch]

Posts removed from thread.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[madmatt101]

surely the billing authority is the council, not the bailiffs, therefore they do not have to be supplied the information!

[Bailiff Advice]

surely the billing authority is the council, not the bailiffs, therefore they do not have to be supplied the information!

 

In 1996 regulations were set up that allow local authorities to contract out many of the functions associated with council tax. The regulation is The Local Authorities (Contracting Out of Tax Billing, Collection and Enforcement Functions) Order 1996.

 

In this respect, Regulation 22 (e) permits the 'contractor' to ask the debtor to provide 'relevant' information in accordance with Regulation 36 of The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1880/article/22/made?view=plain

[madmatt101]

in which case the bailiffs must be asking on behalf of the council, state that is why they wish the information, and be able to show that this duty is being carried out by them, contracted out by the council.

 

there is a difference in enforcing a LO and adding fees and requesting the information because one has been made.

 

Just because the bailiffs are enforcing does not mean that they are contracted out by the council to gather the information.

[Bailiff Advice]

in which case the bailiffs must be asking on behalf of the council, state that is why they wish the information, and be able to show that this duty is being carried out by them, contracted out by the council.

 

there is a difference in enforcing a LO and adding fees and requesting the information because one has been made.

 

Just because the bailiffs are enforcing does not mean that they are contracted out by the council to gather the information.

 

The Contracting Out regs provide that a “contractor” means any person to whom an authorisation is given.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1880/article/1/made?view=plain

 

Further definition of 'contractor' can be found under the Explanatory Guidance:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1880/note/made

[madmatt101]

The Contracting Out regs provide that a “contractor” means any person to whom an authorisation is given.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1880/article/1/made?view=plain

 

Further definition of 'contractor' can be found under the Explanatory Guidance:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1880/note/made

 

You have failed to see the distinction I am making.

 

As an example of what I mean.

 

Imagine I am a council.

 

I have asked a Bailiff to collect money for me. Just because I have asked him to collect money, does it mean I have also contracted him out to gather information for me, despite me not asking him to gather that information?

[Peterbard]

Imagine you are a EA charged with the recovering a debt in full. The debtor makes an offer of an instalment payment, stating that this is all he can afford. The EA reports the offer back to the authority. Wouldn't the authority question that this is indeed all he can afford, and require an Income and outgoings statement.

 

Wouldn't the Bailiff look foolish if he didn't supply one with the offer.

 

Supplying an I and E is nothing new when asking a creditor or his agent to accept an offer of an instalment repayment, I do not understand the reason that anyone who is genuinely trying to settle the debt would not supply one TBH. Personally I would have sent one as soon as I received the compliance letter, or preferably earlier to the authority.

[madmatt101]

But the original question was whether onthe following questions needed to be answered

 

Are you currently Employed?

Full Time/Part Time?

Wages?

Who do you work for?

- Dependent children

- Does your partner work?

- Rent or Mortgaged property?

- NI Number

- DOB

 

to which the answer is no they do not have to be answered, but it may help your case, however the OP has offered to pay in installments that would clear the balance faster than if he had been able to continue paying the council monthly. The council would have a hard job refusing that payment offer.

 

My main point was in response to Bailiff Advice saying that the OP had a legal duty to supply the information, which is not always correct.

 

It may be in some cases, or it may not be. In the majority of cases it will not be, as when Bailiffs are collecting, the council are not going to go down the attachment of earning route as that is normally the first attempt and bailiffs are meant to be the last resort.

[Bailiff Advice]

 

My main point was in response to Bailiff Advice saying that the OP had a legal duty to supply the information, which is not always correct.

 

In fact Matt if you read my answer I actaully said the following:

 

Sorry DX but once a Liability Order has been granted, debtors are under a LEGAL duty to supply financial information regarding employment details, national insurance number etc

[madmatt101]

In fact Matt if you read my answer I actaully said the following:

 

Sorry DX but once a Liability Order has been granted, debtors are under a LEGAL duty to supply financial information regarding employment details, national insurance number etc

 

and which part of that post did I misconstrue?

 

They have to supply it, but not to a bailiff

[Peterbard]

and which part of that post did I misconstrue?

 

They have to supply it, but not to a bailiff

 

Maybe he does maybe he doesn't, by the same token the bailiff is not required to accept the offer, particularly if there is no supporting documentation.

 

I would have thought the contacting out provisions available to the authority would extend to his agent, otherwise what are they for ?

 

The council tax is due at the moment the bill is sent, the creditor pays in arrears in any case

 

Presumably you will want the bailiff to accept the offer. If he doesn't and the offer is as reasonable as you say, you can go to the authority and complain. but they will want to know what you base your complaint on, and if you have been cooperating with their agent. Really I do not see the problem

[Bailiff Advice]

and which part of that post did I misconstrue?

 

They have to supply it, but not to a bailiff

 

In all my time (9 years) of answering queries on this forum I rarely if ever mention anything personal about me. I will let you into a little secret. Not only do I hate arguments....but more importantly, I am a complete failure at them. I rarely ever win. Therefore, in this particular case, all I will say is that we both have our different views and there is nothing wrong with that at all.