Backdoor CCJ Howdens Joinery B2B debt - Equita hceo at my door

[rattlywelshboy]

Hi All,

 

I was running my own limited company when it fell on bad times and I ceased trading in January 2015.

 

 

I only had one creditor which was Howdens Joinery for about 2k.

 

 

Today my wife opened the door to a HCEO from Equita asking to speak to me regarding a business debt that I am liable for.

 

My wife explained to him that I no longer trade and that the registered business address was not my home address

and also that I had sent a request to companies house to close the business down.

 

I have no business assets and no business premises.

He left a letter with my wife addressed to the company

but with my home address on it

advising that they will return in 7 days if I do not contact them to discuss and pay the debt.

 

Again, there are no business assets at my home and my car is registered in my name.

 

Can he remove goods from my home or take my car?

 

Would be grateful if anyone could assist as I want to call the back but need some feedback.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

simple ans is no he cannot.

and he has no right of entry either.

were you notified that this was going to court?

get the claimform?

get the resultant CCJ?

moved to the bailiffs forum

dx

[rattlywelshboy]

Thank you for your input. Didn't think that they could but you never know with them.

[obiter dictum]

Being a LTD company there is no personal liability unlike a sole trader, only on company assets

 

A limited company is a completely separate entity from its owners. Everything from the company bank account, to ownership of assets and involvement in tenders and contracts is purely company business and separate from the interests of the company’s shareholders.

 

You are protected in case things go wrong. Assuming no fraud has taken place, you will not be personally liable for any financial losses made by your limited company.

 

They can make you Bankrupt though, the limit i believe has been raised from £750 to £5000.000 from next month

 

But only if you have offered a personal Guarantee with the Joinery provider

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?439688-Bankruptcy-threshold-increased-from-£750.00-to-£5-000.00

 

Yes, BR threshold increased from £750.00 to £5,000 from next month, October 2015.

[HCEOs]

The answers above are correct unless you had some personal guarantee within your contract.

[rattlywelshboy]

hi. no personal guarantee.

[obiter dictum]

Then the bailiff has no claim on you as the liability is with any company asserts (LTD Company) and no personal guarantees have been made

 

Back up by email if you can

 

Send a letter by recorded delivery to Equita address on the letter stating this

[caledfwlch]

Until you get confirmation from Equita that they are no longer persuing you for the companies debt,

it might be wise to park your car a couple of streets away, and keep the external doors in your house locked so he cannot walk in

- it is not unknown in these circumstances for them to "seize first" and try and bully you into paying the debt, despite not owing it.

 

I would also suggest sending a letter and maybe phoning the Company the money is owed to,

stating the company was Limited and is no longer in business, and you will take legal action against them, should a Bailiff take your car, enter the house etc, as the Bailiff is acting under their instructions, they are equally liable for anything the Bailiff does.

[rattlywelshboy]

Thanks I will do that

[rattlywelshboy]

Hi all.

Bailiff HCEO turned up today when I was not there and just walked in past my wife.

Luckily the kids were upstairs at the time.

He said he was going to seize goods unless she can prove they are not the company's assets.

My wife told him to get out and that this is a residential address and nothing to with the business.

He left and sat in the car outside.

I spoke to him as he gave my wife his number.

He has asked me to prove that the items in the house are not the business and also to prove I am not trading.

I told him that the business premises was closed in January and there are no assets or bank account which there isn't.

He said that the company still shows as active online.

Said to him that it takes about 6 months to close.

Can he come back and take my goods from the house or enter the house at all.

[ploddertom]

Think you will find he is trying to up the ante. He has not taken control of anything and he will know fine well your household goods are just that & the majority of those are exempt anyway. You really do need to keep your doors locked at all times until this is resolved.

[rattlywelshboy]

Thanks. My car has been outside the house both times and he has not levied against this or clamped it or even threatened to take the car. The car is in my name only as well as my van. Is there anything I can print out to show him that he cannot just chase the debt at my home address or threaten to take goods or even just walk in the door. I also have 2 disabled children at home.

 

thanks again for all your help.

[ploddertom]

Not being nosy but could you say in general terms what your children have & is it likely to be aggravated by unnecessary callers. The chances are he may only call another couple of times before giving it up as a lost cause - he only gets paid on results and just adding charges for now puts nothing in his pocket. Howdens can of course instruct another HCEO or go for a different action but they need to learn that if the Ltd Co had or has no assets then they will get nothing - they can of course use it as a tax write off.

 

As for him attending then unfortunately the Writ gives him the right to attend any address in England or Wales where he believes there might be goods that will satisfy the debt. Of course if he is wrong then he may leave himself to action against himself.

[rattlywelshboy]

Hi.

My 2 eldest children are autistic and do not like people who they do not know visiting our home.

I understand that an HCEO can visit any address but there is only our personal property here and no company assets so can he take them and do I have to prove they are ours.

[Bailiff Advice]

The problem that the bailiff has is that the debt is in the name of a Limited Company and if he attempts to take goods, he needs to have a good belief that they actually BELONG to the Limited Company.

 

If you had traded as a sole trader then the position would have been far simpler for the bailiff and I would have expected him to attempt to remove your vehicles. I assume that both the car and van are in your name as opposed to the name of the Limited Company.

 

My personal opinion is that the bailiff will very likely return the writ although he may make one more visit.

[ploddertom]

 

Hi. My 2 eldest children are autistic and do not like people who they do not know visiting our home.

 

 

I would make both Claimant & HCEO aware of your sons condition & that you will hold them both fully responsible for any breakdown in your sons condition(s). I would also take the opportunity to say that as the Ltd Co has ceased trading & is awaiting Strike Off by Companies there are no assets kept at your residential address & unless they can provide a current signed personal guarantee then they should refrain from visiting.

[rattlywelshboy]

Thank you, i will

[ploddertom]

Email followed by copy via snail mail is best. If doing by email ask for a read Receipt.

[rattlywelshboy]

ok thank you

[caledfwlch]

One possibility to help protect yourself is to go to your local court, or a solicitors and get a Notorised "Statutory Declaration"

 

I am not sure if a "global" list is allowed, so you may need to list all the "assets" that the HCEO could levy, TV, computers/laptops, game systems and so on. The Stat Dec as long as it has been witnessed/stamped by a Solicitor or someone at the Court (Should only cost between £5-£10 or so) is a valid legal document of ownership, and would state all the goods belong to you and your wife, not the Limited Company.

 

The HCEO may not like it, but they are legal, and have the same effect as a Receipt, more so really, since a Receipt from a till when buying a TV or coffee table won't have the purchasers name on it, and a person could easily "borrow" an old receipt from a friend to outwit the levy, whilst a Stat Dec is a legal document (and lying on one if proven to be a false statement would be Perjury/Contempt of Court, so it is a serious tool, and a Bailiff would be mental to still attempt a levy or seizure when presented with one, unless he had genuine evidence or suspicions that its a false declaration but would I think have to take you to Court to argue the validity before the judge, which could I suspect be costly for the Bailiff or his firm if the statement is proven Truthful, so its not something they would be keen to mess with, I should think. (most people don't keep or will have lost receipts for home goods, which is why Bailiff's like to demand them as they know people tend not to have them.

 

Getting one done should only take a few minutes at court/solicitors, and you would of course list your car and van on it, then make several copies, then, by recorded delivery so you have proof of service, write a letter stating that this is a Stat Dec to prove that the goods are personally owned by you and your wife, no company assets are at the address, which is residential, no goods at the residential address belong to the Limited Company,, remind them again that the Limited Company is no longer trading, and that as they well know, you are not personally liable for the Companies Debts as it was a limited company. then post the letter and the stat dec 1 to the Enforcement Company, and 1 to the Creditor, perhaps even post a copy of both to the Head of Enforcement at the Court the Warrant is from, stating that you are being harassed by a HCEO who is pursuing you for a debt you do not owe, as it belongs to a Limited Company that is no longer in business, and you have attached the Notorised Stat Dec as proof all the goods in the home are personally owned, nothing in the property belongs to the LTD Company. If you have any paperwork showing the Ltd Company has ceased trading, including emails etc (print them out) then put that in the letters too. Ask him/herfor help in getting the HCEO called off, as he is harassing you for a debt you don't owe. In the letters to the Creditor & Enforcement Company, you could again point out that you have now provided enough proof that Enforcement attempts should be stopped, and you may take legal action if the HCEO continues to harass you and your family, and of course, that the Creditor is equally legally responsible for any wrongs committed by the HCEO acting under their instructions, and thus any future legal action should harassment continue would include them. Demand written acceptance that Enforcement has been halted against you and your address.

 

Until you have confirmation that Enforcement has been halted against you and your address, I would strongly Recommend that you park your car and van away from your address, if you can, on private land, a pub car park with Landlords permission, or the drive of friends or family members, as they cannot clamp/remove vehicles that are on private land not owned by you. It is much easier and safer to do this, than wake up, or come home from the shops and find that he has seized and removed them whilst he considers the Warrant Live and Actionable at your address, and then having to go through various legal procedures to get them back (and hope they haven't been sold quickly, which does happen)

 

This link has a little bit of info about Stat Dec's though it does not point out they can be done at a solicitors, unless the law has changed recently.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/action-your-creditor-can-take/bailiffs/your-belongings-and-bailiffs/what-goods-can-a-bailiff-take/proving-who-owns-the-items-bailiffs/

 

When a Bailiff is able to make peaceful entry into your home, he Levies your goods, by listing them, for example 1 x 42" Panasonic Television, Serial Number XXXXXXX 1 x Acer Laptop Serial No xxxxxxx 20 x assorted Xbox Video Games 1 x Xbox One Serial No xxxxx your Stat Dec would be similar to that, listing the "assets" as belonging to you, not the Company. You would list your Car and Van on it too.

 

This Link is an example of what a Stat Dec would look like

http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index.php/Bailiffs:_Useful_Template_Letters#Statutory_Declaration_For_Goods_Belonging_to_Someone_Else