No notice of Enforcement

[jandl]

Hi, just a quick bit of advice please,

 

 

I received a couple of txts from an enforcement agency requesting that I call them.

I realised that it must be about non payment of this years council tax.

 

 

I went to my councils offices and requested that they might take it back from the bailiffs if I paid them £600 that day (the 1st of July)

and the remaining £591 before the end of the month.

 

 

They said that they would accept the £600 but would not recall from the bailiffs.

 

 

I work away from home most of the time

 

 

on the 26th I received 2 voicemails on my phone from an enforcement agent outside my house threatening this that and the other.

 

Arriving home a day later I was very surprised to find nothing had been put through the letterbox,

I rang the enforcement agency, who put me straight through to the agent,

 

 

amongst other things I asked him why there was no letter,

he said there was and he wasnt going to argue about it (the lying sod).

 

 

He also mentioned that on the 21st they had received notification of my payment to the council

and subsequent promise of full payment by the end of the month.

I did pay the council their remaining 591 as promised and they accepted it.

 

There is a lot more to this than what I am willing to put in the public domain at the moment,

but essentially my question at the moment is that as

 

 

I received absolutely no mail from the agency and especially no notice of enforcement,

if I was to now pay the supposed outstanding balance of £310 (75 and 235)

just so that I can live normally and not in fear of the idiot turning up at the door again,

would this go against me in my future claim that no notice etc was served upon me,

would I seen to be admitting I received them by paying.

Thanks for now

[dx100uk]

who's the bailiff and the council please?

 

 

could be equita run?

 

 

I would advise the following:

 

 

 

Here is something to be getting on with.

.

First of all establish from the Council how much was owing etc

.

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

...........................

.

Next you need to send off for a breakdown of the charges the Bailiff applied.

.

Here's an example,

use and ADAPT at will and best sent initially by email backed up by a copy in the post.

.

"From:

My Name

My Address

.

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

.

Ref: Account No: 123456

.

Dear Sir

.

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

.

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

.

This is NOT a Subject Access Request

uest under the Data Protection Act S7 1998

so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

.

I require this information within 14 days.

.

Yours faithfully

.

Ripped off customer"

.

[brassnecked]

Problem here is that the system is automated ands will automatically send the account for LO if payments are missed and the Council Drone cannot at that point of your payment remove the fees, as the £75 is due to the bailiff, they could however take it back in vire of the arrangement to prevent a visit and £239 being added as enforcement fee, I wonder if this council has a Crapita infestation and a stitch up with Equita or Ross 'n Robbers, two bailiff companies Capita just happen to own?

 

The lack of any letters would tend to suggest this is the case.

[jandl]

Thanks for the replies, but the above points are already taken care of. The council have not yet stated if they are going to send part of my payment to the enforcement agency, which means that if I pay the £310 at the moment this will be a payment soley of the agencies "fees". Could this be used against me at a later date that by paying I was admitting that I owed these fees?

 

Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

I suggest a formal wriiten dispute is entered into with head of revenue services at the council and the EA company. If no notice of enforcement and no enforcement visit, then no fees are due.

[jandl]

Just had an interesting call with the council, the amount that I have paid the council which is the total balance owing for this year and a fee for obtaining the liability order means that as far as they are concerned I owe them nothing, they will not be sending any part of it to the agency and in her words "anything which the baliffs are chasing me for now is their fees", all recorded. So my question still exists if I pay them today so that I may have some peace whilst I go through the long process of complaint will I be in some way admitting that I do owe them their "fees"

 

Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

Just had an interesting call with the council, the amount that I have paid the council which is the total balance owing for this year and a fee for obtaining the liability order means that as far as they are concerned I owe them nothing, they will not be sending any part of it to the agency and in her words "anything which the baliffs are chasing me for now is their fees", all recorded. So my question still exists if I pay them today so that I may have some peace whilst I go through the long process of complaint will I be in some way admitting that I do owe them their "fees"

 

Thanks

 

Yes, if you pay the EA you accept they may be due. Once paid, they will ignore you.

[jandl]

Yes, if you pay the EA you accept they may be due. Once paid, they will ignore you.

 

Surely I can only accept that they are due not maybe due

[Peterbard]

Whatever the person said on the phone the compliance fee will go to the bailiff, legally they must send it, if the sum has been allotted to them for recovery. This means that the liability order will still have an amount outstanding.

 

The EA will continue to enforce for this and the remainder of his fees. This is because the sum they are chasing (the "amount outstanding")includes the sum on the liability order and any fees due.

 

If you wait it out until the account is returned the liability order will not be repaid it will be short the £75 compliance fee plus a pro-rata amount on the balance which will be due to the bailiff.

 

If you can show that no enforcment notices were sent, then all that will be due in fees will be the compliance fee.

[jandl]

 

If you can show that no enforcment notices were sent, then all that will be due in fees will be the compliance fee.

 

And there lies the problem, they do not have to prove they sent it, I have to prove I did not receive it, which is impossible, even a sworn affidavit is not proof enough the agency. However the bailiff did not leave any letter either when he visited, and fortunately there is proof of this from cctv, I have spoken to him on the phone and he says he did, we are part way through a complaints procedure, which I am hoping will end in court so that he can continue to argue he posted it then confront him with the video evidence, which will hopefully see him lose his license and further my case that I have received no notice. There is a lot more to this, nearly 2 years of it.

I was still under the impression that if they sent it back to the council that there would be no fees, or has this changed. I know legally that they are supposed to send it but I was told by the council that they were not and I owed nothing, 3 times I asked are you sure.

[Peterbard]

Yes , the money you paid was whilst the account was"under an enforcment power" section 13 TCoG(fees) is clear about the dispersal of funds where the amount outstanding is not paid in full. As far as they are concerned this payment was the result of successful enforcement action.

 

The compliance fee is due of course on the receipt of the notice by the EA from the authority and not dependant on any notices.(other than the ones from the authority of course).

 

I would pay this if I were you and issue compliant about th e enforcment fee under the arguments you have raised here, otherwise it may muddy the waters.

[jandl]

 

I would pay this if I were you and issue compliant about th e enforcment fee under the arguments you have raised here, otherwise it may muddy the waters.

 

Thanks for the reply, but what does issue compliant mean

 

Thanks

[Peterbard]

Thanks for the reply, but what does issue compliant mean

 

Thanks

 

I thought you said you ere half way through the complaint procedure ?

 

Then you say that the baiiff may loose his license, does this mean that you are pursuing an EAC2 ?

 

By the way are you saying that before the visit you had no contact with the EA whatsoever ?

[jandl]

I thought you said you ere half way through the complaint procedure ?

 

Then you say that the baiiff may loose his license, does this mean that you are pursuing an EAC2 ?

 

By the way are you saying that before the visit you had no contact with the EA whatsoever ?

 

Complaint through council and agency is now exhausted, council not really bothered as indicated by last contact with them as detailed above.

 

I had no contact with them except for 3 txt messages sent to an old unused phone, no post whatsoever.

 

Not sure on my next step at the moment as EAC2 might not be necessary at this moment as the agent will have dug himself far too large a hole when I present the video.

 

At this moment in time council say I owe nothing, agents say I owe £310 surely the council are the are in charge, the agency is just there representitive. If I am being threatened with removal of goods then by me paying the agency £310 now it could not be taken as me admitting the fee as it is payed under duress.

[Peterbard]

As said I would pay the £75 otherwise the LO will not be paid then contest the enforcment fee on the grounds that no notice was sent and no attendance.

 

You can start an action in the county court, or make complaint to the LGO, or just wait it out.

 

I was a little confused about how they got your mobile number if there had been no previous contact, hence my question.

[jandl]

The LO was for the years council tax and a £95 charge for obtaining the LO. I accept a £75 fee would have been added when the LO was sent to the agency, so that should be showing on my balance at the council, but it isn't. They had my old number from some previous LO'S that I went to great lengths to settle before this years tax year began, which unfortunately made me late with this years payment hence new LO.

In fairness the agents from previous to this one were on the whole pretty fair and courteous, though the agencies charges were not. This particular agent has not spoken one word of truth and broken nearly everyone of the guidelines. Had I received the notice of enforcement I would have paid within the 7 days, infact I had paid over half directly to the council the day before they allegedly sent it. Its not just about the money, I do not feel it is fair that others, with less knowledge than myself should have to face this particular nasty man.

[Peterbard]

Not necessarily showing on the council accounts, the account has been passed to the bailiff so it is for them to keep a track until it returns, the matter of if the compliance fee is taken now or when the account is returned is a matter of their individual procedures, but which ever way the do pass on the fees, they will have to part with the 75 compliance fee.

 

This means that there will be a shortfall on the liability order so the total amount owing the council will remain outstanding.

 

As said I would still challenge the enforcment fee though if what you say is correct.

[Peterbard]

The point is though, if you do not pay the compliance fee they will be justified in continuing the enforcment, no matter what the enforceability of the enforcement fee may be.

[Bailiff Advice]

And there lies the problem, they do not have to prove they sent it, I have to prove I did not receive it, which is impossible, even a sworn affidavit is not proof enough the agency.

 

I was still under the impression that if they sent it back to the council that there would be no fees, or has this changed. I know legally that they are supposed to send it but I was told by the council that they were not and I owed nothing, 3 times I asked are you sure.

 

I have been on leave for the past week and therefore could not respond to this query any sooner.

 

Before getting to the stage of a Notice of Enforcement being sent you should have received plenty of documentation from the local authority. As a Liability Order may only been considered if there have been two payment defaults on the account then you would have been sent TWO reminder letters. You would then have been sent a SUMMONS advising of the court date. Although there is no longer a legal obligation for the council to send a letter FOLLOWING the granting of the Liability Order it is nonetheless the case that most councils are still sending the letter. That letter would be to advise that a Liability Order had been granted and that if not paid within 14 days that the debt would be sent to an enforcement agent. Accordingly, if payment had not been made, a Notice of Enforcement should be expected in the post.

 

The legal position is that under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act a document is deemed served unless the contrary can be proved.

 

You are correct in that if the enforcement agent voluntarily returns the case back to the local authority that all bailiff fees are removed.

 

What documents did you receive from the local authority BEFORE the debt had been passed to the enforcement agent?

[Peterbard]

The return of the order only applies to outstanding fees of course.

It is not the case that fees already paid on completed actions (ie compliance ) should be returned.

[jandl]

I received everything from the council that should have been sent, I knew from past experience there is give at all in there wanting full payment. I had been saving up to pay it in full before I received the notice of enforcement. I knew I would have to pay the £75 but would have made sure I had paid in full before the 7 clear days were up.

What annoys me even more is that the agent did not leave a letter as required by law either, though strangely the agency sent one the day after my initial complaint to the agent. I really hope to get the complaint to a stage where I can get the agent to swear he posted one and then produce the cctv. They should not be allowed to carry on this way

[Bailiff Advice]

I received everything from the council that should have been sent, I knew from past experience there is give at all in there wanting full payment. I had been saving up to pay it in full before I received the notice of enforcement. I knew I would have to pay the £75 but would have made sure I had paid in full before the 7 clear days were up.

 

You say that you received everything from the council. I assume therefore that included in the documentation was a letter from the council to advise you that a Liability Order had been granted and that unless paid within 14 days that the account would be sent straight over to the enforcement company.