Sold car, buyer wants to return it

[nomoremoney]

Hi there. I sold my car last week through a classified ad on eBay. Buyer came to have a look, I took her on a test drive, she went home, then messaged me later to say she wanted it and came and bought it.

 

Several hours later her and her boyfriend returned the car saying that the rear seat belts were not long enough to wrap around their maxi cosi car seats. They told me they had turned down several other cars for the same reason, I asked them why they didn't check, they said they forgot. I refused the refund, but did offer to buy them some adapters to which they refused.

 

They became very aggressive, blocked our driveway with their car, and threatened us with physical violence and implied they would come back and do damage to me and our property. I phoned the police, they left just before they arrived but I told the police the story and got a crime reference number.

 

Yesterday I got a very vague email saying I had failed to disclose information regarding the vehicles history and that eBay's fraud team would be in touch (they haven't been). I replied that I had been completely honest and that it was for the seat belt they wanted to return the car, and outlined all the above that had happened.

 

They replied again saying I failed to inform them of the cars history and didn't tell the truth. They said once they got home they tried to insure it and found out about this history, so came back to me expecting me to come clean. They never mentioned anything about the cars history it was all tears about the seat belts and how their kids seats cost £500 a piece so they couldn't change them.

 

I reply asking what history?

 

Today they said it has been a Cat D write off. They quote sale of goods act 1979 and innocent misrepresentation clause in the misdescriptions act. They still want to return the car for a refund.

 

Where do I stand? How can I find out if it really was a Cat D and what the damage was? Surely if they care about this sort of thing they should have done a HPI check before they bought it? I have not told them any lies. It seems to me they are trying to think of new problems so that they can get out of buying the car. If there is a problem I guess I feel bad for them, but not after the way they have behaved. The car is sound, low mileage and as far as I'm concerned in perfect working order, minus an exhaust rattle I mentioned in the description.

 

They have been very aggressive and threatening in person, so much so that we have just installed CCTV as every time we come home we expect to have the windows smashed. On paper of course they seem to be writing very tactfully.

 

Thanks for reading this far, I wanted to be thorough. Please advise me where I stand.

 

Many thanks

[oddjobbob]

If it was a private sale, then Cat D is for them to find out not for you to declare.

 

 

If its a trade sale the reverse applies.

 

 

However if it really IS a Cat D write off (HPI it yourself, don't take their word for it) , I would give them their money back out of good will.

 

 

The seat belt matter is immaterial, they should have checked, tough.

[renegadeimp]

Regarding the threats, you REALLY should call the police asap. It really sounds like a case of buyers remorse, but they refuse to accept that. And 500 per child seat? That isnt your problem, its theirs. Plenty of good seats in argos for £60

[nomoremoney]

Thanks I will do a HPI. If it is, can I find out more information such as what the damage was?

 

It was a personal sale. I can't physically give them their money back even if I wanted to as we have already purchased a new car and other things with the cash. They should have told us about the cat d when they came back the day they bought it, not 4 days later. I think from the way their emails were worded they were trying to entrap me into saying I knew about the cat d.

 

My own research backs up what you say. But this misdescriptions act is worrying me, can only find limited information.

 

Re the threats I did call the police. They offered to go and see them but I said leave it in case it makes things worse. I have a crime reference number.

[nomoremoney]

Ok so the HPI shows it was indeed a Cat D in Feb last year. I bought it in August. Looks like I was conned too. Can I find out more information? They are trying to make out I was dishonest about it. Does it even matter if I knew or not?

[renegadeimp]

If it was a private sale, they are completely out of luck. Especially if all your information here is accurate. Proof of the fact they know it, is that they are threatening and intimidating you.

[nomoremoney]

What about this misdescription act they are quoting? They reckon their solicitor is issuing proceedings under that and I'll be getting a summons.

[oddjobbob]

What about this misdescription act they are quoting? They reckon their solicitor is issuing proceedings under that and I'll be getting a summons.

 

 

No. let them get on with it. the misdescription does NOT apply unless you expresslylied in the ad - eg 72000 miles and its done 100000.

 

 

Not mentioning Cat D is not the same as lying about it.

 

 

It doesn't matter what happened in the past, it was cat D which implies cosmetic damage, so forget about it, it makes no difference.

[nomoremoney]

Ok thanks very much all of you for putting my mind at ease.

 

I guess I'll see what happens with this solicitor of theirs.

[renegadeimp]

A solicitor will send whatever they are paid to send. If you get anything from a solicitor, then come back here and we will help you send them a reply that will make them shut up. Either they do, or they get reported to the SRA.

 

Besides, why employ a solicitor? If they throught they had a case, theyd just issue you a LBA then take you to SCC.

 

It's buyers remorse plain and simple.

[nomoremoney]

Thank you - you've no idea how much peace of mind you've given us.

[renegadeimp]

And remember as another poster mentioned before, there is no requirement to state it is a cat d. They should have checked it out themselves before purchase on a private sale, plus you never misdescribed it.

 

Classic case of buyers remorse, they dont want to admit it so are threating you. If they took you to court, wonder what the judge would say about the intimidation and threats of violence they made

[Conniff]

There is no requirement to do anything you don't know about so how can you have misdescribed something if you didn't know.

 

As said before, it's buyer beware on private sales as long as the car is not dangerous or you have deliberatley hidden a problem with it. Cat D can also mean it was stolen recovered, it doesn't have to have been damaged at all.

 

These things are also worth remembering if you should buy privately.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Conniff

[estellyn]

A work colleague once told me of his friend who had bought a car and found something wrong with it, so returned it later the same day. He did this several times with different cars to different sellers - not because he wanted to buy a car, but because he had decided that this was a good way to get free use of a car for a day or less. He also came a cropper when a seller refused to give him his money back and became very angry. It was the first thing I thought of when I read the post. The anger and threats seem disproportionate to the situation - why do they not just sell the car themselves to get their money back if it's of no use to them, it would cost less than solicitor fees.

[scaniaman]

Should they contact you again, either direct or by lawyer, just tell them a private buy is "Caveat Emptor" = Buyer beware.

[JoeyJoeC]

Cat D is nothing. If it's been repaired, it's not going to affect insurance or anything. Usually means it's cosmetic, and not a dangerous issue.

[carbuyer101]

Cat D is nothing. If it's been repaired, it's not going to affect insurance or anything. Usually means it's cosmetic, and not a dangerous issue.

 

Usually Cat D would cost less to repair than the value of the car, but the insurer decides to write it off anyway for whatever reason. Cat C is usually damage that costs more than the value of the car so the insurer writes it off, but often people buy back and get the work done cheaper than insurance rates.

 

So the category given (in case of D or C) is more of an indicator of the total cost of the repair, not the level of damage the car actually sustained. Some valuable cars with quite disturbing amounts of damage can still be classed as cat D and returned to the road, where as some older cheaper cars with minor damage can be a cat C.

Edited August 8, 2015 by carbuyer101

[Conniff]

I would think the op has got the message by now. Have you had any more hassle from the buyer ??

[nomoremoney]

Not yet, so hopefully the buyer has also got the message! Still I appreciate all the comments they have been reassuring and empowering.

[panther12]

As an aside you can check for free whether a car has a cat marker on the Autotrader website. Click on that your selling a car and enter the reg No. Click next and it will show if there is a cat marker. My car is a cat C and had to obtain a vic check but that doesn't apply to cat d.

[nomoremoney]

Hi caggers, today by signed for delivery (which the post man just put through we didn't sign for it) I got a letter before action. I've scanned it into a PDF.

 

 

I also thought it best to include a copy of the eBay listing. It would print out properly while keeping the entire description and I'm worried ebay will delete it soon. So I've printed each part separately and blanked out the identifying details.

 

 

 

 

Its really winding me up how they are using this Cat D as an excuse when they only wanted to return the car because of the seat belts. Also this case they mention is from the late 1800's and as far as I can tell is irrelevant as I have not made any statements which could be deemed false.

[carbuyer101]

You failed to mention it was cat d: irrelevant unless you are a car trader.

You failed to disclose the 'true' history: He would need to explain what this means? Anyway your advert lists clearly the history and again.

 

I'm no expert but "Derrek vs Peek" case law he refers to is about a business transaction, not a private sale. You are not a car dealer, it isn't up to you to disclose stuff that you may not even know about. The only issue is if you knowingly told a blatant lie, for example if he directly asked you "Has this car ever been written off?" and you replied "No". Even then he would have to prove you were lying.

 

I think if you described the car accurately and didn't lie about its condition and you are not a car trader then you have nothing to worry about. His letter before action is trying to scare you. Draft up a reply, send it back to him on day 19 using recorded delivery. Await his next pathetic attempt to bully you.

[nomoremoney]

Thanks. Should I point all that out in the reply?

[carbuyer101]

Has he provided any evidence the car is not as described anyway?

[renegadeimp]

He took it for a test drive and examined it. The OP's case is pretty solid. The buyer is either trying to pull a con, or has a serious case of buyers remorse. In either case, they wont win a case, and since they have tried to threaten and intimidate the OP, have crossed the line to criminal action.