DWP data on deaths of ESA claimants

[reallymadwoman]

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/27/thousands-died-after-fit-for-work-assessment-dwp-figures

[antone]

From the article, quote from a DWP spokesperson:

 

The DWP defended the accuracy of the WCA. It said: “Any causal effect between benefits and mortality cannot be assumed from these statistics. Additionally, these isolated figures provide limited scope for analysis and nothing can be gained from this publication that would allow the reader to form any judgment as to the effects or impacts of the work capability assessment.”

It added: “DWP does not hold information on the reason for death, therefore no causal effect between the WCA decision and the number of people who died within a year of that decision should be assumed from these figures.”

 

Right, but that misses the point as far as I'm concerned. It's not so much that the WCA is directly causing deaths, although that's obviously possible. The point is that if a person dies shortly after their WCA finds them fit for work, it would seem that the either the WCA decision was seriously in error, or the WCA assessment criteria are flawed. Or both, of course..

[reallymadwoman]

Another article with slightly different numbers

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/27/benefits-death-claimants-welfare-ids_n_8047424.html

 

And I agree, no one has actually suggested that the WCA itself kills people (though there's plenty of evidence that the stress caused by the system certainly contributes to ill-health). Unless some random act of God or bizarre accident is killing all those people, then one can only surmise that it was some illness that killed them and it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that they had that illness at the time they were found fit for work and were therefore not actually fit for work.

[trebormoinet]

I hope this spurs some sort of civil unrest amongst the populace because the way things are going however many die at the hands of the DWP regime as long as outrage is the only response they will continue.

[sadone]

Oh somehow I doubt it. We're too bloody apathetic in this country, especially when it's anything to do with the sick and disabled.

 

A simple case of "If it doesn't effect me directly I don't give a toss'.

[reallymadwoman]

The vast majority, and once upon a time I might well have been one of them, assume that it simply won't happen to them. If they've paid into the system for 30 years then they expect it to pay out when they need it without any problem and are generally horrified when it doesn't, but of course by then it's too late.

I recently interrupted my sister mid-rant (not the wisest thing to do in general) by pointing out that I'm one of the benefit scroungers she was ranting about. Her response was 'but you're genuinely disabled and you worked all your life until you got injured'. Mine was 'so are the majority of the rest of ESA claimants'.

[reallymadwoman]

And the more I've thought about this the more angry I've become. We knew that people found fit for work were dying but it's taken untold effort to make the DWP admit it, then when they do they're just trying to brush it off as an unfortunate coincidence. Well I for one am not buying this - I simply don't believe that 80 people a month coincidentally and unexpectedly die having recently been found fit for work. Try suggesting to anyone in the medical profession that such a large percentage of a relatively small, already sick/disabled group would die within such a short time of an unrelated conditon - they simply wouldn't believe it either.

[tommy456]

IBS should be sacked

[honeybee13]

Of course, if the DWP held the information on the cause of death, which would be on the certificate they have to see, they would be able to work out if it was coincidence or not......

 

HB

[unclebulgaria67]

Of course, if the DWP held the information on the cause of death, which would be on the certificate they have to see, they would be able to work out if it was coincidence or not......

 

HB

 

I suspect cases must have been looked into. Coroners reports must have addressed the issue.

 

IDS and government are being careful, as there is a very slim possibility of corporate manslaughter charges against anyone who can be identified as having responsibility for someones death. If IDS was aware of issues and did not address them, he could be personally held responsible and i am not sure there is any ministerial exclusion against criminal charges being brought. But very unlikely that anyone from CPS would even consider this and it would be a very expensive private prosecution.

[reallymadwoman]

I find it somewhat disturbing that this story features in 2 out of the 3 'trending' headlines on Facebook but gets not a single mention on the BBC news website, or not that I've been able to find anyway. Do the BBC not consider this to be a newsworthy item?

[AndyOrch]

No ...unlike One Direction which are taking a temporary split for 12 months:wink:

 

Andy

[silverfox1961]

I find it somewhat disturbing that this story features in 2 out of the 3 'trending' headlines on Facebook but gets not a single mention on the BBC news website, or not that I've been able to find anyway. Do the BBC not consider this to be a newsworthy item?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34074557

[AndyOrch]

Bet it didn't make TV headline news though unlike the above:-)

[silverfox1961]

Mr Irritable Diarrhoea Smith should have taken the lead in this matter and ordered a full review of how these poor people died. He has all the traits of a person with Aspergers (NO disrespect to Aspergers sufferers) in that he believes everything he does is right and will not take criticism in any shape or form nor apologise for his failings.

 

I wonder what he knows about his betters that lead him to being able to stay in his job? Watch this space in the future when new names are let out for peerages.

[unclebulgaria67]

Mr Irritable Diarrhoea Smith should have taken the lead in this matter and ordered a full review of how these poor people died. He has all the traits of a person with Aspergers (NO disrespect to Aspergers sufferers) in that he believes everything he does is right and will not take criticism in any shape or form nor apologise for his failings.

 

I wonder what he knows about his betters that lead him to being able to stay in his job? Watch this space in the future when new names are let out for peerages.

 

I have long thought that IDS may have issues. Some of his reactions when questionned about this would be of concern, if they were exhibited by someone with a mental health condition. A new Labour raised this general issue in parliament and IDS went mad, leading to her complaining to the Speaker.

[silverfox1961]

I have long thought that IDS may have issues. Some of his reactions when questionned about this would be of concern, if they were exhibited by someone with a mental health condition. A new Labour raised this general issue in parliament and IDS went mad, leading to her complaining to the Speaker.

 

I used to be a telephone helper for my local dyslexia association and I have some experience of Aspergers. Aspergers is a form of Autism and some of the sufferers do not take kindly to change, especially when it is sudden. I have seen tantrums in some where plans have been changed at short notice.(adults as well as children) IDS exhibits some of these traits (but not all) Each sufferer is different.

 

It's a bit like one of us sticking fingers in our ears and going lah lah lah in the hope the problem goes away.

[reallymadwoman]

Thanks for the BBC link, though the coverage is rather tame in comparison to other reports. I found it easier to find BBC coverage of Lisa Kudrow singing 'Smelly Cat' with Taylor Swift!

[stevemLS]

I find it somewhat disturbing that this story features in 2 out of the 3 'trending' headlines on Facebook but gets not a single mention on the BBC news website, or not that I've been able to find anyway. Do the BBC not consider this to be a newsworthy item?

 

It was the lead story on (BBC) Radio 5 Live this morning - and was going to be the subject of their hour long phone in - hardly treating it as unewsworthy?

[antone]

I have long thought that IDS may have issues. Some of his reactions when questionned about this would be of concern, if they were exhibited by someone with a mental health condition. A new Labour raised this general issue in parliament and IDS went mad, leading to her complaining to the Speaker.

 

Agreed. His reaction to the question was bizarre, even by politician standards. His answer was to start yelling about how Labour introduced the WCA, which is true but completely irrelevant. After all, he's the one in power now - if he thought the WCA was so terrible, why not use that power to change things?

[tommy456]

Agreed. His reaction to the question was bizarre, even by politician standards. His answer was to start yelling about how Labour introduced the WCA, which is true but completely irrelevant. After all, he's the one in power now - if he thought the WCA was so terrible, why not use that power to change things?

 

IDS has a short memory , wasn't it the coalition that introduced the Mandatory reconsideration last October, adding another obstacle for those found fit for work by ATOS

And going back further didn't this coalition also change some of the qualifying pigeon holes( descriptors) and associated points ? again making it harder for people to meet their criteria in 2013 ?

Edited August 29, 2015 by honeybee13
Removing pejorative terms.

[obiter dictum]

The Army could not even trust the man to run a platoon of soldiers

 

They made him a Major Generals batman out of harms way

 

He was kicked out of the army after 5 years because he could never make Captain

 

Irritable bowel syndrome is a fraud and a Walter Mitty character

 

He even stated he earned a degree at two different universities when they were only Diplomas