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    • i point you to two threads whereby you'll see an explanation by andy (post 22 here) https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/410486-lowell-interim-charging-order-from-credit-card-debt-2009/?tab=comments#comment-4912902   and   https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/406428-remortgage-issue/   if yours says:    written notice of the disposition was given to XX Council ( - disposition = sold vis: disposed of) ..... notice means letter telling them it's been sold -    doesn't say it must be paid or settled BEFORE disposition..   that's the way i read it.          
    • dx100uk   You are absolutely correct. That's exactly what the wording is! And if that's the case then - happy days for me! However, I thought that:   1. This wording meant the conveyancing solicitor had to tell the council that the house was about to be sold so they were aware!   But you are saying that the council only needs to be informed AFTER the house has been sold? Can I tell the council that? [I think I've seen something on the internet that says I can, rather than the CS] Or do I need the conveyancing solicitor to contact the council?   2. That this wording wasn't a restriction K [as I'd looked at Schedule 4 of the Standard Forms of Restriction] and tried to match my wording to those listed - and thought restriction K was the closest.     3. That this was a non-standard restriction [and that's what the Land Registry told me too and that the restriction was not a Restriction K!!! [see extract below]   Please remember that when applying for a restriction not in standard form:   it must always contain the words ‘is to be completed by  registration’ rather than ‘is to be registered’. This will serve to make the effect of the restriction clear. The term ‘registered’, where used in any of the standard form restrictions, means the completion of a registrable disposition by complying with the relevant registration requirements prescribed in Schedule 2 to the Land Registration Act 2002 (rule 91(3) of the Land Registration Rules 2003), but this statutory definition only applies to standard form restrictions. Please note that we will not accept restrictions not in standard form for registration that contain the words ‘is to be registered’   So I'm confused now. IF it is a restriction K - then the conveyancing solicitor doesn't have to do anything and I can let the council know.   It seems it is dependent on the wording 'completed by registration' and 'is to be registered'???   Below is copied from Martin's MSE.   This relies again on the 'is to be registered' whereas my wording is ' completed by registration' which you say is restriction K and LR says is not.   I need to go to sleep now!   Thanks dx.   Extract from MSE below.   If your property is jointly owned a creditor will not be able to obtain a CO against you, they can only get what is called a restriction. The laws on Restrictions are totally different to Orders, the most important being there is NO OBLIGATION for you to pay any of the proceeds of the sale to the creditor. However, during the whole court process you go through the reference from all parties (especially the creditor) will be to charging order and NOT to restriction. This is done in order to deceive you believing you are stuck with a CO. However, not all solicitors are aware of the law in this regard and it is important that you raise this point with them in the first instance before proceeding with them Quote: Restriction The restriction which can be entered on the register where a charging order is made against one of joint proprietors is in the following form :- No disposition of the registered estate is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at [address for service], being the person with the benefit of /I]an interim[I/I]a final[I charging order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference.…).        
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    • you ring you bank    
    • i suspect the charge on the Land registry site against the house reads:   2. (XX.XX.2007) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate is to be completed by registration without a certificate signed by the applicant or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to XX Council at P.O. Box XX, STREET, TOWN, POSTCODE, being the person with the benefit of a Charge under Section 22 of the Health and Social Services and Social Security Adjudications Act 1983.   ..............   that is a restriction k and is useless to the council, as all 'legally' your have to do is inform them AFTER the house has been sold . then it's too late money has gone.   dx
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Demon1982

Athena ANPR parking 'fine' Lidl Streatham 29/08/15 - ** SUCCESS AT POPLA **

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[ATTACH=CONFIG]59612[/ATTACH]Sorry guys. I have re uploaded. Pics should be fine now.

 

I also realised when I was scanning the letters in. The rejection letter was sent on the 17th Sept and deadline is 19th Sept. I probable didnt receive it until then. Does this matter?

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If sent on the 17th it will be deemed as received in time unless you can show otherwise (they do have a habit of dating letters days before they send them.)

I note that they say you failed to mitigate any circumstances. Well, mitigation is what you do when you admit being in the wrong and want to reduce the culpability to the minimum. This has nothing to do with the appeal or the law.

So, now you appeal to POPLA but wait, they havent given you the POPLA code but expect you to write again and ask for it WRONG, they have 35 days after receiving your appeal letter to reject and supply the code. If they dont then they cannot claim keeper liability so now make a note on your calendar as to when they received your appeal and when the 35 days are up and you havent got the POPLA code you can tell them where to go should they send further begging letters.

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If sent on the 17th it will be deemed as received in time unless you can show otherwise (they do have a habit of dating letters days before they send them.)

I note that they say you failed to mitigate any circumstances. Well, mitigation is what you do when you admit being in the wrong and want to reduce the culpability to the minimum. This has nothing to do with the appeal or the law.

So, now you appeal to POPLA but wait, they havent given you the POPLA code but expect you to write again and ask for it WRONG, they have 35 days after receiving your appeal letter to reject and supply the code. If they dont then they cannot claim keeper liability so now make a note on your calendar as to when they received your appeal and when the 35 days are up and you havent got the POPLA code you can tell them where to go should they send further begging letters.

 

Hi Eric thanks for the reply.

 

Unfortunately they DID supply the POPLA code. It's on the bottom right hand corner error of the letter. I covered it in order to upload the documents.

 

So I will now need to appeal through POPLA. Has anyone you know don't it through the new system that they have?

 

Is there any particular angle I should try with the appeal? I'm not sure the old ways will work.

 

Thanks again.

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Hi Eric thanks for the reply.

 

Unfortunately they DID supply the POPLA code. It's on the bottom right hand corner error of the letter. I covered it in order to upload the documents.

 

So I will now need to appeal through POPLA. Has anyone you know don't it through the new system that they have?

 

Is there any particular angle I should try with the appeal? I'm not sure the old ways will work.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

This is the lastest on the new POPLA website;

 

new POPLA process is much speedier than before.

 

Previously the motorist received a confirmation email from POPLA giving a provisional assessment date 35 days in the future. The new process is that the operator has up 28 days to submit their evidence. However, as soon as they have done this the motorist is emailed to let them know the evidence is available.

 

 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/new-popla-process-much-speedier.html

 

 

What old ways will not work?

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10 minutes free parking to do your shopping at a supermarket... otherwise a £45 / £90 fine....

 

they fail.

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This is the lastest on the new POPLA website;

 

 

 

 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/new-popla-process-much-speedier.html

 

 

What old ways will not work?

 

No I was reading on the POPLA site and it was saying do not copy and paste laws and long winded clauses from other sites. Instead write in own words why you are appealing.

 

So the usual things I was going to use such as the charge is not proportionate and contracts with the land owners etc. Seems like I may not be able to.

 

Based on what I have provided what do you think is the best way to attack this?

 

Thanks again.

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Any final advice guys on what my appeal should be based on? Cheers.

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Hi Eric thanks for the reply.

 

Unfortunately they DID supply the POPLA code. It's on the bottom right hand corner error of the letter. I covered it in order to upload the documents.

 

So I will now need to appeal through POPLA. Has anyone you know don't it through the new system that they have?

 

Is there any particular angle I should try with the appeal? I'm not sure the old ways will work.

 

Thanks again.

I assume this is only what POPLA say,who are they to say what and where you get your appeal information from!.if you quote any law then it's the law and statute.you just use any input where ever you get it from,sod em.

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I assume this is only what POPLA say,who are they to say what and where you get your appeal information from!.if you quote any law then it's the law and statute.you just use any input where ever you get it from,sod em.

 

Yea it was from the POPLA site.

 

Thanks for that.

 

Can anyone tell me based on what I have posted above in various documents what grounds I should EXACTLY be appealing on?

 

Thank you. Time is ticking. I think I have 35 days from rejection is that right?

 

Cheers.

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You have 28 days, the 35 days is for them to reject your appeal. Firstly ask lambeth council planning dept if Athena have planning permission for their signs. If they dont they are there illegally and you cant enter a contract where criminality is involved. If this is the case then that will do as your appeal.

If not you say you do not believe the Athena have the authority to make claims in their own anme and so demand sight of the assignment of this right from the landowner. They dont usually hand over thweir contracts so the public can see them as they are often flawed so the usual situation here is that you win by then not offering any evidence.

You also say that in any case the amount claimed does not represent a loss caused by your action in a free car park not owned or managed by them in any true sense of the word as it is ANPR only. This means that the amount claimed is an unenforceable penalty under Dunlop v Selfridge 1915 and even if it is decided they do manage the site the amount is an unlawful penalty charge under Dunlop v The new Motor & Garage Co 1914

They may ask for a delay in the adjudication to await the result of PE v Beavis but if you can dont agree to this

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You have 28 days, the 35 days is for them to reject your appeal. Firstly ask lambeth council planning dept if Athena have planning permission for their signs. If they dont they are there illegally and you cant enter a contract where criminality is involved. If this is the case then that will do as your appeal.

If not you say you do not believe the Athena have the authority to make claims in their own anme and so demand sight of the assignment of this right from the landowner. They dont usually hand over thweir contracts so the public can see them as they are often flawed so the usual situation here is that you win by then not offering any evidence.

You also say that in any case the amount claimed does not represent a loss caused by your action in a free car park not owned or managed by them in any true sense of the word as it is ANPR only. This means that the amount claimed is an unenforceable penalty under Dunlop v Selfridge 1915 and even if it is decided they do manage the site the amount is an unlawful penalty charge under Dunlop v The new Motor & Garage Co 1914

They may ask for a delay in the adjudication to await the result of PE v Beavis but if you can dont agree to this

 

Eric thanks very much I will get in contact with lambeth council.

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Eric thanks very much I will get in contact with lambeth council.

 

Spoken to the council and there appears to be no planning permission for anything from Athena on the Lidl address.

 

There is an application for 1 sign from Lidl themselves but it's does not state anything about a car park, but also this is pending anyway and a decision won't be made until November.

 

So should I just solely go with that? Or add in the excess charge as well.

 

Cheers again.

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From lambeth council:

 

Thank you for your email to the Lambeth planning department.

 

Application 12/02497/ADV for 222-224 Streatham High Road was decided and refused in 2012 for display of two non-illuminated freestanding billboards lond the south-west boundary of the site, however, we have a current application 15/04938/ADV which is due for a decision on the 10th of November.

 

If you need any further assistance, please contact us on 0207 926 1180 or email planning@lambeth.gov.uk.

 

Kind regards

 

Christine Barnes

Customer Services Officer

Business & Customer Services

Enabling Cluster

London Borough of Lambeth

 

email: CBarnes@lambeth.gov.uk

website: http://www.lambeth.gov.uk

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then they are committing a criminal offence and you cannot form a contract even if you wanted to. Just go with that at POPLA and say that you are going to make a complaint of fraud by misrepresentation regarding the demand. Report the matter to actionfraud (who will do nothing) but at least you get a crime ref to pass on to POPLA. That will put them in an awkward position if they then make a perverse decision.

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then they are committing a criminal offence and you cannot form a contract even if you wanted to. Just go with that at POPLA and say that you are going to make a complaint of fraud by misrepresentation regarding the demand. Report the matter to actionfraud (who will do nothing) but at least you get a crime ref to pass on to POPLA. That will put them in an awkward position if they then make a perverse decision.

 

I looked into actionfraud. Looks like the type of claim I am making is not covered under their reporting policy. So instead to go to the police and log it? What do you think. I haven't spoken to actionfraud. Just read on their website.

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If you go to the local police they will tell you to phone actionfraud so you may as well just do that. AF dont actually do anything other than log it but if they get enough complaints the City of London Police investigate. The offence you are reporting is fraud by misrepresentation under the fraud act of 2006

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The council can enforce the planning act but all the parking co has to do is apply for PP and they will get it as it is a nod through unless it is a conservation area. However, the company must apply or they are breaking the law, as is the case here

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The council can enforce the planning act but all the parking co has to do is apply for PP and they will get it as it is a nod through unless it is a conservation area. However, the company must apply or they are breaking the law, as is the case here

 

This last bit lost me. So I'm going to ring action fraud. Will they give me a log number in which I will put to POPLA?

Also you say about they only have to apply for PP to get the nod. Which they have done but it's not due to be decided on until November..

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the no PP on the date of the supposed breach of contract so no contract to breach. Simples. Yes, phone actionfraud and get it logged. Nothing will happen but you ge crime ref to forward.t a

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the no PP on the date of the supposed breach of contract so no contract to breach. Simples. Yes, phone actionfraud and get it logged. Nothing will happen but you ge crime ref to forward.t a

 

Spoken to action fraud. Pretty useless actually. They say it's not a fraudulent matter but a civil matter and they cannot help. I raised all points as previously stated. They say I should contact citizens advice.

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They are wrong as it is a criminal matter to falsely claim that a contract exists when it doesnt, it is making a gain by misrepresentation but the truth is actionfraud are just phone jockeys who dont know the law and do nothing anyway. You couls ask again and tell them that you wish to make a formal complaint about them not logging a crime and want to take the matter further and speak to a real police officer about it if necessary. You wont get any action but at least they wil log something.

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They are wrong as it is a criminal matter to falsely claim that a contract exists when it doesnt, it is making a gain by misrepresentation but the truth is actionfraud are just phone jockeys who dont know the law and do nothing anyway. You couls ask again and tell them that you wish to make a formal complaint about them not logging a crime and want to take the matter further and speak to a real police officer about it if necessary. You wont get any action but at least they wil log something.

 

Hmm. Is it a must to deal with them. I was speaking to them for a while today and the lady whom I spoke to also asked her "supervisor" and the same was concurred.

 

Can I just say to POPLA that I have reported it to action fraud? Will they ask for the ref number?

 

Time is ticking. I think it's been 21 days since the rejection letter so I need to do this in the next couple Of days.

 

Thanks again. I know you must get bored of all this.

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You can do what you want, I was just pointing out that these parking companies are genuine criminals but no-one is interested in feeling their collars becuse it only affects people who dont matter in the eyes of the establishment.

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Hi all,

 

Today I received this.

 

Thank you for submitting your parking charge Appeal to POPLA.

 

*

 

An Appeal has been opened with the reference 0562605579

 

*

 

Athena ANPR Ltd have told us they do not wish to contest the Appeal. This means that your Appeal is successful and you do not need to pay the parking charge.

 

*

 

Yours sincerely

 

*

 

POPLA Team*

 

 

Thank you to all for your help and expertise.

 

It's another win for the Caggers!

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