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    • Thank you everyone for your quick responses I just wish I posted here in the first place    I probably shouldn't have filled in the claim form however on the letter it said I had limited time to do so and because I was dealing with CST law trying to come to an agreement with paying off the debt I didn't think it would get to this point and now I have probably made my situation worst. Of course, I would have posted here first before sending it off had I not been in communication with CST to set up an agreement.    I sent the letter back to the court as some point in early August, the issue date on the claim form is 28th July and the most recent letter I have received 'Notice of fast track' is dated 18th November    If I am honest I can't fully remember what I wrote word for word in my defence, it would have been along the lines of why I left, my reasons and the fact I returned to my old career in an office plus taking a pay cut to do so. There wasn't much room to write a long winded defence so I kept it relativity short.   The above document Andy has posted is the exact document I am now looking at very confused in what exactly I put where    I just want to re-iterate I never agreed with this money I owe due to the training bond but it has gone on for so long at this point I'm happy to set up a payment plan if the balance can get reduced or a small one off payment upfront and this is exactly what I was trying to do prior to receiving the most recent letter    I have had zero communication from CST law, Centrica advised me to deal with them directly and I was waiting for a response from CST with the offer we had put across to Centrica - I chased it multiple times the following weeks and they kept telling me they haven't had a response and when they do we'll contact you which they still have not   Ideally I would rather not give them any money however I feel like I am out of options at what I probably should have done years ago is attempt to get it reduced and set up a payment plan    Please let me know if I have missed any critical info out    Thanks again for everyones help    What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? I left a British Gas apprenticeship within the first 12 months of starting and went back to my old career in an office , my reasons for leaving were down to the completely differant job role which I realised quikcly was not for me and it was impacting my mental health massively. The claim is for a training bond which was in a contract I signed based on a sliding scale Year 1 - £9,000 year 2 £6,000 year 3 £3,000     What is the total value of the claim? £13433    Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No  Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Training bond due to leaving an apprenticeship before 3 years    When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? They have sent me a virtually signed document with the contract   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? No   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Centrica are claimant, CST law are dealing and the court   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I believe so yes   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? I have had multiple letters like everyone else who has been on the forum over the years regarding this matter   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? I am unsure, but when I left I had contested the original claim as I was dealing directly with Centrica’s collection team and they never got back to me after the final email I had sent and didn’t hear anything until years down the line   Why did you cease payments? N/A   What was the date of your last payment? N/A   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Correct I oringinally contested what was owed back in 2017 and gave my reasons for leaving and I assumed the matter was closed   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No  
    • OK thanks again Andy.   And understood 👍😉
    • Thank you for this. The first thing to be say is that this means that you are winning. It is pretty well unheard of in my experience for the bank to give way and finally return the money. The fact that they have done this under the threat of a judgement for breach of statutory duty indicates even more that they are worried about their position. Nowhere have they indicated that they have complied with the requirements of the Proceeds of Crime Act and informed the National crime agency. I don't believe they have and this is a very serious breach of statutory duty. Not only that it is a very serious breach of the FCA BCOBS regulations in that they are required to treat you fairly. Treating you fairly in this case means that they must comply with the rest of their statutory duties. It appears that they really haven't done this at all and that they have acted in an arbitrary way in disregard of the law and that they are hoping to get away with it. I find myself wondering how many other hundreds of people have been treated in exactly the same way – and you are probably the first ever to have stood up to them and to get them worried. I think I've already indicated that a press contact of mine in the Sunday Times would be very interested in this story. He has already run stories about the very poor standards applied by banks when deciding that their customers are involved in some fraudulent behaviour. The first thing to say about the letter which you have received is that they are trying to apply conditions to releasing your own money. It's your money and there should be no conditions and my suggestion is that you object to this. Secondly, not only are they threatening to continue to withhold your own money – but also they are saying that if they release it to you you will simply have the net figure without any kind of interest or compensation. It's clear that while they have had your money, they have invested it and earn money on it. They have probably been lending it out at between 16% and 20% and although the usual rate of interest is 8%, it seems to me that justice can only be served by repaying you your money plus the commercial rate of interest – at a compound rate. Normally the 8% is calculated at simple. Thirdly, they are not offering to pay you any compensation and clearly they are hoping to get away with it without any kind of sanction or not even a slap on the wrist.   Fourthly, they had the nerve to impose a seven day deadline. Don't worry about their deadline. It's a load of huff and puff. This is all part of their bluff game designed to intimidate you. At the end of seven days – what? Are they then going to insist on going to court?   If they really believe that they had done everything correctly and that the money was fraudulent, then they would not offer it to you back under any circumstances. It would be illegal for them to do so. You can be certain that these people do not want to go to court. In fact they probably wish they had never started.   Finally, they want the matter to be kept confidential – and I can't say I blame them. I would be ashamed if people knew that I had treated somebody else in this way and I'm sure they are worried about reputational damage. I'm also sure that there are extremely worried about what will happen if you get a judgement against them for breach of statutory duty. It will have to be reported to the FCA. It will have to be reported to the NCA. And of course it should be reported to the newspapers because people need to know what is going on. If you want, you can simply accept their proposal – get your money back, given confidentiality – and that's the end of the matter. However, you have no idea how this will impact on your record in the future. I imagine that they will bar you from ever opening an account with them again. – But at least you will have your money and you can get on with your life. However, if you want you can stand your ground and make it clear to them that you are going to be mucked around and treated like this and that you are prepared to go to court if they won't make a proper offer. I understand that you need to pay a court fee of about £350 in the next seven days. I expect that the bank is making this offer now hoping to dissuade you from spending any more money and hoping that you will back down. If you have the money to proceed then I would suggest very strongly that it will be a very serious sign of strength that you tell the bank that you're not interested in that you are paying the fee for the next stage of the court process. If the bank knows that you've called their bluff on this and that you have been prepared to invest further money in moving this legal action forward, then they will start to reflect and I can perfectly well imagine that they will make you another more interesting offer – once again on conditions of confidentiality. Without seeing any further offer, I'm already suggesting that you will probably be best off turning it down. In any event, I would remind you going back several months that I already predicted that the bank would make you confidential offer – and that has happened. I'm not saying that I'm always going to be right here – but I think that now basically the bank have pretty well admitted that they need to pay you your money, there is no chance of you losing it. You will get your money and it really is just a question of how much else you will get in addition. If you'd like to continue then let me know and I will suggest a draft response to them.
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I have an ongoing issue with the local council about the council tax.



they messed up my direct debits (sent it to them 3 times) and then refused to honour agreements we made over the phone

(I know should have been in writting) to repay the arrears.

They have since added the liability order and worse still stopped replying to my emails.


To be fair I have stopped trying for the last few months to get through to them and not made anymore payments,

though we have made payments in the past on this years CTax.



Now I have had two visit letters dated a week apart, but pushed through the letter box only a few days apart from Rossendales, charging visiting fees of 24.50 and 18.00.


I know I dont have to deal with them, but do I have to pay the fees?

- I want the council to deal with the situation as I'm planning to apeal the liability fee in the first place

and complain about the level of service they have given in the second.

I can pay off the council between now and March.


Should I fire off the letter in the sticky to Rossendales amending it to say something about a dispute with the council over the amount owed and that I will deal with the council directly.

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Rossendales as yet appear to have done nothing wrong - unless you can argue the Visits were not made when they said they were.


As for the Council it would appear that they are guilty of maladministration. Appealingthe Liability Order willprobably get you no where as the argument as to whether you are liable is basically down to a yes or no answer. In your case I would contact your local Councillor and get them to take things up with the Council.


In the meantime adopt a siege like mentality and refuse to have anything to do with the Bailiff, he will eventually hand it back to the Council when he realises he is getting nothing from you. You should also start paying the Council either online or via automated phone to show a willingness to pay, do this on a regular basis and an affordable amount.



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If you can't get any sense from the Council Tax Dept at Manchester City Council, try contacting this guy:

Pete Bradshaw

Technical Officer North 1

Council Tax Unit

P O Box 147


M15 5TU

Telephone 0161 219 6133

Fax 0161 953 8226

E Mail [email protected]



After getting no joy from front-line staff within the Council Tax Dept, I was finally transferred to this guy. He's no push-over but, from experience, once the situation is explained to him, he'll do his best to help.


My CT liability was over £1,200 (dating back to 2005-06 - accumulating whilst I was in receipt of Incapacity Benefit - MCC didn't process the CT benefit forms properly). Rossies were instructed and proceeded to a heavy communication campaign over a period of some 15+ months. I eventually gave up with Rossies when they consistently tried to pressure me into making an arrangement I had no way of fulfilling and I then insisted that MCC take the account back. They did. I'll be paying them £12.50/month for something like 96 months until the debt is clear but it's manageable and its the amount I determined as being realistic and sustainable given my other financial commitments.


Don't give up - there is a way!


Good Luck!




Impecunious! :-)

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  • 1 year later...

I am upto date with my Council Tax now (after being in arears and getting a Liabilty Order).


Rossendales continue to hassle me, I have never bothered with them just paid the Council directly, and ignored the visit letters they posted. They didnt bother to even knock on my door and just pushed the piece of paper through it.


Today I found a postcard in an envelope on my doormat when I got home - called an "enforcement notice". On calling the bailiff on the card he says that dispite me being upto date the liability order means they can demand full payment - is this right?


The bailiff was actually very nice (I will wait and see!) and said he will pass it back onto the Council - I'm going to phone them to check!

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I am only just upto date in the last two weeks (ie I have paid what I should year to date).


Is the libility order for a set amount? - if so does that mean the bailiff can demand it all at once?

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Bailiffs can say and do as they like, whether its in the regs or not is a different matter.

How much was the liability order for.

How much are the fees and charges the bailiff wants.

Did he do a levy

if so what did he levy on.

You may have to pay the two visit fees whether he visited or not.

How much is the bailiff demanding off you. Her cannot demand the whole amount on the liability order if you have paid it off.

The liability order is what you owe the council, not the bailiffs. The council and bailiffs fees are two separate amounts.

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I never pay the bailiff charges, they tried to charge me for visits last year - but I refused to deal with them.


He did no levy as I wasnt in, and I have no car.


I dont know what the order amount was for as I didnt get one! - however the Council said I did.


I owed £880 and Have paid £500 to the Council.


The Bailiff didnt seem to have the correct upto date amounts (unless he was including his charges).

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I suggest you contact the council and request how much is owed on the liability order.

They should also have a record on what is owed to the bailiff ie his fees.

I cant see why he has contacted you demanding you pay up, did you tell him you had been paying the council?

If no levy has been made then the most you would owe the bailiff is £42.50.

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  • 3 years later...

Hi, hoping you can advise.


Last tax year I had an issue paying Council Tax and owed £300 at the start of the new year - this included the liability order costs they added on.


Currently Rossendales have got involved again this year, due to the balance from last year


. I offered to pay £100 per month, starting at my next pay date,

they refused this and said I had to start two weeks before this - which I couldn't do.


I didn't receive this reply (it was via email, but went into spam - gmail doesn't like them!) - and


I contacted the council who agreed to give me a months grace to sort things out.


I have made the bailiffs aware of this but they say they will not accept a payment plan with me as I have broken the original one (the one that went into the spam folder),

and want £300 upfront, or they will progress onto the next stage.


My questions are:


1 - Can the same bailiffs charge fees when they have already charged fees on the account (but failed to collect the last tax year)

- this seems to be charging to collect the debt twice.


2 - Is it reasonable to refuse an offer to repay in these circumstances,

I haven't been given a real chance to start paying, and assumed that the months grace, that doesn't end for another week, that the matter was on hold.


3 - If they progress onto the next stage is there someway of appealing this?

- should I do it now to put the matter into dispute, would this stop they moving onto the next stage.


4 - Do I have to deal with the bailiffs, last year I refused and sent any payments to the Council.


5 - Doesn't a payment agreement have to be agreed by both parties before it can be broken?



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The only reason they want it to go to the next stage is because they can charge lots for it

By sending a bailiff out £235 will be added to the bill


Serious grounds for a formally complaint to the ceo of the council

Copy in local MP and local councillor's

Get on to them tomorrow should get fast results

  • Confused 1

If i have helped in any way hit my star.

any advice given is based on experience and learnt from this site :-)

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