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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Thinking of becoming a Betterware co-ordinator?


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At some point in our lives we may find ourselves in a position where you NEED a job.

I signed up with Betterware as a "Co-ordinator" which roughly translated means area manager in charge of several

or more Distributors in a set geographical area. The position was self employed.

 

The job entailed taking weekly orders from the Distributors, collating them and entering the orders online to Betterware HQ.

The entire value of those orders was placed onto your co-ordinator's "running financial account" in your name.

 

 

When the goods arrived they turned up in huge boxes which you had to sort for each Distributor

and more often than not there were missing products where the packer of the consignment ticked the picking list,

but the goods were not in the delivered parcel(s).

 

 

A claim form and the original picking list had to be posted off to B/W's HQ and hopefully those amounts would then be credited to your "running account" - or not.

I am still over £170.00 out of pocket with this system and B/W have all the documents.

 

When you delivered the goods to the Distributors you also had to collect cash from them from previous week's sales,

less any commission they were due, calculated at 20% of sold products.

 

There would be times when the customer wasn't at home despite many visits,

or they simply refused to pay, so the goods were then handed back to me to be returned to B/W HQ.

Commission earned by the Distributor in this transaction = £0.00

 

Under distance selling regulations, the Distributor is obliged by law to give a full refund within 14 days and many times they did give 100% refunds.

Commission earned by the Distributor in this transaction = £0.00

In fact the commission earned from the original sale has now been paid back to the customer so the distributor is now -20% of the good's value.

 

Faulty goods exchanged by the Distributor. Commission earned by the Distributor in this transaction = £0.00.

 

All of these returned items then get handed back to the co-ordinator who gives them 100% credit value on their weekly cash summary.

 

When those goods get returned to Betterware HQ, they then decide to DEDUCT 20% OF THE GOODS VALUE FROM THE CO-ORDINATOR

and add that value onto the running account which is debited.

 

I couldn't work out how my "running account" was getting further and further into the red when I was doing the job strictly as instructed,

that was until I discovered this 20% deduction on all returned goods which made me livid.

I quizzed my regional manager about this and was told it was done to recoup commissions already paid on these goods

. It certainly wasn't paid to me that's for sure.

 

If the distributors wanted any plastic bags to protect the catalogues in wet weather, or wanted other paid for stationary

, it all came out of the co-ordinator's running account.

 

The major part of the job though was to recruit new Distributors.

I spent a small fortune on phone calls and petrol running around chasing people that didn't want to work,

or they would spend a couple of hours putting catalogues out then quit,

saying it was "hard work". It was THE most thankless job that I have ever had.

 

You were expected to pay each week a "waiver fee" to supposedly protect you against Distributors running off with goods or money.

This only applied to ONE invoice so I was told, so it didn't protect you against money shortfalls over several weeks,

nor did it protect me from Betterware's own malpractices, as I was to find out.

This "waiver scheme" has not been approved by the FCA.

 

Because I wasn't happy about these all back door deductions coming out of the running account,

so I decided enough was enough and so I quit. I was presented with a bill for over £800.00, payable instantly.

 

I went to Citizen's Advice about these issues and they told me it was a criminal offence under unfair trading and consumer protection regulation

, so they referred it on to Trading Standards to investigate, which to the best of my knowledge they have not done so.

 

 

I have informed Betterware about this illegal activity and they have never once responded, denied or challenged it.

Instead, they took out a County Court summons and got a judgement in their favour,

despite me writing to the court informing them that the debt was unlawfully accrued and therefore not recoverable.

 

The latest news is that B/W have appointed baillifs and the debt has now gone up to over £1,000.

 

All of this really has affected my health which wasn't that good to begin with.

Edited by citizenB
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Welcome to the wonderful ( not) world of MLM companies. What did the original claim form say? How did you defend it?

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Welcome to the wonderful ( not) world of MLM companies. What did the original claim form say? How did you defend it?

 

Betterware isn't an MLM company. You might have been thinking of Kleeneze which is.

 

I went to the county court to defend it but this idiot got the time of the hearing mixed up. I thought it was 2.30pm but it was at 2.00pm. I was there at 1.45pm and realised just a minute after 2.00 I should have signed in, but the judge had already gone home worse luck. Betterware didn't appear but sent a letter to the court, the contents of which I have never seen.

 

I applied to have the judgement set aside on the basis that the debt had been acrued illegally and not recoverable in law. They still got their judgement.

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Is this post to get advice or purely a warning to others ?

 

Be careful, as if they pay the court fee to elevate to high court enforcement, the enforcement fees are much higher. If you applied to set aside and this failed, you don't have much choice but arranging to pay. Keep cars off the driveway just in case of enforcement visit and never allow them into your home.

We could do with some help from you.

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Bettaware started out as one. It might not be one anymore, but still has similar business style behind the scenes

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Can you provide us with more details of the actual claim please ?

 

specifically, from the particulars of claim where they say why they are issuing the claim.

 

And, can you type up word for word exactly what you wrote in your defence. The bit I have highlighted in your first post, it would appear that your defence wasn't CPR compliant and could well be the reason they obtained a judgment against you.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Is this post to get advice or purely a warning to others ?

 

Be careful, as if they pay the court fee to elevate to high court enforcement, the enforcement fees are much higher. If you applied to set aside and this failed, you don't have much choice but arranging to pay. Keep cars off the driveway just in case of enforcement visit and never allow them into your home.

 

It is asking for advice, but mainly to inform others that they are going to be fleeced by taking up this job, plus to highlight that the legal system is heavily weighted against the man in the street.

 

Citizen's Advice were helpful but no more than that. Trading Standards are suffering budget cuts so it is probably more efficient for them to go searching out grubby takeaway joints than spend resouces investigating my complaint. If it is considered to be a criminal offence, the police don't want to know either. The county court system should have rung alarm bells when my written plea for a set aside contained the words illegal, unlawful and criminal. The response back was to cough up £155.00 which I didn't and don't have.

 

I have already dealt with the bailliffs by using the appropriate system. My wife and I are both classed as "vulnerable", her with chronic Asthma and me with a serious heart condition plus insulin dependant diabetes. This whole episode has affected me badly and I now have Angina for good measure brought on by the stress. Her name is not included anywhere in this action with B/W so we have a signed and witnessed Statutory Declaration that everything in our home belongs to her, including the cars. If a bailiff does turn up now, I will insist they leave without entering and call the police if they refuse under trespass laws.

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Can you provide us with more details of the actual claim please ?

 

specifically, from the particulars of claim where they say why they are issuing the claim.

 

And, can you type up word for word exactly what you wrote in your defence. The bit I have highlighted in your first post, it would appear that your defence wasn't CPR compliant and could well be the reason they obtained a judgment against you.

 

They say their computer system is without fault and if it says I owe the money then there is no argument against it.

 

 

They submitted a printout of the account and it is all numbers which even I couldn't decipher.

 

 

I was going to try and cross check with my records,

but the computer died completely and I cannot retrieve those records.

 

 

The originals of the missing product claim documents are in the possession of B/W,

but I did find all the weekly summary sheets from the distributors that shows all the returns,

faulty goods and missing product figures they put on their summaries which they got full credit for.

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Sounds like you did not actually make a set aside application as such. If this is the case, you might still be able to do so. If you are on low income you might not have to pay the court fee.

 

BUT if you do go ahead with set aside application, i would suggest that you don't make allegations of unlawful or illegal, unless you van prove it. Remember that county court is for civil issues, not criminal. They want to hear about issues with the contract you had with BW.

 

Can i suggest that you look to obtain free legal advice locally. There are legal advice centres around the country. If you search for pro bono legal advice or community legal advice, see what you can find local to you.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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  • 1 month later...

The latest news is I have had a major heart attack resulting from all the stress this issue has brought on.

 

When I came out of hospital I really wasn't feeling well at all and the bailliff turned up on my doorstep, despite being sent a communication that they were not to do so. I engaged a company called Bailliff Advice (a trading style of P.A.C.E. Associates (UK) Ltd) to deal with the bailliff company whom they ignored anyway and turned up regardless claiming he had not seen the documents sent to their head office. I showed hime the documents and he still ignored them, so that was £150 well and truly wasted on Bailliff Advice's useless services.

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The latest news is I have had a major heart attack resulting from all the stress this issue has brought on.

 

When I came out of hospital I really wasn't feeling well at all and the bailliff turned up on my doorstep, despite being sent a communication that they were not to do so. I engaged a company called Bailliff Advice(a trading style of P.A.C.E. Associates (UK) Ltd) to deal with the bailliff company whom they ignored anyway and turned up regardless claiming he had not seen the documents sent to their head office. I showed hime the documents and he still ignored them, so that was £150 well and truly wasted on Bailliff Advice's useless services.

 

I am dreadfully sorry to hear of your health problems and I can understand the awful stress that you are under.

 

In the first instance, which enforcement /bailiff company visited you?

 

How much were they attempting to recover from you?

 

I notice from your post that you paid a fee of £150 to Bailiff Advice (P.A.C.E Associates Ltd). Can I just make an important point clear:

 

For almost 10 years I have run a website called Bailiff Advice Online. I do not advertise the site on this forum and neither do I provide links. I do not need to. The site is found by Google links on its own. What is of serious concern to me is the number of websites that have sprung up over the past year or so with astonishingly similar names to mine. The organisation that you have paid £150 is one such example.

 

I am not here to be critical of any organisation but it would help if you could post back to let us know what service they were going to provide to you. Have you spoken to them to advise that a further visit has been made? If so, what has been their response?

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