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    • Please monitor this thread for a reply later today
    • Plans for the Mitsubishi SpaceJet have been frozen due to budget cuts amid the virus downturn. View the full article
    • your right to reject has not been affected. at the very least you now have moved into the 6 months period where under the Consumer Rights Act you are entitled to give a single opportunity to repair after which you are entitled to reject the vehicle. maybe it will be a good idea to provide them with a letter to make  clear your position and what will happen if the whole matter isn't completely sorted out.   If that appeals to you then you might like to draft a letter and post it here and we can have a look. I think it's a good idea to state your position clearly so that nobody is in any doubt.   in terms of your part exchange vehicle, if you reject your new car then they will be obliged to refund you the entire asking price of it. In other words they will be obliged to substitute a money value for your old vehicle.   it might be worth stating that as well in your letter for clarity. I would suggest that in the intervening time it would be worth making a list of all the losses that you have suffered as a result of this situation and then if it looks like a worthwhile figure then we can help you claim it back            
    • Morning dx its signed, will post a picture when I get back from work what they sent her and have a read of some of the thteads you mentioned.
    • Why do I get the feeling that national lockdown no.2. will happen, but Government are delaying the decision for as long as possible ?   Is this so lockdown no.2 is timed for mid/late November ? With the hope virus numbers are then reducing by mid December, so the lockdown can be removed in the run up to Christmas ?   Bit of a risky strategy ?      
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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Brief summary/history

Other half's card.

 

Commenced 1998, defaulted 2006 with interest frozen from that date.

Default card balance was £6,500 - progressively paid/reduced to just under £5,000.

PPI claim made October 2012 - initially refused but upheld by the FOS on adjudication.

 

March 2014 NatWest credited £4,664 to the card, leaving a balance of £323.

By my own (spreadsheet) calculations the payment should have been some £1450 more than they paid.

 

Their payment was arrived at as follows:

Refund of payment made 1998 to 2006 £2334.14

Compound interest based on rates charged £ 712.36

Sub total £3056.50

Gross interest at 8% £2010.43

Less income tax at 20% £ 402.09

Net interest £1608.34

Net offer £4664.84

 

It is their compound interest figure that I cannot agree with.

During the 8 year life of the card, monthly interest rates varied between 1.385% and 1.620%. The average card balance was about £3200.

My calculations show the compound interest figure to be about £2077 rather than their figure of £712. This would also increase the 8% gross interest amount due by about £1000. I reckon we want about another £2500 from them (before tax)

 

I have written to them several times asking for a breakdown of their compound interest figure and have been stonewalled each time. They say they cannot provide these (complicated) calculations but that they are in line with the FOS and FCA guidelines.

 

Their last reply even went so far as to 'explain' to me how compound interest works. I can scarcely believe the content of it.

 

Here is the relevant paragraph from their letter:

As a basic look at the compound interest aspect, if you compared the monthly balance of the credit card with and without PPI and the difference was £20, then the interest element would be determined from this figure. If the monthly interest rate was 1% and 12% per annum, this would mean that the starting figure for the compound interest is 20p (1% of £20.00) if your card then ran for 5 years, the compound interest on this PPI premium would accumulate as follows, year 1 = 22p, year 2 = 25p, year 3 = 28p, year 4 = 31p, year 5 = 35p. Therefore the total amount difference in balance of £20.00 in this example would be 35p.

 

So, this 'expert' from RBS thinks the compound interest would be 35p. Well, I calculate it to be £16.33. She seems to have worked it out at 1% per annum rather than 1% per month.

(I am not a mathematician so if I have got this completely wrong and she is right, please, someone, tell me I am making a numpty of myself).

 

So, ladies and gentlemen of CAG, where do I go next with this shower?

Suggestions and comments most welcome, thanks.

Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

nec temere nec timide

 

So far, all done free for friends:

Cabot - F&F reduced debt by £7700 (70%)

NatWest - PPI claim - £1,800

NatWest - PPI claim - £6,200

NatWest - PPI claim - £3,000

Co-op Bank - PPI claim - £5,200

Halifax - PPI claim - £2,800

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £1,900

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £2,700

NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - £13,400

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so what spreadsheet did you use.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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so what spreadsheet did you use.

 

 

dx

 

One written by Bill-K, IIRC.

Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

nec temere nec timide

 

So far, all done free for friends:

Cabot - F&F reduced debt by £7700 (70%)

NatWest - PPI claim - £1,800

NatWest - PPI claim - £6,200

NatWest - PPI claim - £3,000

Co-op Bank - PPI claim - £5,200

Halifax - PPI claim - £2,800

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £1,900

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £2,700

NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - £13,400

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ideally you should be using the fos running

or the fosCIsheet

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?330996-Latest-Spreadsheets-PPI-Claims-and-Charges-Claims-Dec-2011

 

 

and converting your avg monthly int rate to apr using this

 

 

http://www.stoozing.com/calculator/apr-rate-converter.php

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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I am prepared to have a go, but...

How do I calculate the necessary APR required by the CI sheet as the monthly rate changed several times during the life of the card?

Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

nec temere nec timide

 

So far, all done free for friends:

Cabot - F&F reduced debt by £7700 (70%)

NatWest - PPI claim - £1,800

NatWest - PPI claim - £6,200

NatWest - PPI claim - £3,000

Co-op Bank - PPI claim - £5,200

Halifax - PPI claim - £2,800

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £1,900

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £2,700

NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - £13,400

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find the avg of your monthly rate

then use the stoozing site

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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OK, done that.

 

The Compound Interest Calculator shows a compound interest total of 2054.93. My own calculations came to £2077 so pretty close either way. Both way more than the £712.36 RBS paid.

 

What next, please?

Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

nec temere nec timide

 

So far, all done free for friends:

Cabot - F&F reduced debt by £7700 (70%)

NatWest - PPI claim - £1,800

NatWest - PPI claim - £6,200

NatWest - PPI claim - £3,000

Co-op Bank - PPI claim - £5,200

Halifax - PPI claim - £2,800

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £1,900

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £2,700

NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - £13,400

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pers I think they are talking bowlarks..

 

 

unless the account goes into credit compounded int is still being charged every month

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Share on other sites
pers I think they are talking bowlarks..

 

 

unless the account goes into credit compounded int is still being charged every month

 

 

dx

 

Totally agree. The underpayment of £1450 or so plus the resulting statutory interest comes to best part of £2,500. I just cannot get them to accept they have got it wrong or to send me their calculations.

 

I am lost as to what to try next.

Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

nec temere nec timide

 

So far, all done free for friends:

Cabot - F&F reduced debt by £7700 (70%)

NatWest - PPI claim - £1,800

NatWest - PPI claim - £6,200

NatWest - PPI claim - £3,000

Co-op Bank - PPI claim - £5,200

Halifax - PPI claim - £2,800

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £1,900

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £2,700

NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - £13,400

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you cant have both

either:

you get compounded int if the account is in the red [minus the PPI refund running total to that date]

or you get stat 8% on any credit balance in that month only

that's why the FOSrunning sheet is the best one to do but very hardwork to enter all the info.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
you cant have both

either:

you get compounded int if the account is in the red [minus the PPI refund running total to that date]

or you get stat 8% on any credit balance in that month only

that's why the FOSrunning sheet is the best one to do but very hardwork to enter all the info.

 

dx

 

I obviously have not made myself clear here.

 

The account was terminated in 2006.

 

We have received the PPI premiums paid plus £712 in compound interest.

 

We are still some £1400 short in compound interest (as per the above calcs).

 

Stat interest will be due on this £1400 underpayment from 2006 until the date of payout. Hence, about £2500 in total.

 

But, the big question is...

 

How do I get them to accept they have underpaid me

 

or how do I prove it to them?

Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

nec temere nec timide

 

So far, all done free for friends:

Cabot - F&F reduced debt by £7700 (70%)

NatWest - PPI claim - £1,800

NatWest - PPI claim - £6,200

NatWest - PPI claim - £3,000

Co-op Bank - PPI claim - £5,200

Halifax - PPI claim - £2,800

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £1,900

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £2,700

NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - £13,400

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Agreed ring the fos again

Tell them they are short changing you.

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...
I obviously have not made myself clear here.

 

The account was terminated in 2006.

 

We have received the PPI premiums paid plus £712 in compound interest.

 

We are still some £1400 short in compound interest (as per the above calcs).

 

Stat interest will be due on this £1400 underpayment from 2006 until the date of payout. Hence, about £2500 in total.

 

But, the big question is...

 

How do I get them to accept they have underpaid me

 

or how do I prove it to them?

 

This problem of 'associated interest' and underpayments is not just NatWest but many Companies

are short changing on PPI refunds. I am in the same situation as you but mine is with Barclaycard.

I asked the FOS to intervene on the subject of 'associated interest' some 18 months ago and i am still waiting for a result !

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This problem of 'associated interest' and underpayments is not just NatWest but many Companies

are short changing on PPI refunds. I am in the same situation as you but mine is with Barclaycard.

I asked the FOS to intervene on the subject of 'associated interest' some 18 months ago and i am still waiting for a result !

 

Sorry to hi-jack thread but I am in the same boat with NatWest.

 

It's taken me a nearly a year to get a breakdown of their estimated premiums but still awaiting further explanation regarding associated / compound interest calculations. Same original response from Bank regarding complexity in which the FOS adjudicator agreed with and quoted the banks comments word for word when I spoke to them :shock:

 

I will be subbing this thread with interest as find it so frustrating in the way the banks just quote a figure without any concise breakdown.

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Since I last posted I have complained to the CEO of RBS. My complaint was passed to the 'PPI Executive Concerns Team' in Manchester. (Yes, I know, another desk in the same quagmire).

 

I received a reply a few days ago, as always, telling me I am wrong and they are right. With it was a print-out of PART of a spreadsheet. It has five columns:

1. Statement date

2. Monthly PPI

3. Monthly rate of interest (1.39% - throughout the 8 year life of the card!!)

4. Compound interest on premiums.

5. 8% interest on surplus redress.

 

Naturally it showed very similar final figures as the PPI payout I am disputing.

 

Interestingly, from August 98 (the start date) until July 2001, their monthly PPI premiums are totally different to the actual ones on my statements. They total £52 under the actual premiums charged. They have no excuse for this as I have previously supplied them with copies of my early statements.

 

I have reconstructed the account on two (different) spreadsheets found on here and they both show I have been underpaid some £1600, which I suspect is to do with associated compound interest, a matter I have some difficulty getting my head around.

 

Please can anyone point me towards any relevant threads where I may learn more?

 

Thanks all.

Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

nec temere nec timide

 

So far, all done free for friends:

Cabot - F&F reduced debt by £7700 (70%)

NatWest - PPI claim - £1,800

NatWest - PPI claim - £6,200

NatWest - PPI claim - £3,000

Co-op Bank - PPI claim - £5,200

Halifax - PPI claim - £2,800

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £1,900

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £2,700

NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - £13,400

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Since I last posted I have complained to the CEO of RBS. My complaint was passed to the 'PPI Executive Concerns Team' in Manchester. (Yes, I know, another desk in the same quagmire).

 

I received a reply a few days ago, as always, telling me I am wrong and they are right. With it was a print-out of PART of a spreadsheet. It has five columns:

1. Statement date

2. Monthly PPI

3. Monthly rate of interest (1.39% - throughout the 8 year life of the card!!)

4. Compound interest on premiums.

5. 8% interest on surplus redress.

 

Naturally it showed very similar final figures as the PPI payout I am disputing.

 

Interestingly, from August 98 (the start date) until July 2001, their monthly PPI premiums are totally different to the actual ones on my statements. They total £52 under the actual premiums charged. They have no excuse for this as I have previously supplied them with copies of my early statements.

 

I have reconstructed the account on two (different) spreadsheets found on here and they both show I have been underpaid some £1600, which I suspect is to do with associated compound interest, a matter I have some difficulty getting my head around.

 

Please can anyone point me towards any relevant threads where I may learn more?

 

Thanks all.

 

Would suggest you havea read of the following MBNA Interpretative Calculations

 

consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?372400-MBNA-PPI-Award-%93Interpretative%94-Calculations

 

If the FOS don't understand whats going on then we have no chance of getting

proper PPI redress refunds.

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Thanks for that - that's my evening's reading sorted.

Love your enemies - it drives them crazy.

Thanks to Bobby Thompson (1911-1988) for the user name:"Let them knock, the paint lasts longer than the skin".

nec temere nec timide

 

So far, all done free for friends:

Cabot - F&F reduced debt by £7700 (70%)

NatWest - PPI claim - £1,800

NatWest - PPI claim - £6,200

NatWest - PPI claim - £3,000

Co-op Bank - PPI claim - £5,200

Halifax - PPI claim - £2,800

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £1,900

NatWest - debt identified as statute barred - £2,700

NatWest - loan identified as unenforceable - £13,400

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