Unfair Judgement? - about a boundary dispute with a neighbour

[ThedaBara]

What does the court paperwork say about interest being added to the charging order ? If it wasn't mentioned, then I would have thought that it couldn't be applied arbitrarily ?

 

Hmmm… I can't find anything amongst the paperwork about interest… perhaps it is automatically a feature of the CO..

 

TB

[citizenB]

Hmmm… I can't find anything amongst the paperwork about interest… perhaps it is automatically a feature of the CO..

 

TB

 

I thought it had to be specifically mentioned in the Order ?

 

I have left a message for others on the site team - to see if they know.

[ThedaBara]

I thought it had to be specifically mentioned in the Order ?

 

I have left a message for others on the site team - to see if they know.

 

Many thanks!! I made an application to set aside the CO due to maladministration by the court when they failed to issue my defence and counterclaim, then failed to inform me of this prior to the hearing, leaving the judge unable to deal with the issues as he was required to do before making the CO final….so any interest on the charge could be academic if the set aside is granted….

 

Served the application 8 weeks ago and haven't received an acknowledgement or anything… do you know if this is normal procedure? It's quite complicated, so I suppose the decision whether to allow or refuse the set aside might take some time, but I find it very worrying that the court has not updated me. I know they have received the documents. Ironically, part of my complaint about the court is its failure to correspond with me…and it wrote back with an apology following an investigation, but now everything has gone quiet again.

 

TB

[ThedaBara]

Nothing unusual.

 

The worry is that the court has responded and that I have not received it, for whatever reason, (usually that the postman delivers out stuff to the neighbour who has a very similar address)…if the court requires a response or I am required to do something within a time frame, I will miss the deadline… 8 weeks feels like a lifetime, but I find it difficult speaking on the phone due to my deafness and they don't answer my emails… TB

[unclebulgaria67]

Many thanks!! I made an application to set aside the CO due to maladministration by the court when they failed to issue my defence and counterclaim, then failed to inform me of this prior to the hearing, leaving the judge unable to deal with the issues as he was required to do before making the CO final….so any interest on the charge could be academic if the set aside is granted….

 

Served the application 8 weeks ago and haven't received an acknowledgement or anything… do you know if this is normal procedure? It's quite complicated, so I suppose the decision whether to allow or refuse the set aside might take some time, but I find it very worrying that the court has not updated me. I know they have received the documents. Ironically, part of my complaint about the court is its failure to correspond with me…and it wrote back with an apology following an investigation, but now everything has gone quiet again.

 

TB

 

They are probably sat on it or say it has gone missing in the system. This rings bells with Wendyboats, where the courts seem to lose documents on several occasions without much of an apology. Seems very convenient that court files which are difficult for them are slow to process or go missing.

 

8 weeks seems too long. Surely an acknowledgement confirming who has your case would be issued as a minimum. Think i would be making a complaint with whoever is responsible for the court you are dealing with.

[citizenB]

Interest

 

If a creditor has got a CCJ against you, they may be able to add extra interest once a charging order is made.

 

For some types of debt, the law allows interest to be added onto CCJs separately from the terms and conditions of the agreement. This is known as ‘statutory interest’ and it runs at a standard rate.

For some debts, there is a clause in the agreement which allows further interest to be added to the debt after the creditor has got a CCJ. This is known as ‘contractual interest’.

Statutory interest cannot be added to a CCJ if:

 

the debt is for an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act (most ordinary credit agreements, including bank overdrafts); or

the debt is less than £5,000 in total, even if it is not covered by the Consumer Credit Act.

If:

 

an agreement allows contractual interest to be added after a CCJ is made; and

the CCJ was made on or after 1 October 2008;

the creditor has to follow certain steps, such as sending you a proper notice, before the contractual interest can be added. Contractual interest builds up separately to the judgment and will not be secured by the charging order.

 

Does this help ?

[ThedaBara]

They are probably sat on it or say it has gone missing in the system. This rings bells with Wendyboats, where the courts seem to lose documents on several occasions without much of an apology. Seems very convenient that court files which are difficult for them are slow to process or go missing.

 

8 weeks seems too long. Surely an acknowledgement confirming who has your case would be issued as a minimum. Think i would be making a complaint with whoever is responsible for the court you are dealing with.

 

All I ever do is make complaints to the court… they have seriously messed up in the past and I am losing my mind as this case is almost 5 years old… WendyBoats and I are going to collaborate on a book when this is all over… if we don't die of stress first. TB

[ThedaBara]

Does this help ?

 

 

Thanks… it's the 'proper notice' bit that's throwing me…

 

I don't recall being sent any notification, specify to interest, apart from when they twice sent a letter threatening an OFS, where they reminded me that interest was being added…

 

*Confused*

 

TB

[ThedaBara]

For anyone following… I'm STILL waiting!! TB

[ThedaBara]

Hmmm… Looking through my files again...ICO was accompanied by an unsigned Statement of Truth… These little things really bug me as I know for a fact if it was me, a LIP, who made the same mistake, the court would have picked up on it… TB

[unclebulgaria67]

Have you enquired with Ministry of Justice about the complaints process against courts ? Surely there is an official process which you need to enter into. There must be officials in the MoJ who look into complaints and respond to people.

[ThedaBara]

Have you enquired with Ministry of Justice about the complaints process against courts ? Surely there is an official process which you need to enter into. There must be officials in the MoJ who look into complaints and respond to people.

 

Yes… MOJ told me I must complain first to the court… I've initiated a complaint and have since written to them several times but they just don't bother get back to me.

 

Just waiting to see if set aside is allowed… it's been nearly three months now!

 

It's so hard as a LIP… If you're not legally trained, CPR can be very confusing. So unfair that people with no money have to struggle for justice. Imagine if I needed brain surgery and I couldn't afford to pay for it and had to look up the correct procedure online and perform it myself….Pfffttt!!!

 

All so unecessary, too, as the other side made what should have been a fatal mistake prior to the trial… the 'learned' judge chose to ignore it, though…

 

I can't wait until this is all over and I can sleep at night. TB

[ThedaBara]

For anyone who has been following this thread and wondering where we are at;

 

Court has cocked up yet again. Interesting to note that their apology is marked "Without prejudice"… TB

 

 

Without prejudice

 

Good Morning Mrs *****

 

Further to my colleagues reply to you in this matter dated the 16th February 2016, His Honour Judge ********* has asked me to email you to apologise for the oversight in this matter.

 

His Honour had reviewed the file in January 2016 and gave the attached directions. Unfortunately the file, on return to this office, was filed away rather than the order being drawn. Our email of the 16th February 2016 was therefore incorrect. I am sorry this has happened.

 

For all future correspondence/emails please mark it clearly that it must be for the attention of either **** *****/******* **********

Regards.

 

********* ***********

Acting Team Leader
Civil Section
County Court at ***********

"I am not authorised to bind the Ministry of Justice contractually, nor to make representations or other statements which may bind the Department in any way via electronic means"*

 

 

 

From: ******* ********

16 Feb

 

 

Good afternoon

 

Further to your email of 11 February 2016 I write to advise that the matter is still with the Judge for consideration.

 

Regards

 

Civil Section

********** County Court

 

I am not authorised to bind the Ministry of Justice contractually, nor to make representations or other statements which may bind the Ministry of Justice in any way via electronic means".

 

 

From:******** *******

Sent:*11 February 2016 08:33

To:******* *County, Enquiries

Subject:*Ref: *******

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

Would you please provide an update in relation to the above.

 

Application to set aside was filed with the Court on 9th December 2015.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

******* ******

[BazzaS]

For anyone who has been following this thread and wondering where we are at;

 

Court has cocked up yet again. Interesting to note that their apology is marked "Without prejudice"… TB

 

 

Without prejudice

 

Good Morning Mrs *****

 

Further to my colleagues reply to you in this matter dated the 16th February 2016, His Honour Judge ********* has asked me to email you to apologise for the oversight in this matter.

 

His Honour had reviewed the file in January 2016 and gave the attached directions. Unfortunately the file, on return to this office, was filed away rather than the order being drawn. Our email of the 16th February 2016 was therefore incorrect. I am sorry this has happened.

 

For all future correspondence/emails please mark it clearly that it must be for the attention of either **** *****/******* **********

Regards.

 

********* ***********

Acting Team Leader
Civil Section
County Court at ***********

"I am not authorised to bind the Ministry of Justice contractually, nor to make representations or other statements which may bind the Department in any way via electronic means"*

 

 

 

From: ******* ********

16 Feb

 

 

Good afternoon

 

Further to your email of 11 February 2016 I write to advise that the matter is still with the Judge for consideration.

 

Regards

 

Civil Section

********** County Court

 

I am not authorised to bind the Ministry of Justice contractually, nor to make representations or other statements which may bind the Ministry of Justice in any way via electronic means".

 

 

From:******** *******

Sent:*11 February 2016 08:33

To:******* *County, Enquiries

Subject:*Ref: *******

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

Would you please provide an update in relation to the above.

 

Application to set aside was filed with the Court on 9th December 2015.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

******* ******

 

What were the attached directions?

 

Regarding "without prejudice", I'd be tempted to reply along the lines of:

Is this completely without prejudice, in which case how am I to rely on it at all?

or is it "without prejudice, save as to costs"?

[legalistic]

Thedabara complaints relating to administrative matters need Form Ex 343 and Ex343a and are sent to the court itself. If unsuccessful one can appeal to the MoJ. Compensation can be claimed for any losses such as court fees or costs. It does not sound, though, as if you have had any losses. HMCTS sometimes offers an ex gratia payment of £250. I believe this is because compensation proper, in these straitened times, needs to be approved by the Treasury.

[ThedaBara]

What were the attached directions?

 

Regarding "without prejudice", I'd be tempted to reply along the lines of:

Is this completely without prejudice, in which case how am I to rely on it at all?

or is it "without prejudice, save as to costs"?

 

Hi Bazza… I think they've now made so many mistakes that they are covering themselves in case I make a formal complaint to MOJ… I'm guessing I can't use their apology as evidence if I go down that route.. it's pretty weird… I've never had correspondence from court staff marked in this way before.

 

I made a set aside application early in December last year. The directions should have been served on me in January, but didn't turn up until the court sent it via email on 9 March, and then only after I wrote asking them why it was taking so long!

 

So… there is a hearing in 3 months, to consider the set aside, and whether I may appeal the Judgement Order, with the appeal to follow immediately if permission is granted. Also states they will possibly consider my claim for equitable set off, and whether and on what terms it should proceed, with the other side having to provide a skeleton argument as he has provided no defence to my counterclaim yet.

 

Seems like an awful lot to decide on, given they are only allowing half a day for the hearing… TB

 

Thedabara complaints relating to administrative matters need Form Ex 343 and Ex343a and are sent to the court itself. If unsuccessful one can appeal to the MoJ. Compensation can be claimed for any losses such as court fees or costs. It does not sound, though, as if you have had any losses. HMCTS sometimes offers an ex gratia payment of £250. I believe this is because compensation proper, in these straitened times, needs to be approved by the Treasury.

 

 

Hi Legalistic… Thanks for the advice...I am saving the full dossier of cock ups until after the hearing, as there may be even more to complain about by then… No losses? I stand to lose my home due to their errors! :-xTB

[sam1888]

What happened in your case? ..

.. I am dealing with a neighbour issue too and they have dug in their heels.

 

 

I am weighing up whether to instruct or lawyer instead of trying to do this myself.

 

 

All that you wrote ThedaBara is a huge amount of research and work, I'd not really know enough about it. (To do with encroachment on my property and damage to plants (to include labour) where the neighbour sprayed a whole side of my plants with black fence paint.

 

Can anyone suggest, is it really best me even trying on my own to resolve this, the neighbour has a lawyer and i feel to add weight to my words I may need one too, but of course they are costly.

[stu007]

Hi sam1888

 

Can appreciate why you asked this but it would be better if you could start your own thread and give us a breakdown of your own issue.

 

https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/land-registry

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/problems-where-you-live/neighbour-disputes/

 

This link depending on your property may be of interest: http://www.rics.org/uk/

 

http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/consumer-guides/boundary-disputes-guide/

Edited December 2, 2016 by stu007

[sam1888]

Hi sam1888

 

Can appreciate why you asked this but it would be better if you could start your own thread and give us a breakdown of your own issue.

 

https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/land-registry

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/problems-where-you-live/neighbour-disputes/

 

This link depending on your property may be of interest: http://www.rics.org/uk/

 

http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/consumer-guides/boundary-disputes-guide/

 

ok will do.

[ThedaBara]

Oops! Update... still buggering on.

 

The set aside was struck out... something about me failing to ask permission of the court to do something or another...blah blah... a minor procedural error for a LIP, but no matter, as we are expected to know the rules...

 

Fast forward; I made a fresh claim in the High Court a year ago.

Defendant failed to acknowledge.. or at least, if he did, the court didn't let me know.

 

I'm wondering if I should go back to the court and try and find out exactly what went on...

 

The claim was served in July. I received notice of acting from his solicitor on 1st September, and the defence was filed and served on the 8th September. (I believe the AOS was filed retrospectively at the same time as the defence... I have never seen it).

 

It's all a bit of a muddle, but now there has been disclosure and I have seen some new documents which show that the court actually entered a default judgement against the defendant for failure to acknowledge, but his lawyers argued it, saying the claim was acknowledged in time, and it seems to have been overturned... all this without my knowledge and I'm thinking something odd is going on...

 

TB

[Ganymede]

Oops! Update... still buggering on.

 

The set aside was struck out... something about me failing to ask permission of the court to do something or another...blah blah... a minor procedural error for a LIP, but no matter, as we are expected to know the rules...

 

Fast forward; I made a fresh claim in the High Court a year ago.

Defendant failed to acknowledge.. or at least, if he did, the court didn't let me know.

 

I'm wondering if I should go back to the court and try and find out exactly what went on...

 

The claim was served in July. I received notice of acting from his solicitor on 1st September, and the defence was filed and served on the 8th September. (I believe the AOS was filed retrospectively at the same time as the defence... I have never seen it).

 

It's all a bit of a muddle, but now there has been disclosure and I have seen some new documents which show that the court actually entered a default judgement against the defendant for failure to acknowledge, but his lawyers argued it, saying the claim was acknowledged in time, and it seems to have been overturned... all this without my knowledge and I'm thinking something odd is going on...

 

TB

 

It's been almost a year. Just focus on going forward and progressing your claim rather than worrying about what happened 11 months ago.

[ThedaBara]

Because the rules are only for LIPs and not for those who should know better, but fail to comply and get away with it every time. TB