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dipsydave75

cabot/Mortimer claimform - Welcome Finance loan 'debt'

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I am also posting the same story on other forums

 

this is not to undermine anyone on any of these in any way,

but to gauge different options and ideas that people may have when dealing with this.

It could be there is stuff that may help others out across all pages

and that can only be a good thing for those of us consumers being roally shafted by the establishment!!!

 

2007 with a growing family I took out a car loan with Welcome Finance (BIG mistake, I know. Never again!)

 

the loan was adjusted late 2008 to reduce the payment amount and supposedly the PPI and insurances were cancelled as mis-sold. 2012

 

it was my belief that I was paying over the odds for a car that was vastly overinflated price,

that the PPI etc although cancelled the costs were not commuted as I was expected to pay almost 12k for a car worth 4500 at purchase.

so account was placed into dispute. Dispute was ignored,

 

come march 2013 account was registered default,

court threats and a CPR letter was sent requesting all documentation in march 2013.

 

april, may 2013 further correspondence was received clearly the dispute was ignored

and so was the CPR until August when the CPR was acknowledged.

Nothing!

 

at some point the account was sold to Lowells,

Then Cabot, Marlin, back to Cabot but nothing was ever actioned and nothing was posted out that warranted action.

 

As the account was in an ignored legal dispute situation but still had been registered as default and sold to 3rd parties this is a monumental breach!

 

Finally 14/07/15 I received a letter from Cabot the account was being referred to Mortimer Clark.

Same day, but postmark 15/07/15 I received a letter from Mortimer Clark stating they were instructed to take court proceedings

(Nothing in the letter states clearly this is a LBA) and I was to contact them.

The letters appear below

 

Mortimer clark letter

 

so I initially knocked up this response

 

removed fotl rubbish letter - dx

 

oh!.... was it not much better then, got me worried now

 

please ignore spacing and syntax mistakes, this was a draft.

 

Following advice on xxxxxxxx I followed this letter instead

 

 

removed - dx Understood

 

posted Friday July 31st and signed for Monday 3rd August by Mortimer Clark

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ok well time to forget all that.

claimform has arrived you need to deal with it.

 

appears to me they'll never have a signed agreement as the one they'll get

[or you will via the CCA request you must send]

will be signed by welcome staff as they did a re-write for you

 

std game with welcome at that time .

 

can you fill this link in please

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-December-2014**

and post the answers back here

 

as for those other website you mention but I've removed

if you want a CCJ then follow the advice there and don't waste CAG's members time.

 

i'll let our successes forum and our welcome finance forum speak for themselves

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?190-DCA-Legal-Successes

 

Following advice on I followed this letter instead

 

posted Friday July 31st and signed for Monday 3rd August by Mortimer Clark

 

waste of a stamp

drop the freeman of the land rubbish

else you'll get a CCJ by default

 

your call.

 

please respect our rules

do not post other sites templates or letter

nor web addresses

 

give us the info we need

 

and we'll get you sorted.

 

thank you

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Today Court papers have been received from CCBC Northampton issued on 3rd August! a cynic could make a comparison!

 

usual 14 days plus to acknowledge service

 

POC - By an agreement between Welcome Finance (WL CF) and the defendant on or around 17/10/2008 (The Agreement) WLCF agreed to loan the defendant monies. The Defendant did not pay the instalments as they fell due and the agreement was terminated. the agreement was assigned to the claimant. The claimant therefore claims XXXXX

 

Chris Chapman Solicitor

 

now,

I believe my defence lies with the fact the account contains UTCCR penalties, PPI, Shortfall and warranty insurances etc which being disputed invalidated not only the original debt amount, but also the subsequent default,

 

the ignorance of the dispute and failure to respond to the original CPR (I still retain evidence of posting, but that letter also acknowledges that a default has been served even tho it is clearly in dispute)

 

the selling on of the debt,

the failure of the third party to investigate the integrity of the debt

(Acting in good faith of the client is NOT a valid defence) is a whole heap of abuse of processes,

and the accuracy of the amount claimed is therefore inaccurate and invalid.

 

I have asked for strict proof that the debt exists asper my letter above.

 

so, what I am looking for is how I should take this now the court papers have been issued?

 

currently without no evidentiary documentation I cannot confirm or deny the existence of the debt and nor can I provide any defence whatsoever. I intend to defend al of the claim and will acknowledge within the required time scale.

 

waste of a stamp

drop the freeman of the land rubbish

else you'll get a CCJ by default

your call.

dx

 

so you think this might have just been a wrong direction to take?

 

ok well time to forget all that.

claimform has arrived you need to deal with it.

appears to me they'll never have a signed agreement as the one they'll get

[or you will via the CCA request you must send]

will be signed by welcome staff as they did a re-write for you

std game with welcome at that time .

can you fill this link in please

and post the answers back here

as for those other website you mention but I've removed

if you want a CCJ then follow the advice there and don't waste CAG's members time.

i'll let our successes forum and our welcome finance forum speak for themselves

 

Thanks.

 

interesting, which I wanted to get ideas and opinions from other people.

I want to do this right, and while not wanting to disrespect anyone elses ideas or advice I want to make sure I get this right. Believe me, I don't intend to waste anyones time!!!

 

my concern now is have I fracked this one up?

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not sweat

they'll simply bin those letters

 

can we have the full questions and your answer to:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-December-2014

 

get moving

 

all these silly letters are wasting your available time

 

dx

 

Mortimer clark letter

 

letters need to be uploaded in PDF format please

follow the upload clickme guide

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Name of the Claimant ? CABOT

Date of issue – 3rd August 2015

 

 

Defence by 5th September [ edit - 33 days - by 4pm Friday 4th sept whereby day ONE is the date on the claimform] ah, thanks!!!

 

What is the claim for

 

 

1. By an agreement between Welcome Finance (WL CF) and the defendant on or around 17/10/2008 (The Agreement) WLCF agreed to loan the defendant monies.

The Defendant did not pay the instalments as they fell due and the agreement was terminated.

the agreement was assigned to the claimant.

 

 

The claimant therefore claims XXXXX

 

What is the value of the claim? 7k

Loan

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? originally before, renegotiated 10/2008

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor

or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. - Cabot Financial

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? unknown

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? yes,

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? no

 

Why did you cease payments? dispute, bekieved amount owed was excessively high and contained PPI and UTCCR penalties

 

What was the date of your last payment? unknown 2012

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? yes

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor

and make any attempt to enter into a debt managementicon plan? CPR letter acknowleged but ignored. no documentation was received

 

If you have not already done so

– send a CCA Requesticon to the claimant for a copy of your agreement

- does this differ to the letter I already posted? if so in what way - just so I understand the differences

 

Would my original planned letter have been a better option?

 

hope that helps

Edited by dipsydave75

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great thanks for that

can you pdf those mortimer repiles you posted whilst I dissect the info you've posted.

 

 

 

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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thank you.

 

note the defence date was wrong.

 

go ack the claim on MCOL

defend all

leave juris unticked.

 

your defence will most probably be the holding / no paperwork one

widely available here

but you need to set the wheels in motion first

 

sent the CLAIMANT a CCA request

don't sign anything

leave the PO blank.

 

get a CPR 31:14 running to mortimers

again don't sign anything.

cpr is in the legal section of our library.

 

pdf...that is std threat-o-gram from mortimer

 

to put it bluntly

forget everything you have done/sent to date

totally worthless and wil be binned

 

just to be clear on the run up to this

have been sending them various bits of freeman twaddle to date

hence they've issued the claim as they can see you'd be a walk in the park if you followed that rubbish

or have you been quiet until the claimform arrived.

 

I suspect the former:lol:

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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for clarification the claimant is cabot, correct?

 

will get them cracked off tomorrow, better head to bed, got a rules exam tomorrow at work!

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yes yes

 

 

get it Ack'd and get those letters running tomorrow

 

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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After reading quite a few welcome threads i have come across a discrepancy

 

I see Cabot have the claimant as Welcome CF. I take it that is Welcome Consumer Finance?

 

Has there ever been a Welcome Consumer Finance??

 

I was under the impression it has always been Welcome Financial Services Ltd.

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to update.

 

Originally I followed a different CPR letter which Mortimer Clark received on 3rd August 2015 which asked for the following

 

Therefore, under the provisions of Practice Direction - Pre Action Conduct - Annex A Section 4.2 (7) I request the following documentary proof of your Clients assertions of a Legal Obligation, to be provided to me within 40 days of the post marked date of this letter.

 

I. Pursuant to s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974) copy of the Original Signed Consumer Credit Agreement, along with a copy of the original Terms & Conditions and any and all subsequent changes in said Terms & Conditions.

II. Statements of the Account referred to, including details of all payments made and calculation of how interest was charged against each item, leading to the Alleged Debt of £xxxxx.

III. Also, as this is an Alleged Debt, I believe Default Charges may have been applied to the Account and as such may be unlawful under the Unfair Consumer Contract Terms Regulations 1999, therefore, I would request details of each and every Default Charge applied to the Account (i.e. if the charge was for ‘Administration’ what Administration was undertaken to support the Default Charge) along with details of any Interest Charged against each Default Charge applied.

IV. A copy of the Default Notice from the original owners of the Alleged Debt and Certified Copies of how this was served upon me.

V. A copy of the Legal Assignment of the Agreement, including a copy of the Deed of Assignment and / or Deed of Tripartite Novation.

VI. A copy of how I was served with the Alleged Legal Assignment.

VII. A copy of the Alleged Notice of Assignment sent by the original creditor to the Defendant and again how this was Served upon me.

 

based on the letter originally sent, I have received this response from Mortimer Clarke, and I am quite intrigued by the response I have received.

 

Response from Mortimer Clark, dated 4th August 2015

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load of waffle.

 

 

but that's what you get by sending a non compliant cpr..

 

 

looks FOTL based to me.


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Corrected in error but if the account has been assigned to Cabot then all rights and duties of the original creditor go with it. Cabot will be responsible for any PPI reclaim as that will be part of the agreement assigned.

 

Where did this "Novation" come from???

 

It has nothing to do with the transfer of asset's in debt collection. That is done under the Law of property Act. The original creditor does not need your permission to assign the account to another creditor such as Cabot

 

Do not wish to sound judgmental but i do hope you have not been looking at these Freeman of the land or get out of debt free sites??

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so all of post 17 was completed

CCA request sent?

AOS done?

 

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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on the first page I have highlighted the response where they state cabot have been assigned the benefit but not the buredon, and therefore have to approach Welcome Finance.

 

this to me is the biggest load of tosh I have ever read.

 

How can an apparent disputed amount possibly be assigned to someone else for their benefit while the responsibility remains with the original creditor.

 

Surely any assignment that is absolute includes the responsibility as well as the liability?

 

if not then are they expecting me to reclaim the money off welcome to then pay them while they take me to the cleaners in court?

 

How can a judge award this as a valid case?

 

if the account has been assigned to Cabot then all rights and duties of the original creditor go with it. Cabot will be responsible for any PPI reclaim as that will be part of the agreement assigned.

 

 

yet Mortimer Clark are trying to say that they have nothing to do with it and to contact Welcome finance!

 

 

It has nothing to do with the transfer of asset's in debt collection. That is done under the Law of property Act. The original creditor does not need your permission to assign the account to another creditor such as Cabot

 

Do not wish to sound judgmental but i do hope you have not been looking at these Freeman of the land or get out of debt free sites??

 

i did originally, but wasn't planning on going down the route of "3 letters billing and estoppel" route which seemed way too far fetched to me.

 

 

The CPR appeared to be similar to others I had seen and used on a formerly well used action site and had already been posted before I joined this site,

 

 

however the SAR went out yesterday and looking at this response I'm wondering if they have dug themselves a hole that using your CPR will help dig deeper.

 

so for understanding, can you guys explain to me what the freeman of the land stuff is?

don't want to sound thick, just want to understand it so I can keep away!

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the site where you got the three letter trick from.

 

 

have you sent a CCA request to the claimant?

 

 

have you ack'd the claim on MCOL?

 

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Correction! CCA was sent yesterday

 

will acknowledge the claim once I get kids tea sorted. suffice to say yes, I intend to defend all of the claim!

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CCA request?


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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if the account has been assigned to Cabot then all rights and duties of the original creditor go with it. Cabot will be responsible for any PPI reclaim as that will be part of the agreement assigned.

 

 

yet Mortimer Clark are trying to say that they have nothing to do with it and to contact Welcome finance!

 

I meant CCA! oops!!!

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good simply ignore their waffle and your FMOTL waffle

utter codswallop and guaranteed to get you a CCJ if you follow it

 

please go read up HERE about things

and not stupid FOTL sites

 

the CCA request MUST be complied with. end of!

 

anything else is a mere 'request' that can be ignored.

 

dx

 

 

 

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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like I said, while some of the advice appeared credible and with success, some of the stuff on there seemed too far fetched!

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as long as you sent the claimant our CCA request

as is

it will negate the FOTL waffle and their reply indicating they wish to play games

as they can see you are [were] an easy win if you were to continue to follow that route.

 

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Have received a response from Cabot regarding CCA request.

 

The PO's have been returned, and the letter asks me to endorse the PO's as they have not been completed with the payee details. Once this is done they willprocess my request.

 

The payee bit has already been starred out by the Post Office meaning the payee bit doesnt need filling in. So surely all this is doing is stalling for time?

 

Should i now fill in the PO or send them back with ancovering letter advising them the PO doesnt need filling in?

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usual delaying tactics.


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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