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balina2

Lowell/shoe's Claimform - EGG Pers Loan

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that's willy waving to unsettle you

 

its for THEM to prove its NOT statute barred

 

not for YOU to prove it IS.


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The last message from them was to say

 

Should you still refuse to provide us with the relevant documents and at the hearing the Court decides to provide you with the opportunity to rely on any further evidence,

 

then we will invite the court to adjourn our application and relist it at the first available opportunity, after 28 days, to enable our client to consider the same.

 

In addition we will be seeking an order that you pay the costs occasioned by the hearing as such costs would have been avoided had you disclosed the relevant documentation beforehand

 

Can we see this letter in full (verbatim) ?


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I note you believe it is not appropriate to send the bank statement directly to us,

however, I would draw your attention to the Civil Procedure Rules 1998, Rule 24.5(1),

in which evidence upon which you intend to rely in response to our Application,

must be filed and served at least 7 days before the Summary Judgment Hearing.

 

This was made clear in our Application Notice dated 22 June 2016.

Accordingly you are now out of time to submit any evidence on which you wish to rely and it is not permissible to turn up at court with further evidence on the day.

 

In the circumstances,

I remain willing to provide you with until midday tomorrow to provide the requested documentation.

Should you fail to do so, I will have no alternative but to invite the Court to disregard the same, as our client’s position will be prejudiced as they have not had the opportunity to consider the same.

 

I confirm that any documents disclosed during the course of these proceedings will remain confidential and will only be used for the purpose of these proceedings.

 

Should you still refuse to provide us with the relevant documents and at the hearing the Court decides to provide you with the opportunity to rely on any further evidence, then we will invite the court to adjourn our application and relist it at the first available opportunity, after 28 days, to enable our client to consider the same.

 

In addition we will be seeking an order that you pay the costs occasioned by the hearing as such costs would have been avoided had you disclosed the relevant documentation beforehand.

 

We trust this will not be necessary and that you will now provide the statements to which you refer together with copies of statements from any other current accounts you may have that the payments could have been made from.

 

Again, if the hearing is adjourned we shall seek an order from the court that you disclose details of all current accounts in your name for the relevant period together with copy statements.

 

We reserve the right to draw this email to the attention of the court if necessary.

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they have sent me another one today!

 

Do I still submit a witness statement as above?

Will I be penalised for not responding to them?

Is there anything to gain from responding to them to ask that I request they disclose proof of payment?

 

I write further to my email below, to which I have not received a response.

 

To enable my client to consider the statements to which you refer, could you please provide copies of the same, within the next 7 days.

 

If it is your intention to produce the statements at the re-listed hearing, I would like to remind you that under CPR 24.5(1), evidence upon which you intend to rely in response to our Application, must be filed and served at least 7 days before the Summary Judgment Hearing.

 

As previously advised, should you refuse to provide us with the relevant documents and at the hearing the Court decides to provide you with the opportunity to rely on any further evidence, then we will invite the Court to adjourn our application and relist it at the first available opportunity, after 28 days, to enable our client to consider the same. In addition, we will be seeking an order that you pay the costs occasioned by the hearing as such costs would have been avoided had you disclosed the relevant documentation beforehand.

 

I trust this will not be necessary and that you will now provide the statements to which you refer, together with copies of statements from any other current accounts you may have, that the payments could have been made from. I reiterate that if the hearing is adjourned we shall seek an order from the Court that you disclose details of all current accounts in your name for the relevant period, together with copy statements.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 7 days.

 

Kind regards,

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You need to submit a witness statement, otherwise their claim is pretty much uncontested. Draw Andyorch's attention to the WS I posted further up - see if he thinks it's ok.

 

You do not need to provide proof that payments weren't made.

You only need to make the assertion that they weren't made by you or on your behalf and request that the Claimant supplies full details of the payments and thus identify how those payments can be attributed to you.

 

If they come up with the payment source then you can then either accept or deny them, and in so doing, you might then (and only then) have to disclose account statements that disprove the Claimant's position.

 

Don't give them any details of your accounts unnecessarily - who know's what they'll concoct.

They're trying to confuse you.

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I've finally had a response to my witness statement today (hearing is Monday).

 

Which essentially is them saying they don't have to prove the payments and my argument is implausible.

 

They also assert I'm in the wrong for not sending them my bank statements.

 

Is there anymore that I should do at this point in preparation for the hearing?

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How have they responded... a witness statement in response to yours, or one of their usual emails?

 

In terms of what you should be doing, I

would simply get your argument as tight as possible and well versed.

 

Type up a simple skeleton argument that outlines your main points and give a copy both to the judge and the opposition in court

- then just read through it point by point.

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More detail required balina2 if you want advice...what exactly have you received....please scan in and upload if possible (obscure any identifiable data first)

 

Andy


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Hi,

I wanted to give an update following my hearing.

 

The Judge asked me why I had submitted a witness statement which contained a defence but did not submit an "amended defence" to S-smiths and the Court.

 

I explained that at the time I was provided with evidence of the original debt (May) that I had contacted the Court who told me that the claim was discontinued and I could not provide an amended defence.

 

And that I had explained this to S-smiths and told them why I was defending it (I wanted proof it wasn't statute barred).

He had copies of all emails where this correspondence took place.

 

The Judge said he took on board my explanation but that because S-smiths had emailed me to say that the claim was stayed and asked me for an amended defence (to be submitted to them directly).

That I should have complied with their request.

 

I explained that I didn't fully understand what to comply with when it came to their requests or not (as in I inferred I didn't trust them) and that I was led by what the Court said (aka I couldn't amend my defence).

 

He therefore concluded that if I pay £1,000 by the 16th Jan (court costs for Shoosmiths essentially) that he would give me until 4pm on that date to submit an amended defence.

 

Am I right to be heartened by the Judge giving me a further opportunity to submit an amended defence?

Which is essentially my witness statement argument.

 

Any advice on a template for an amended defence vs the witness statement?

And do you think it wise to attach bank statements showing no proof payment in the last 6 years as exhibits?

 

Also the court letter (sent post hearing) does not contain information on where I make the £1000 to (I assume S-smiths?).

 

I don't know how usual this situation is or not so any advice on how you would approach this from here would be very welcome.

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As per my last post #159...we cant read between the lines what the court is ordering...we need uploads of the orders.

 

Andy


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I have uploaded the most recent Witness Statement (14th Dec) that S-smiths sent me 5 days prior to the hearing.

Ssmiths.pdf

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The court confirmed I'm to pay the £1000 direct to S-smiths

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This £1000 being costs for the Summary Judgment hearing ?


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so NCO Europe used the £1PO for a CCA request as payment against the account

and the regular £3.61 payments they cannot prove who made them

 

not for the defendant to prove they didn't make those payments

 

shame the claimant cant get proof of who made them from the original creditor.

 

which is their problem not the defendants.


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Hi,

yes the £1000 costs are for the Summary Judgement hearing.

The Solicitor did want more but the Judge felt their requested costs were too much.

 

The Solicitor followed me to the train station after the court hearing,

he literally walked directly behind me all the way there,

despite me trying to move further away from him....

so at least I know they won't be using the money for cab fare expenses ....

 

Point 19 in their Witness Statement has very much thrown/confused me!

As I never made any payments to Egg then or this NCO Europe Ltd (I have never even heard of the latter).

 

They cannot tell me the alleged source of payments for the sporadic £3.61 amounts (nor source of payments for these fabricated Egg/NCO ones either) but I can show bank statements from those alleged payment dates to show I never made them.

 

I therefore still wonder two things, what template do I use for an amended defence?

I thought it was pretty much what I said in the Witness Statement (which the Judge said was "helpful" and "contains a defence").

And do I attach my bank statements as Exhibits?

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This is very difficult and very tricky as I believe the court has put you between a rock and a hard place by imposing the costs order before allowing you to proceed.In fairness the court should have reserved costs in the case until the final judgment was concluded.

 

In effect you either pay that £1000 by the date stated or your defence is struck out pursuant to CPR 3.4..this is what CPR 3.4 states...

 

3.4

(1) In this rule and rule 3.5, reference to a statement of case includes reference to part of a statement of case.

(2) The court may strike out(GL) a statement of case if it appears to the court –

(a) that the statement of case discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing or defending the claim;

(b) that the statement of case is an abuse of the court’s process or is otherwise likely to obstruct the just disposal of the proceedings; or

© that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order.

 

And yet if you manage to pay the £1000 which obviously they know you cant the above will be disregarded and you will be allowed to submit a further defence ?

 

And yet I cant see that any of the above really apply to your statement ?

 

If the claimant failed to get summary judgment at the hearing...why was they allowed costs > as costs is normally only allowed to the winning party...they didnt get SJ?

 

Andy


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did you send a CCA request to anyone about that time the £1 got credited?

doubt if you even knew what one was at the stage?


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I never had any correspondence with or from this NCO Europe outfit it is entirely fabricated on their behalf.

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If I upload a draft defence would you be so kind as to review / offer me any feedback?

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Hi

 

Would you be kind enough to review my amended defence and offer me some feedback on it?

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Have you paid the £1000 costs order ?

 

You haven't responded to my last post #169 ?


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I haven't paid the £1000 yet but intend to find a way to as otherwise I've no ability to submit an amended defence.

 

I feel damned if I do and damned if I don’t.

But I can't let S-smiths get away with making up payments.

 

The reasoning the Judge gave as to why I should pay the costs are because he believes S-smiths gave me opportunity to submit an amended defence which he said had I done then it may have negated the need for the hearing.

 

I explained that I didn't submit an amended defence, despite S-smiths asking me for one, because the Court had told me I couldn't

frankly I didn't trust S-smiths when they said to submit an amended defence to them.

But he said in his opinion I had every opportunity to have submitted one.

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