Friends NatWest loan - have MISFILED the Consumer Credit Agreement

[Let Them Knock]

As said elsewhere, I am endeavoring to help a friend who 'inherited' a lot of debt when her marriage failed.

 

As a matter of course I (she) made CCA requests to all her creditors.

 

One item was a personal loan. This loan was a consolidation of her current account and previous loan, made in 2005. It went into arrears is is being paid off at £10 a month under a self administered Debt Management Plan. The current balance is £13,500ish.

 

Today a reply came from NatWest saying they had 'misfiled' the original agreement. It also said "Our record of setting up the loan has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty that is required".

(I am struggling to upload an image of this letter - please bear with me)

 

The last default notice for this loan was in April 2008.

 

My original intention was always to get F&F settlements on all her debts. NatWest turned down my initial offer of £2,100 a few months ago so the £10 monthly repayments have continued.

 

Fredricksons have now got there fingers on this and are trying to pile the pressure on - they either don't know or don't care that a DMP is already in place.

 

I want to avoid a new default notice being issued and I want to get into the best position I can to negotiate a (small) F&F settlement.

 

What should I do next?

 

Advice welcome, please.

[Bandit127]

Personally I would want to verify the amount claimed is correct for any new DCA - including Freds. Since you do not have access to the original agreement you can no longer do this.

 

Send Natwest and Freds a letter saying that you cannot verify that the sums they claim are correct and you are disputing them. Therefore the account is in dispute.

 

Remind them that OFT guidance obliges them to stop all recovery activity while they resolve your dispute.

[Let Them Knock]

Personally I would want to verify the amount claimed is correct for any new DCA - including Freds. Since you do not have access to the original agreement you can no longer do this.

 

Send Natwest and Freds a letter saying that you cannot verify that the sums they claim are correct and you are disputing them. Therefore the account is in dispute.

 

Remind them that OFT guidance obliges them to stop all recovery activity while they resolve your dispute.

 

Presumably, this would also stop a default notice too?

[Bandit127]

Presumably, this would also stop a default notice too?

Not sure - I have 2 accounts in dispute with a DCA. They have gone completely quiet but are still reporting on my credit file. I don't know if this is recovery activity or not.

 

I do know that only one default can be issued. The DCA can (and will) put their name against it if they purchase the debt, but the default date and sum should not change.

 

They will carry on marking the monthly update of that account in some way. A DF in a nice red blob in my case...

[Let Them Knock]

Here we go - perhaps this will be the letter from NatWest:

 

[ATTACH]38898[/ATTACH]

[Bandit127]

Hmm, I am sure they will carry on with such actions that are legally permitted.

 

Like asking you to pay. And, erm... oh yes, reporting on your credit file.

 

Is your friend paying this currently?

[Let Them Knock]

Yes, she is paying £10 a month under a DMP.- a rate that will take her 112 years to settle the full debt.

 

As I said - the object of the exercise is to negotiate a F&F settlement - as low as possible.

 

Thanks

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

What the bank is saying is that they can produce a compliant reconstitued agreement.

 

There cannot be another default, one debt one default one default date end of story, a DCA can/must update the entry with their information but CANNOT change the default date.

[Mike_hawk]

What the bank is saying is that they can produce a compliant reconstitued agreement.

 

There cannot be another default, one debt one default one default date end of story, a DCA can/must update the entry with their information but CANNOT change the default date.

 

Afternoon Brig

 

Did you mean can't not can?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The letter clearly states that they have enough data from the setting up of the account to recreate (reconstitute) the agrreement.

My guess is the will do so at some point.

[Let Them Knock]

"Our record of setting up the loan has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty that is required".

 

Does that mean they can or cannot reconstitute the agreement?

[Mike_hawk]

I read 'insufficient detail to enable us to recreate'

[Mike_hawk]

"Our record of setting up the loan has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty that is required".

 

Does that mean they can or cannot reconstitute the agreement?

 

I vote no, it can't currently comply

[havinastella]

Looking at their letter, they can do nothing. They may sell it on but it's easily batted away.

 

Should you want to offer a F&F, your have all the cards.

[robcag]

As matters stand, they're stuffed. They have admitted they cannot enforce the debt through the courts. Game set and match.

 

Rob

[Let Them Knock]

Looking at their letter, they can do nothing. They may sell it on but it's easily batted away.

 

Should you want to offer a F&F, your have all the cards.

 

Just to give me some further clues on what F&F might be acceptable, does anyone know what sort of 'selling price' a debt like this would have, if they sold it on?

 

I think I should say, "I am beginning to smirk a bit". :-)

[robcag]

Just to give me some further clues on what F&F might be acceptable, does anyone know what sort of 'selling price' a debt like this would have, if they sold it on?

 

I think I should say, "I am beginning to smirk a bit". :-)

 

I'd just ignore it. Your friends CRA file will be trashed anyway.

 

Continuing to make payments will only prolong the date when the debt also becomes SB.

 

Rob

[robcag]

Also, for 'MISFILED', read; "we filed it in the shredder".

 

Rob

Edited October 20, 2012 by robcag

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Rereading that apologies no the CANNOT reconstitute an agreement, but the debt still subsists and they can still report to the CRAs and pursue for payment, I cannot advise debt avoidance, the decision must be yours entirely from here on.

[Let Them Knock]

Rereading that apologies no the CANNOT reconstitute an agreement, but the debt still subsists and they can still report to the CRAs and pursue for payment, I cannot advise debt avoidance, the decision must be yours entirely from here on.

 

Thanks for that Brig.

 

Debt avoidance was never part of the plan however, a suitably low F&F settlement would save the trouble of chasing unfair charges that were levied on previous debts that were rolled forward into this one.

 

Advice on how best to get a low F&F would be appreciated.

[Bandit127]

A F&F on an account in dispute might have an "improved" chance of acceptance.

 

However, (and thinking further on Brig's post on debt avoidance) I think they might give you a better answer to your £2,100 offer now you have it in writing that they cannot enforce.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Points of caution on F&F offers.

Work out what you are able to afford to offer.

Start low to give yourself room to negotiate 7.5-10% of OS balance.

If the offer is rejected raise it by no more than 5-7.5 % if this is rejected, request the creditor to state what they want, then negotiate down from there.

Do not attempt to send any money saying this is my F&F if you cash the cheque I will assume you agree, it wont work the will cah the cheque and pursue fot the balance.

You MUST get their unequivical agreement to your offer in writting and they must agree that any remaining balance is not sold at any time to any 3rd party.

An agreement should be reached regarding the CRA entries best get them to remove all adverse data 2nd best to mark the entries settled.

[Let Them Knock]

Thanks again Brig - excellent advice which I shall follow.

[Bandit127]

Yes, thanks from me too Brig - excellent.

 

Let Them Knock - I assume you are familiar with the pitfalls of the F&F process? If not, National Debtline have a good article here:

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=24_full_and_final_settlement_offers

[Let Them Knock]

Yes, thanks from me too Brig - excellent.

 

Let Them Knock - I assume you are familiar with the pitfalls of the F&F process? If not, National Debtline have a good article here:

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=24_full_and_final_settlement_offers

 

Thanks Bandit - I had seen it but is handy to have it attached here. It will be getting some scrutiny soon methinks.