Advice needed; Equine Livery Yard retaining part of Deposit. Court action intended.

[Roadrunner3]

Hi all, 1st post!

 

 

I recently had to move my horse from a livery yard on the basis of his welfare due to the yard owners management.

 

 

They since have retained £100 from my deposit. A written contract was also involved. I believe I have the deposit has been extorted and fraudulently held.

 

 

Before I post the full story....am I in the right place? Are there any 'horse people' or here or is that irrelevant, as in, facts are facts so post story and we'll see if we can help?

 

 

My biggest question is whether a Small Claims Court will deal with my case which involves a percentage of the deposit retained, bullying/harassment I received from yard owner before my Notice period had ended and the reason why I had to move the horse which constitutes 'unnecessary suffering' under the Animal Welfare Act due to the yards management.

 

 

Thank you in advance

[AndyOrch]

Hi Roadrunner 3 and welcome to CAG

 

I will move you to the correct forum were you will get the legal advice and whether any prospective court action would have merit.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Roadrunner3]

Hi Roadrunner 3 and welcome to CAG

 

I will move you to the correct forum were you will get the legal advice and whether any prospective court action would have merit.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

Thank you Andy. Please could you let me know where the thread has been moved to so I know where to find it! Thanks again, much appreciated.

[AndyOrch]

You are already here...in General Legal Issues.

[Roadrunner3]

You are already here...in General Legal Issues.

 

 

Thanks Andy, you're a star!

[AndyOrch]

Have you sought any guidance from or reported this to the RSPCA ? May assist and add clout to any claim......but for £100 alone hardly worth it?

[Roadrunner3]

Have you sought any guidance from or reported this to the RSPCA ? May assist and add clout to any claim......but for £100 alone hardly worth it?

 

 

Hi, the RSPCA would not be able to assist in this case. I am gathering statements from Veterinary/Farriery/Behaviourists as well as other Professionals within the industry.

 

 

The £100 is for the retained deposit and I have also incurred approx. £320 in costs to remove my horse, remedial work, dietary needs and other costs due to the yard owners detrimental management.

[AndyOrch]

" The £100 is for the retained deposit and I have also incurred approx. £320 in costs to remove my horse, remedial work, dietary needs and other costs due to the yard owners detrimental management."

 

Thats more like

 

Build your case.

[Roadrunner3]

" The £100 is for the retained deposit and I have also incurred approx. £320 in costs to remove my horse, remedial work, dietary needs and other costs due to the yard owners detrimental management."

 

Thats more like

 

Build your case.

 

 

I most certainly intend to Andy! I'm fuming!

 

 

I will add the story in full tomorrow and see what you all think.

 

 

Main points I need to investigate are;

 

 

whether the Small Claims Court deals with my believe that a near 50% of my deposit has been fraudulently retained, as I think I read SCC don't deal with fraud?

 

 

as above, do they deal with aspects of the Animal Welfare Act

 

 

and if I go to SCC with the intent of having the remainder of my deposit returned to me can I also claim the costs I incurred to remove my horse and deal with the issues caused by previous yard management?

 

 

As you can tell, this is the first time I've done this, I'm very naïve about it all!

[Roadrunner3]

P.S I have spoken to the British Horse Society Legal Team and they advised me to proceed through Small Claims Court.

[AndyOrch]

Whether the small claims Court deals with my believe that a near 50% of my deposit has been fraudulently retained (I think I read SCC) don't deal with fraud?

 

Then don't refer to it as fraud...try " misrepresentation " a claim in the tort of deceit or fraudulent misrepresentation, it refers to a contention in a claim of something necessarily involving dishonesty.

 

A claim of deceit, fraudulent misrepresentation, dishonest assistance in breach of trust and any other causes of action in which dishonesty is an essential element.... but it can also includes other contentions of fact entailing dishonesty.

 

I personally would push the loss/inconvenience element and breach of contract (there is a contract?) as the main part of any claim...rather than the misrepresentation which only equates to £100.

 

Andy

[citizenB]

I have sent an S.O.S to one of the caggers who usually helps out in the Pets n Vets forum in the hope they might be able to offer some advice.

[jackieandwayne]

Well now, I can advise on badly behaved pets, emotional issues regarding animal welfare, give a bloody talking to where it is needed, but a lawyer I ain´t. I have been known to issue a swift right hook to someone abusing an animal where necessary but I don´t really advise that cos it hurts when they hit you back!

 

From the little info you have given, I see it like this. You had a contract with a stable who promised to look after your horse in the way that you would expect. They did not do this. Therefore they broke their contract with you, and you were entitled to remove your horse. You should also have your deposit back, and yes, if this action has cost you further money, you are entitled to attempt to recover that also. The County Court is just the place for you. It will cost you to file a claim, but again, if you are successful you will get your costs back. If you have all the proof, the contract, then I would say go ahead. I don´t think I´d bother with a solicitor at this stage, you can do this yourself, and there is a process to be followed, Letter Before Action etc. CAG advertise a book on here about doing your own case, by a lady called Patricia Pearl. It is very well written, in laymans terms, and I recommend you buy it and have a read.

 

Well Andyorch am I nearly right? LOL

 

I´m sure the guys and gals on here will help you through the process, and if such and such has happened, and you can prove it, then you have a very good chance of success.

 

I would like to know why you think the RSPCA wouldn´t be able to assist you? I don´t imagine they would take your case on for you, but they do need to know the full details of this, in writing, as they are responsible for prosecutions, and if we don´t keep them informed with all the info we have, their hands are tied. So I would keep them in the picture, if not to assist you directly, but to aid them in any investigation they might undertake.

 

I am sorry, without needing to read any story, that your poor horse has suffered. There are some people in this world who need a tazer straight up the backside.

 

Please let us know how you get on. Take care of that poor horse now. XX

[AndyOrch]

" Well Andyorch am I nearly right? LOL "

 

 

Many thanks for your input jackieandwayne

[Roadrunner3]

Hi all,

 

 

Just wanted to say thanks for all the replies and help. I suffer from Fibromyalgia and had a tough week so haven't replied previously.

 

 

I'm still struggling a bit so will reply specifically soon.

 

 

The question I have had in my mind is do I still need to send a Letter before Action if I have expressed twice previously via email that unless my Deposit was returned by 'x date' I would proceed with Legal Action?

 

 

Thanks again, your help is greatly appreciated.

[AndyOrch]

Yes its a part of the legal process you must send a formal letter before action (or letter before claim) to give them one last chance to settle the matter. You'll need to send a letter before action even if you have already written to them about the problem.

 

Andy

[Roadrunner3]

Ok, so essay coming up, sorry.

 

 

I viewed a potential livery yard that provided a DIY service which basically means the yard would provide stabling/grazing/use of facilities but the daily care of the horse is the Owners responsibility.

 

 

The Yard Owner (YO) has a bit of an odd rule in that new horses must go into a certain paddock for a set amount of time to check for any sign of illness etc before grazing near other horses. That in itself is great in principle but massive flaw is that the designated paddock was right next to the main yard and you could bring your horse onto the yard/use facilities during the 'quarantine' period so it completely negated the purpose, anyway. I was told my horse would stay in that paddock for a month before being moved to another grazing paddock that he would have sole use of for the summer months (he would then be provided with a different paddock for the winter months).

 

 

My horse settled brilliantly in the initial paddock and after 8 days the YO told me to move him to his 'summer paddock'. I did what they wanted. The new paddock was a considerable distance in comparison to the main yard and my horse immediately became quite distressed in his new locale. He began to pace the fence line closest to the yard and would spend time just staring at the yard from the corner of the field when he could see the yard most clearly.

 

 

Not only does consistent pacing do damage to the ground, it is a clear indicator that the horse is distressed. However it is not unusual for animals to take time to adjust to new surroundings initially and so I just kept an eye on his behaviour. I have owned this horse since he was 5 months old and have owned him for just under 5 years, I know him very well. So after approx. 10 days, he remained very unsettled and by this stage was coming close to wearing a noticeable track along that particular fence line. The yard had approx. 20 unused paddocks and approx. 6 of those were close to the yard (like the initial paddock) so I texted the YO asked if he could be relocated as he wasn't settling. I got a point blank 'No' answer. This is when I became concerned. Distressed behaviour, such as pacing can have significant physical, emotional and psychological effects on an animal. I called the YO a couple of days later to discuss. Response was basically, not my problem he is pacing, before they would even consider possibly relocating him to a closer paddock I will need to give him a course of calming drugs and see if he responds.

 

 

So, after speaking to my Vet and approx. £80 out of pocket I began this course of action, while looking for a new livery yard. This wasn't easy as good yards rarely have vacancies and of course it needs to be suited to yours and the horses needs.

 

 

After finding a suitable yard I gave the YO in question my Months Notice (it took approx. 6 weeks to find a suitable yard). By this stage my horse had worn a significant track along the fence line, was tricky to handle, had cracks in his feet from the constant pacing and was quite distressed in general. The YO would check the paddocks on a daily basis so this would not have ever gone unnoticed.

 

 

I moved my horse and was given my date of the end of the Notice period by YO (nearly a full month after moving my horse from their property) and given an invoice for any o/s costs. I paid this promptly and the next day the YO texted me to say they were very concerned about the state of my paddock as it was 'unusable'. I went and poo picked. I then emailed the YO to say I would clear the stable/paddock/my property from yard before end of notice period. (I poo picked the paddock everyday regardless and there were no previous problems raised by YO). I then got a text to say it wasn't good enough and to do it again. I did. I then received another text saying it still wasn't good enough and if I didn't do it again by the end of the next day they would and charge me. By this stage I realised I could have hoovered, steam cleaned and Feng Shui'd the paddock and it wouldn't be good enough.

 

 

So they contacted me to say they had to do the paddock and would retain £100 from my deposit. The contract states that if paddocks were not poo-picked daily they have a right to do it themselves and charge £40 per horse for everyday they need to do this. This was never a previous issue, only became an issue after I gave my notice. The contract also states that the Deposit will be returned in full provided the paddock/stable are 'left clean'.

 

 

When the YO stated that if I didn't come back to poo pick by the next day they would do so and charge me, it was within my months notice which ended approx. 8 days after the text was sent to me. I had the right to return my horse to their yard and use the stable/paddock/facilities if I needed to within that timeframe.

 

 

I had to move my horse in the interests of his Welfare and incurred several hundred pounds of additional cost to do so (including remedial work to repair his damaged hooves). The management of the YO caused unnecessary suffering to my horse. My horse is a very relaxed animal at his new yard where the YO acts in the animals interests (which I think is a key factor?).

 

 

However many think I'm barking mad to attempt to think I have any right/chance of claiming for costs incurred to move him on welfare grounds and not to bother trying to get my £100 retained percent of deposit back.

 

 

Sorry, it's taken me so long to get the story up but that is the foundation of it. All advice eagerly welcome and appreciated in advance.

[Roadrunner3]

P.s I have an Equine Degree, have worked within the equine veterinary and insurance industries and have represented my Country in equestrian sport if this would strengthen my case?