Likely Home Repossession - Nationwide

[dx100uk]

is this the same property you had issues with nationwide over

in a past thread?

[tezzaa61]

is this the same property you had issues with nationwide over

in a past thread?

 

Yes it is.

[Ell-enn]

Hi,apologies for the delay I have been tied up with work and access difficulties

 

a few questions:

 

How much are the arrears on the mortgage ?

Would the person who wants to buy the house be able to prove right now that they have the funds to do so?

Would you be able to make any payments while the sale is going through ?

[tezzaa61]

Hi, the arrears are £4500.

Not sure about the answer to your second question.

I cant make any payments at all Im on ESA.

 

After talking to CAB,

they are suggesting I just see what funds I have after the sale, if any.

 

 

And then file either for bankruptcy or an IVA, if that's what its called.

 

 

I have total debts of about £16000.

 

I do have a rental property to move into btw.

[Ell-enn]

If you have somewhere to move into then at least that's one problem solved. Might be an ide to contact your potential buyer and see if they are able to proceed.

[tezzaa61]

Hi, sorry wasn't clear in my last reply.

 

CAB are suggesting to just allow repossession and then see what funds I have left.

[Lea_HTH]

CAB's advice is shockingly wrong.

 

You have a buyer for £64k, and your outstanding mortgage is £58k (does that include the £4.5k of arrears?). If the mortgage company repossess and manage to sell the property for £64k, you are going to be left with a horrendous shortfall, as they will add all manner of fees to the mortgage for the cost of repossession, preparing the property for resale, security etc., and those costs are often in the tens of thousands. Even at the lowest end, you are looking at around an additional £15k of costs on top of what you already owe.

 

If you sell, you will have the costs of selling (an agent if one is used for example), and if no agent is used, then just the costs of the solicitor, which could be as little as £1000 if you shop around. Anything left over from the sale after you have discharged the mortgages, is yours to help you set up home again elsewhere, or help you to discharge some of your other debts.

 

Don't hang about - sell, sell, sell...yes your buyer is getting a bargain, but so are you if you are definitely not in a position to pay the mortgage. (Have you applied for statutory mortgage interest payments if you are on ESA?)

 

Renting it out isn't an option as it's a residential mortgage, so even if the mortgage company agreed your payments would go up accordingly as it would be a rent to buy.

[Nihilus]

Sadly we do see repossessed properties sold way below the market price.

 

 

I will alert site team for you, but you might not receive a response until later in the day - do please keep an eye on your thread for responses.

 

The company will be required to conduct multiple valuations and cannot accept an offer without evidencing that they've attempted to obtain the best possible price. They will reject unreasonable offers below market value and cannot seek a fast sale.

 

Usually if it's sold below market price, or the lender has had to go to auction, it's due to issues with the property being in serious disrepair (and will have been on the market some time by this stage).

 

CAB's advice is shockingly wrong.

 

You have a buyer for £64k, and your outstanding mortgage is £58k (does that include the £4.5k of arrears?). If the mortgage company repossess and manage to sell the property for £64k, you are going to be left with a horrendous shortfall, as they will add all manner of fees to the mortgage for the cost of repossession, preparing the property for resale, security etc., and those costs are often in the tens of thousands. Even at the lowest end, you are looking at around an additional £15k of costs on top of what you already owe.

 

If you sell, you will have the costs of selling (an agent if one is used for example), and if no agent is used, then just the costs of the solicitor, which could be as little as £1000 if you shop around. Anything left over from the sale after you have discharged the mortgages, is yours to help you set up home again elsewhere, or help you to discharge some of your other debts.

 

Don't hang about - sell, sell, sell...yes your buyer is getting a bargain, but so are you if you are definitely not in a position to pay the mortgage. (Have you applied for statutory mortgage interest payments if you are on ESA?)

 

Renting it out isn't an option as it's a residential mortgage, so even if the mortgage company agreed your payments would go up accordingly as it would be a rent to buy.

 

Renting it out is an option, they can grant permission for the borrower to rent the property via concession if he has alternative accommodation.

 

This can be done on a temporary basis and does not require a permanent conversion to a BTL mortgage, although they probably wouldn't do this at this stage as the difficulty with payments does not appear to be a temporary issue.

 

£15,000.00 in costs also seems a little steep, I've seen a few cases where fees and costs have gone that high but it is certainly the extreme and not the norm. Usually the only way to accrue charges of that amount is by prolonging action over a multi-year period.

 

I also have someone that would rent it, but apparently, as I owe arrears, I couldn't rent it out until the arrears are paid.

Is that a legal requirement?

 

It's not a legal requirement, but allowing you to rent the property is a temporary solution and your current situation does not appear to be temporary. Might also be an internal policy.

 

In regard to your potential buyer if he is offering £10,000.00 below market price, and your mortgage provider have already obtained a possession order meaning that solicitors fees and the like have already been incurred, then there's little point in accepting it.

 

In order for them to cancel the eviction you'd also need to be able to evidence that the buyer is still willing and able to go ahead with the sale, which might be a short order between now and Tuesday.

 

CABs advice might be best in this instance, making an application for the eviction to be cancelled at this stage would likely just prolong matters and further reduce any equity in the property.

[tezzaa61]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm on my phone replying, so can't cut and paste.

 

 

A bit more info:

 

The 58k outstanding amount I owe on the property is comprised: 50k to Nationwide, (which includes the 4.5k arrears) and 8k legal charge to a company that provided a loan for property improvements.

 

Re: The market value. I have had different valuations from the two estate agents I've used. The first one had me put it on the market at £79k the second one at £84k. It's been on the market with the second estate agent for about 6 weeks and I've regularly reduced the price down to the current one of £74k.

 

 

My head is in a spin with it all

 

I feel I should at least submit a N244 to the court to stop the eviction and attend court to put my case for renting out the property.

[Lea_HTH]

The company will be required to conduct multiple valuations and cannot accept an offer without evidencing that they've attempted to obtain the best possible price. They will reject unreasonable offers below market value and cannot seek a fast sale.

 

The mortgagor will find a buyer as quickly as possible as there is not much equity in the property and the longer they hold onto it, the more at risk is their security. It would be nice to think they'll do all they can to get the best price possible, but that is not the same as them actually doing so.

 

 

Usually if it's sold below market price, or the lender has had to go to auction, it's due to issues with the property being in serious disrepair (and will have been on the market some time by this stage).

ALL repossessed properties sell at lower than market rates - GUARANTEED. This is why judges are so keen to allow a mortgagee the time to sell the property themselves...in order to realise the best possible price.

 

 

 

Renting it out is an option, they can grant permission for the borrower to rent the property via concession if he has alternative accommodation.

 

This can be done on a temporary basis and does not require a permanent conversion to a BTL mortgage, although they probably wouldn't do this at this stage as the difficulty with payments does not appear to be a temporary issue.

It's not an option as OP already stated they had refused. Also, I have never, in all my years of dealing with repossession cases, seen one mortgagor agree to allow a tenant into a residential mortgaged property without changing the interest rate. There is a very simple reason for this - a tenant will gain rights of their own in the property, and a residential mortgage is not designed for this.

 

£15,000.00 in costs also seems a little steep, I've seen a few cases where fees and costs have gone that high but it is certainly the extreme and not the norm. Usually the only way to accrue charges of that amount is by prolonging action over a multi-year period.

Such costs are not even proportionate to the value of the property - so two properties worth £74k can be repossessed and sold, and one might attract costs of £15k and the other costs of £25k. I have only ever seen cases where fees are in the tens of thousands, it's rarer for them to be less than £15k than it is for them to be over £20k. And I have dealt with thousands of repossessions.

 

 

 

It's not a legal requirement, but allowing you to rent the property is a temporary solution and your current situation does not appear to be temporary. Might also be an internal policy.

Your response is misleading. It is a legal requirement as it is part of the residential mortgage contract.

 

In regard to your potential buyer if he is offering £10,000.00 below market price, and your mortgage provider have already obtained a possession order meaning that solicitors fees and the like have already been incurred, then there's little point in accepting it.

 

There is every point in accepting it. An offer (which may well be in cash for all you know) is an offer and a judge will likely allow some time to sell. However, having read earlier posts, it seems a 56 day order was already granted last year, so it is eviction that is pending, and the OP would need to make an N244 application to stay the warrant and use evidence of the buyer as the reason. However, this appears to have been done before, so whether the judge will be amenable is less likely.

 

In order for them to cancel the eviction you'd also need to be able to evidence that the buyer is still willing and able to go ahead with the sale, which might be a short order between now and Tuesday.

It's not an impossibility.

 

CABs advice might be best in this instance, making an application for the eviction to be cancelled at this stage would likely just prolong matters and further reduce any equity in the property.

CAB's advice was shocking. OP should make every effort to sell and get herself out of this mess without any further delay...he/she has been lucky up until now, but it is likely that luck is about to run out unless he/she does something to show that the sale will go through.

 

OP, if the purchaser is a cash buyer, have him/her attend the hearing with you if you make a stay application and show evidence that he/she is willing to purchase and has the funds to do so and to complete within a reasonable time. That's likely your only option at this very late stage.

 

To the other poster to whom some of this post is directed: I won't be responding to your posts any further as it is just derailing the OP's thread.

[dx100uk]

Thanks Lea

 

Dx

[tezzaa61]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

I ended up being evicted, as soon as I know what the property sold for and all the additional costs I've incurred I'll post a reply.

[AndyOrch]

Thanks for the update Tezzaa

[tezzaa61]

Hi, here's the breakdown from the house sale following repossession:

 

GROSS SALE AMOUNT £62,000.00

LESS ASSET MANAGER, SOLICITORS AND EPC FEES -£2,040.92

REDEMPTION MONIES RECVD FROM SOLICITOR £59,959.08

BALANCE ON ACCT BEFORE SALE -£51,034.12

SURPLUS ON ACCOUNT £8,924.96

SETTLEMENT OF 3rd Party EQUITY LOAN -£8,075.40

(@ 9.39% Value of Property (£86,000) Loan taken out August 2010 Property Valued at £80,000)

AMOUNT DUE £849.56 (I actually received a cheque for only £796.33!)

 

The house was put on the market for about £76K (may have been £74K or £78K not 100% sure). Anyways it sold for a lot less, £62K. The Nationwide kept reducing the price every 4 weeks or so by about 4K.

 

I was clobbered by the 3rd party Loan as they calculated what I owed them based on a valuation of £86,000! It was valued at £80,000 in 2010.

 

So, my three questions are:

1) Do I have any grounds to appeal the price the Nationwide sold it for? If so what do I do next?

2) Should I challenge the 3 Parties calculation of the valuation?

3) Should I do both?

 

Many Thanks in Advance,

 

 

T

[Ell-enn]

Hi, do you know if any other properties in the area sold for more during the time yours was for sale ?

[tezzaa61]

Hi, do you know if any other properties in the area sold for more during the time yours was for sale ?

 

I'm not sure, I'll try and find out.

[Ell-enn]

Ok, it would be good to find that out.

 

There is also a letter you can send to them asking for detailed information on how the sale was conducted. They should endeavour to get the best price possible to protect your interests.

 

I have affixed the letter for you to insert your details. You will need to send the statutory fee of £10.00 - use a postal order and keep the receipt safe. You should write on the back of the postal order your name, mortgage account no and the words "fee for statutory request only"

 

 

Send by recorded delivery - keep the post office postage receipt safe so you can check on Royalmail website a few days after posting to print of the signature receipt. Staple the signature receipt to a copy of the letter you sent and keep in a safe place (just in case they try to say they didn't receive it!)

[tezzaa61]

Thank you very much. I will get that sent off.

[tezzaa61]

Ok, it would be good to find that out.

 

There is also a letter you can send to them asking for detailed information on how the sale was conducted. They should endeavour to get the best price possible to protect your interests.

 

I have affixed the letter for you to insert your details. You will need to send the statutory fee of £10.00 - use a postal order and keep the receipt safe. You should write on the back of the postal order your name, mortgage account no and the words "fee for statutory request only"

 

 

Send by recorded delivery - keep the post office postage receipt safe so you can check on Royalmail website a few days after posting to print of the signature receipt. Staple the signature receipt to a copy of the letter you sent and keep in a safe place (just in case they try to say they didn't receive it!)

 

Hi, I've only got access to a printer at the library and the link to that document is blocked for some reason.

 

Can you either post another link or I could message you with my email and you could email me a copy, if that would be OK?

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

The link is indeed broken Tezza..I will report it for Ell-enn,s attention.

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

ah same name as one that's been used before and blocked when we got hacked

[tezzaa61]

The link is indeed broken Tezza..I will report it for Ell-enn,s attention.

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy, just tried it again but I still can't access it.

[AndyOrch]

I have reported it...I will give it a further nudge Tez

[Ell-enn]

Hi, I have copied the text of the letter below

 

 

.....................................................................................................................................Your Address

 

 

By recorded delivery

 

 

Date

 

 

Lender’s address

 

 

 

 

 

 

Subject access request

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:

 

Specific details of the handling of the marketing and sale of the property after possession:

 

 

 

1. Details of the agent(s) responsible for marketing the property, a list of the offers received and how they were reviewed
   
2. Copies of any newspaper or internet advertisements relating to the sale of the property.
   
3. Copies of the valuations received on the property (minimum of two is required under the CML rules).
   
4. Selling agent’s report on activity and any reports relating to visits to the property to ensure security of the property.
   
5. If the property was sold under value please provide reports and supporting evidence to prove that the best offer was obtained.
   
6. If the property was sold at auction, please provide reports to support the decision to sell at auction.
   
7. Specific details of the fees or charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees or charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees or charges were levied.
   8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.
   9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.
   
   I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.
   
   
   Yours faithfully,
    
   
   
   XXXXXX
   
   
   
   
   Enc. Statutory fee £10 – postal order number :
   
   
   

[Ell-enn]

Please refer to post 42 for posting and postal order instructions.