Paul V's Abbey

[firefly1975]

Hi,

 

Iv'e spent the last few days reading through this great site and thank you all for this information.

 

 

I am looking make a claim to abbey, though i have no idea how much for as I dont have the statements and barring a few charges dotted around over the last year or so the majority of my charges were around two years ago, So i cannot estimate the amount.

 

I have recently opened a new account with another bank in case abbey close mine. ( I havent transfererd my wages or dd's etc as i cannot afford to pay my overdraft or do i really wish to change banks until i am in a better position, so as to start clean and fresh elsewhere)

 

I am about to send off my SAR letter (template from this site) to find the figure i need to request.

 

But, reading through some of you're threads i have become somewhat worried that when i send off my letter, Abbey will stop my overdraft and harrass me.

 

This is something i cannot afford and could force me not to pursue this claim... Even if i am to get the money back later, I'm not sure i can risk putting myself in that position at this time.

 

Are they likely to stop my overdraft or ask for it to be paid off?

If so at what stage would they do this? The SAR letter? the initial request? or later?

 

 

I am also a little unsure whether i can claim for all charges or certaiin charges only?

 

I apologise if these questions have allready been answered but I have spent several days looking through the site and havent found a definate answer... Theres so much info here i may have missed something.

 

Please lend a little assistance,

 

Thank you for your time

 

Best regards, Paul

 

Cheers

[lknox]

Hi Paul

 

I speak from my own experience with Abbey. My first claim was settled in Sept, and it's only now that they have withdrawn my overdraft, the account remains open, although there is no money going in or out.

 

I opened and started using a new bank account as soon as I began my claim with Abbey. I also transferred my salary and all my DDs to the new account immediately.

 

After I sent my prelim letter, I received the standard response letter which threatened that my account could be closed. However it hasn't happened yet, and I started my claim in June.

 

Don't let the threat of closure put you off. Once your account is in dispute, my understanding is that they can't make you pay back your overdraft. Might be worth reading around to see how others have been affected.

 

Start your claim!

[Femstar]

Hi Guys,

 

I just received my first reply from Abbey after sending SAR.

 

They acknowledged receipt of my letter and promised to send what they have on the system i.e. last 14months which should arrive within 5-7 working days.

 

Can any one advise me what the following paragraph means( are they refusing or what?) so i know whether to send the 'Microfiche letter' by Alanfromderby.

 

'Any previous transactions have been archived onto microfiche and it is not possible to provide you with a computer print out of this information. However, we have made arrangements to send you a list of transactions between 2000 and 2005, under seperate cover'

 

They later go on about being unable to send 'manual interventions' because it is not computer drivend and it is not information they or the customer usually needs.

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

D'Femstar

[Femstar]

Hi Guys,

 

I just received my first reply from Abbey after sending SAR.

 

They acknowledged receipt of my letter and promised to send what they have on the system i.e. last 14months which should arrive within 5-7 working days.

 

Can any one advise me what the following paragraph means( are they refusing or what?) so i know whether to send the 'Microfiche letter' by Alanfromderby.

 

'Any previous transactions have been archived onto microfiche and it is not possible to provide you with a computer print out of this information. However, we have made arrangements to send you a list of transactions between 2000 and 2005, under seperate cover'

 

They later go on about being unable to send 'manual interventions' because it is not computer drivend and it is not information they or the customer usually needs.

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

D'Femstar

[firefly1975]

Iknox,

 

Thank you very much, that has eased my mind somewhat.

Knowing that they didnt withdraw your overdraft til later on is assuring as i hope to clear the overdraft enough to allow me to transfer my balance to the new account within the next 2 months which should allow time to spare for the claim to really get going.

 

Thanks again.

 

Couple of questions... When i log into abbey it says i can phone them and request statements. Should i try this or send off the SAR letter?

 

Also can you confirm whether its all charges i claim for or only certain ones?

 

Cheers,

 

Paul

[lknox]

You really need to send off the SAR, this puts you on a legal footing from the word go.

Otherwise they will take forever to send out your statements, and charge you a fiver for each.

With the SAR they will still delay as much as poss, but are legally bound to provide the info within the 40 day period and all for a tenner which you claim back at a later stage.

 

As for charges, yes, claim for everything:

 

Failed Direct Debits

Bounced Cheques

Unauthorised overdraft charges.

 

hth

Laura

[firefly1975]

Cheers, I'll get the SAR in the post monday morning

 

Thanks for your help

[firefly1975]

Hi again,

 

Jus received 14 months of statements from abbey.

 

The letter aknowledged receipt of my cheque and said that the rest of my statements were on microfiche and they had arranged to send me a list of transactions for the remainder of the 6 years.

 

The letter does not say how long this will take... I assume this also falls within the original 40 day limit set out in the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) ??

 

As to manual interventions, it basically says that if there were any records of them are not kept... Is this correct?

 

Hopefully i'll get the statements soon and can progress with the next stage.

 

Thanks again for your help

 

Paul

[firefly1975]

Hi,

 

Finally received the remaining transactions list from abbey this morning.

 

I downloaded the Bank charges spreadsheet (complex one) and have spent the day inputing the last 6 years worth of charges... Eek.. jus shy of £4000.

 

I have also downloaded the preliminary letter (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/671-2-letter-preliminary-approach.html )

 

Just a couple of questions if you dont mind.

 

Firstly, when i entered the charges into the spreadsheet allthough when i highlight the individual cells it tells me the correct charge type in the type box at the top it does not display the charge type when normally viewing the spreadsheet.

The charge type is only listed when i switch to the page listing interest.

 

When sending my schedule does it matter if the print out only shows the date and charge amount without the description, or do i need to use a different spreadsheet, or do i just use the one with interest included ?

 

Also on the preliminary letter, I assume i leave the section about defaults out as i have no knowledge of a default on my account, only the information regarding there being no records of interventions on my account that abbey told me in their response to the SAR .

 

Lastly, The prelim letter in the templates section includes interest , but elsewhere on this site it says not to include interest at this stage... Which is correct ?

 

Thank you again.. You have all helped a great deal.

 

Paul

[firefly1975]

sorry, one more question :

 

when filling out the spreadsheet with my charges... Do i also add "interest charged whilst overdrawn" as well as the charges themselves or are they ok ?

 

thanks again

[firefly1975]

ok, I've now found on this site that i can indeed claim for interest whilst overdrawn.

 

But this now has me properly confused... The interest on real statements i have makes almost sense (though there are months with no actual charges but still have interest whilst overdrawn which i assume i still claim?)

 

But the statements from microfiche are confusing...

There are listed charges (generally after proper charges) that are listed as 'INT DEBIT' ... Is this the interest.. I assume it is as it is varying small amounts and generally comes after charges. As above these charges also on occasion appear in months where i didnt have any normal charges.

 

Please if anyone can answer the questions i've asked today(last 3 posts) it would be most appreciated as i'm really grinding to a halt now...

 

Cheers

[Mad Nick]

I'll have a go at your questions.

 

The 'INT DEBIT' you mention is a red herring - it's interest sure enough, but it is on the overall balance not just the charge. "interest charged whilst overdrawn" ditto. You're just looking for items marked CHG.

 

There are then two ways of calculating interest on the charges :

• Statutory interest which you don't claim until the Court stage = the charge multiplied by the number of days from the date of the charge until today times the daily equivalent of 8% per annum (ie 8%/365=0.00022p per day). Nice and simple.
  
• Contractual interest which you claim from the start. Still uses the charge and the number of days, but to calculate it accurately, the interest rate(s) you apply depends on your daily balance relative to your overdraft facility (if you have one). That's because Abbey charged about 28% while in unauthorised overdraft (that's why they applied the charge), then 16.9% once back within authorised overdraft, then 0% if (unlike me) the balance was positive. But it's tricky to separate out the effect of the charges on your balance from the effect of all your other transactions. Clearly, the more difficult the calculations, the more prone to error and/or challenge by the Bank.

Having said all that, I'm going down the contractual route because I feel strongly that they charged me those rates so why shouldn't I have that interest back as well. And most importantly, on the charges I'm claiming (£5K over 6 years), the difference between 8% Statutory and 16.9% contractual is about £2K, and if I went Statutory I wouldn't get any interest at all if the Bank tried to settle in full before the Court stage. But I've simplified my contractual interest calculation by just applying 16.9% across the board - I was only in unauthorised overdraft for short periods, so I'm not losing much by not applying 28% for the short periods (and I can argue it balances the few occasions my balance was positive).

 

Hope this helps. Regards, Mad Nick

[firefly1975]

Thanks Nick, though your post has left me even more confused.

 

In several places on this site it says you can use interest whilst overdrawn as if even a small amount of it came due to a charge the whole figure would be wrong... But then others, like yourself say you cant use.

The speadsheet and the prelim letter seem to ask for it... Im just completely confused now.

 

Maybe its time to call it a day on this

 

cheers

[Mad Nick]

OK. Suggest do it in stages. In this page,

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/182-6-interest-calculation-spreadsheets.html

download Vampiress' spreadsheet called :

England - Simple - Excel

Enter each charge and date of the charge. The charges are the amounts which are £XX.00 from your statements & microfiche.

The spreadsheet :

• totals the charges column; and
  
• for each charge calculates the Statutory interest at 8% per annum (ie 0.00022p per day) from the date of the charge until now; and
  
• totals the interest.

When you've got those two totals (charges & statutory interest) post again. To some extent, what you do next depends on how big the amounts are. Regards, Mad Nick.

[firefly1975]

hi Nick,

 

Charges = 3895.50

int at 8% = 1108.98

 

cheers

[Mad Nick]

Firefly, that was quick. Those are big enough numbers to make it worth having a go at calculating contractual interest. My guess would be that contractual interest would be 2-3 times bigger than the statutory interest (ie an extra £1-2K). Have a look at post #13 on my thread to see how I calculated it:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/49008-mad-nick-abbey.html

If you aren't comfortable with entering Excel formulas, PM me and I'll E-mail you my spreadsheet.

Two caveats :

• as my post says, I'm asking for reassurance myself about my calculation
  
• as I explained in my earlier reply to you, I only feel confident doing it this way because I was more or less always in authorised overdraft (apart from the short periods between them hitting me with a charge and me paying some money back in). If my balance had spent significant time in credit, then this calculation would over-estimate the interest. As it is, I'm just foregoing claiming the higher interest (c28%) for the periods of unauthorised overdraft.

[firefly1975]

I entered my charges into the spreadsheets from here yesterday, so allready had those figures.

 

I can see im gonna have to do some more reading on this interest stuff... at every turn there seems to be another option.

 

After spending several days reading as much of this forum as possible when i first sent off the sar, i thought i was sorted, but there just seems to be more and more to take into account with every step.

 

Whilst i have slight issues over getting my basics done, i'm basically happy with sending the prelim and lba (with a touch of help) but im allready at this early stage dreading the idea of court.

 

Anyway, cheers nick i will have a read through on this and make a decision and let you know asap... Is this something i need to figure out now (to be inc in prelim/lba) or is this to be left for the court stage?

 

Thanks a lot

[Mad Nick]

Is this (interest) something i need to figure out now (to be inc in prelim/lba) or is this to be left for the court stage?

 

If you decide to claim contractual interest, then it would be best to include it in your Prelim and definitely in your LBA. If you decide to go the Statutory interest route then no, you can wait until you submit your Court claim to refer to the Statutory interest.

 

All I'd say (rambling on again !) is :

• you can't rely on Statutory interest because Abbey might offer to settle your claim in full before the Court stage - you couldn't reasonably then introduce a new demand for 8% interest which a Judge might not award anyway; and
  
• Contractual interest is a lot of money, £2-3K in your case. They charged you interest, we should charge them. Just because it's difficult to calculate, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get it. In fact, I've decided to ask them in writing to calculate it for me : ie to calculate what my current balance would be if they had not levied the (unlawful) charges. If they decline (can't/won't), then they won't be in a very good position to argue the toss about it if/when I get to Court.

[firefly1975]

Ok, I need more time to consider the interest options but dont wish to delay any longer.

So I think i will send out the prelim with just charges for now... then when its time for the lba i will have made a decision and will either add contractual at that point or hold till the court process if i decide to go the statutory route.

 

Cheers Nick

[davenport5]

I used the advanced spreadsheet from Vampiress which is in:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/182-6-interest-calculation-spreadsheets.html

 

The three sheets that make up the spreadsheet seem to be very straight forward regarding the 2 types of interest.

 

The first sheet is called 'Notes' and it is where you input your name etc.

 

The second sheet is called 'Charges and Interest' and it is where you input your charges and interest charged while overdrawn.

 

The third sheet is called '8% interest' and it automatically takes the information from the second sheet and applies the 8% interest. This is only used if you get to court.

 

I just inputted all the data and printed the second sheet and sent it with with my PRELIM.

 

Hope this helps.

[firefly1975]

Hi again,

 

Today i received a reply to my prelim letter,

 

I take it, its a standard reply - "sorry you felt the need to complain... it will take 4 weeks to investigate... etc etc"

 

So, my 14 days runs out tomorrow and i intend to get my LBA in the post asap.

 

Looking at the LBA in the templates swection, that suggests they hadnt replied and makes no mention of their 4 weeks...

 

Could anyone direct me to another template or sugest any changes to the opening paragraph from the one here -

 

 

I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond to my letter of the [XXDATEXX]

template letter removed quote]

 

Thanks for your help

 

Paul

[firefly1975]

Cheers Karnevil,

 

Feel an idiot now, never thought of something so simple, had all these more complex pargraphs running through my mind... Need to slow down a bit.

 

Thanks

[firefly1975]

Hi again,

 

I sent my LBA on the 19th jan.

 

This morning (27th) i received a fairly standard looking letter from abbey, which being dated the 20th i presume to be a 2nd response to my prelim, rather than a respons to my LBA, offering me a GOGW of the owe so generous amount of £450.

 

I will now send my rejection of this settlement and inform them i will keep to the timetable set out in the LBA.

 

Now, do i need to send another copy of the schedule with the rejection letter and should this be updated to include the GOGW or just leave it as is for now?

 

Also on the rejection i shall put the date they have upto to comply... Is this the date, 14days after the day i sent LBA or from when they received it?

If from when they received it, how do i know... I sent the letter recorded, but royal mail's website doesnt show whether its been received or not.

 

 

Is this the correct letter to send? It says "rejection of settlement", But im not sure that the letter i received was a settlement offer... It basically says allthough their carges are correct they are refunding £450 as a GOGW... There doesnt seem to be any mention of settlement... so do i need adifferent letter or is this one ok?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/25716-rejection-settlement-offer.html

 

 

 

 

This is part of the letter i received:

 

I'm sorry you are unhappy with the charges and i understand you would like these refunded. Although the charges were correct, as a gesture of goodwill, I am happy to refund £450.Your account will be updated shortly to show this.

 

I appreciate your feelings on this matter but we are satisfied that the charges do not contravene the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. We also comply with the Office of Fair Trading, in dealing fairly and oenly with our customers.

 

Thanks again

 

Paul

[firefly1975]

Hi again. Latest update

 

 

After receiving the gogw, I sent a letter accepting part payment and clearly stating i will continue with my claim and would initiate court procedings if i am not reimbursed before the date outlined in my LBA.

 

Today i received a letter from a Mr. Marc Winder saying he's only just received details of my complaint and would investigate it, which would take 4 weeks...

 

Is he trying to wind me up or what?

 

Anyway the 14 days since sending my LBA are now up, so its time for the scary bit... Court action.

 

Firstly should i ignore this latest letter or reply to it ?

 

 

 

On to the important stuff :

 

I am confused as to whether to use mcol or goto my local court to file my claim. Some say onething others say the opposite.

I would rather do mcol as my local court is less accessible to me and would require me having afew hours off of work to go there, However i wish to use the best option... What do you all sugest?

 

 

I am also unsure as to what to do about the £450 gogw i was refunded.

where do i put this on the claim.

 

Can I put the full claim amount plus interest and then remove this from the total?

 

I dont see why i should lose out by removing charges (and thus interest) when they have given no indication of which charges these are that they refunded.

 

Also, many here have mentioned claiming 49 hours at £9.25 per hour for my time as costs. Where do i place this on the claim form or does this come in later?

 

Thanks again, any help much appreciated

 

Paul

[firefly1975]

anyone ?