other foot in door by HCEO for vets bill - made to pay +£4000 on the spot - HELP!!

[mounsey44]

Hello, this is my first post here and I desperately need advice.

 

I owed £2,357.13 after a CCJ judgement to a veterinary practice.

My dog had his leg amputated.

The vet gave me a choice.

Euthanize my dog or amputate the leg. I wanted neither.

Did not have £1700 to pay for this. Hence the debt.

 

No excuses for not paying, but my 6 year old daughter has a life threatening condition called 'Rett Syndrome'.

She had been in and out of hospital around the time all this happened and nothing else seems important except her.

The letters were put to one side and simply forgotten about.

 

On the 20th July at 8am,

A bailiff called from 'Court Enforcement Services Ltd' saying I owed £4286.76.

This was the first time I had seen him, or even heard this! £2,357.13 to £4286.76

 

As soon as the door opened, his foot went across the threshold to stop me closing it.

I explained I was getting my 6 year disabled daughter ready for school, and could he come back.

He said no.

He also said had I not opened the door, he would have broke in with the locksmith who was waiting down the road.

 

 

If I didn't pay now, he was calling vans and porters to take my things and this would cost me £250 plus the porters too.

I had to pay or he was clearing my house, everything but my daughters wheelchair.

 

As a HCEO he was entitled to come in and I couldn't stop him or so he said.

 

He would not part with any paperwork until I had paid him.

I told him I never had that kind of money, which I didnt.

The most I could get was £1300.

That would have to be taken from my daughters account with charity money raised.

I showed him this, (not that he cared).

 

 

Transferred it into my own account and gave this to him crying.

 

I then rang my Dad, who loaned me the rest. Both were paid by debit card. The debt was piad in full.

 

All the time he was there, he sat on my sofa watching me feed my daughter smirking and on Facebook.

 

No warning of him coming,

no letters,

nothing just him turning up.

 

 

Ironically the next day. The notice of enforcement came saying I had till the 19th July to pay £2558.88!!

 

A DIFFERENCE OF £1727.88 OVERNIGHT - no explanation of what for - I asked and was told 'probably solicitors fees'

 

After an email to the said company for a breakdown, I was sent this

 

High Court Writ - £2468.88

 

Compliance Stage (Administration Fee): £90.00 inc VAT

 

1st Enforcement Stage : £228.00 inc VAT + if the debt is above £1,000, there is a 7.5% = £228.00 plus £133.18

 

2nd Enforcement Stage: £594.00 inc VAT = £594.00

 

Sale or Disposal Stage: £630.00 inc VAT = £630.00 there is a 7.5% fee of the amount above £1000> = £130.81

 

There are 2 compliance stage fees of £90 - one is added to the notice of enforcement, a second to the final bill.

The CCJ judgement debt was £2357.13 yet on their notice of enforcement it says its £2468.88.

 

I hope this makes sense, and apologise if it doesnt. Im still in a state of shock.

Can anyone please advise me what I can now do. I am devastated that I have been fooled and lied too like this.

 

Thank You.

 

Incidentally - The HCEO is one from the TV programme 'Cant pay, we'll take it away'

Edited August 2, 2015 by dx100uk
name removed docs removed

[dx100uk]

urm..

if I'm reading the right

this was your private home and not a business address

 

 

he has NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to put his foot in your door

its a civil debt NO a criminal one, which does not give him any powers of forced enter

nor the use of locksmiths.

 

 

as far as I'm aware the 'enforcement' fees are £75 for the first letter

then £235 if they have to visit.

 

 

sorry you need to complain very loudly and very forcefully to everyone you can.

 

 

if I were you I'd contact your bank and reverse that transaction

and also get your father? to do a chargeback on his card too.

 

 

if you story is true

 

 

what the HCEO has done here is TOTALLY illegal.

 

 

dx

[fkofilee]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaa????... Its that Bailiff from TV?

 

DX is right all the way. Can I just state for the record, be careful when complaining, it could cost you dearly...

[unclebulgaria67]

Perhaps the name of the HCEO should be witheld until those with more expert knowledge have taken a look at this.

 

Does not sound good though. Can an HCEO put their foot in a door like this and act in the way the OP says they did ?

 

Makes my blood boil . I would have punched them and taken the consequences. Putting a foot in the door is a violent action and many people would react.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

urm..

if I'm reading the right

this was your private home and not a business address

 

 

he has NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to put his foot in your door

its a civil debt NO a criminal one, which does not give him any powers of forced enter

nor the use of locksmiths.

 

 

as far as I'm aware the 'enforcement' fees are £75 for the first letter

then £235 if they have to visit.

 

 

sorry you need to complain very loudly and very forcefully to everyone you can.

 

 

if I were you I'd contact your bank and reverse that transaction

and also get your father? to do a chargeback on his card too.

 

 

if you story is true

 

 

what the HCEO has done here is TOTALLY illegal.

 

 

dx

 

Correct, he has no right to push in or jam a foot in the door.

 

Wrong on the fees though.

 

Compliance is £75 + vat.

 

1st fee is 190+vat + 7.5%.

2nd and sale also sound correct amounts.

 

To the op, do you have any proof he did what your saying he did? Without that, you will get nowhere. Any video? Any recording? Was the Ea recording?

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

You must also understand that we often get pushed out of a property and will jam feet in door etc to stop it being closed. If we have had peaceful entry then its legal. Fir all we know, a second side to this story could be just that. But we will likely never know unless the op has video etc.

[unclebulgaria67]

You must also understand that we often get pushed out of a property and will jam feet in door etc to stop it being closed. If we have had peaceful entry then its legal. Fir all we know, a second side to this story could be just that. But we will likely never know unless the op has video etc.

 

If you did that with many people, you would have a fight on your hands. Dangerous game to play.

[i hate bailiffs]

There is no defence to the bailiff

 

No right of entry

No locksmith

No putting foot in door

Completely out of order and illegal

[Bailiff Advice]

I cannot see the Notice of Enforcement very clearly. What date is the notice dated and what is the date (and time) by when payment must be made?

[fkofilee]

I cant either ... Might be worth PDF'ing those photos...

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

If you did that with many people, you would have a fight on your hands. Dangerous game to play.

 

A fight that will land the debtor in prison and we still empty the house as we would just enter another tine on the courts order. We may even walk away as we have been thrown out, but the next occasion, with the police, 2 or 3 bailiffs and a court order to force entry.

Nice that you see it as a game, but real life is not a game.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

There is no defence to the bailiff

 

No right of entry

No locksmith

No putting foot in door

Completely out of order and illegal

 

We have a right of entry, but no right to FORCE entry, except on magi fine, which this is not.

Locksmiths can be and are used, but only after a CGA or prior peaceful entry. A court order would be required to force entry after being extracted from a property by a debtor using force though. Which, in this case, may have been that the EA got lawful entry, and was then pushed out...but....if he kept his foot in the door, then he hasn't yet been forced out completely and the debtor would now be obstructing.

Depends on the other side of the story to determine what is legal and illegal, but of this story is an exact statement of what happened, then yes, I would agree. But without video/witnesses, the OP may not have a leg to stand on, and even worse, may incur further costs in trying to pursue.

[Sparks_]

How did he get from a foot in the door to sitting on the settee whilst she as getting her disabled daughter ready for school....shows no sensativity or compassion, would this lady not be classed as vulnerable? What kind of human being sits and smirks whilst a lone female parent is looking after her disabled child?

[daverules]

I think this is the same guy using his arm and body preventing a lady to close the door.

 

http://www.channel5.com/shows/cant-p...demand-special

 

Interesting how he keeps his arm in between the door and door framing preventing the lady from

closing it and then starts on about being assaulted. (aprox 30 min to the program)

 

Also it's been mentioned on CAG regarding the way things are going we will hear more and more

about people loosing temper and assaulting a bailiff as in the beginning of the program.

 

Regards to all.

[mikeymack2002]

Please remove the PDF's in post 1 as you name is visible and/or make more edits to the picture then repost as a PDF please

[Bailiff Advice]

 

But without video/witnesses, the OP may not have a leg to stand on, and even worse, may incur further costs in trying to pursue.

 

In some cases it could be worth requesting a copy of the body own camera but in this particular case, it should have been turned off if a young child was present in the room.

[mounsey44]

Correct, he has no right to push in or jam a foot in the door.

 

Wrong on the fees though.

 

Compliance is £75 + vat.

 

1st fee is 190+vat + 7.5%.

2nd and sale also sound correct amounts.

 

To the op, do you have any proof he did what your saying he did? Without that, you will get nowhere. Any video? Any recording? Was the Ea recording?

 

He was wearing a bodycam - plus the fact he has overcharged me so much is proof too...?

[mounsey44]

The only genuine costs made were the compliance stage and enforcement stage.

 

 

The rest he made up.

 

 

no goods were removed or even listed for removal.

 

 

I paid him on his FIRST and ONLY visit. I had no choice.

 

Also the reason he got inside was because he told me I couldn't stop him.

 

 

I asked him to wait outside, as I was getting my little girl ready for school.

He said no.

 

 

My daughter cant be left alone for more then 5/10 mins.

She was upstairs.

It was a catch 22.

I couldn't close the door, he wouldn't move.

..my daughter was upstairs..I had to get her.

 

He made a point of telling me his camera was running.

 

 

My husband was there, and told him to get his foot out of the door

..thats when he said it was being filmed and he would call the police if he was threatened again.

[mounsey44]

The notice of enforcement and the receipt.

Will scan them in later if still not clear - sorry...they looked ok this end ?

 

I had till the 19th July to pay..HCEO came on the 20th.

[mounsey44]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaa????... Its that Bailiff from TV?

 

DX is right all the way. Can I just state for the record, be careful when complaining, it could cost you dearly...

 

Yes, he's from the TV show.....and he's all over twitter too....a real 'Star'.....

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Yes, you need to make a complaint, outlining what you have here including a breakdown of the costs. Ask how sale stage fees were warranted, although if he had a van, just the act of starting to lift goods can warrant sale stage.

 

You need to try and get a copy of the video before it gets "lost" in order that should you take it to an EAC2 complaint, you will have it. Unlikely it will be supplied to you though. You may have to start the eac2 to get them to show it.

 

Don't forget, enf1 is charged if they attended to make an arrangement, then go straight to enf2 if no prior contact, and sale stage can be added if you refuse to pay at any point.

 

No, having a disabled child does NOT automatically make you vulnerable, BUT it may have put you in that category which should have allowed you more time to sort the matter.

 

That doesn't mean the bailiff would walk away, it just means that he should allow more time, bit as your husband was there, that is negated as you could have dealt with bailiffs while husband sorted child. That's not nice but it is the way the court would look at it.

 

You would be better to concentrate a complaint about the bailiff entering with force and the fees added. Also, depending on the dates on the NOE, that would be a basis for complaint too if its not run its course.

[dx100uk]

Remove your pers details and ref numbers first please

 

Then upload as a PDF

[mounsey44]

Thanks everyone.

 

If I approached my bank and asked for a chargeback, would they allow it given the amount?

 

 

How would I explain to them what happened?

 

 

Worried they might think I was trying to pull a fast one.

God knows I'm not.

 

 

But hard to believe I handed that amount over without seeing a breakdown of the costs.

I could kick myself now.

Amazing what you do when under duress....

 

Also, the debt amount differs on the CCJ and the notice of enforcement..plus 2 £90 compliance stage fees.

...its a complete mess..

..not to mention the made up fees

....does that not count as fraud?

 

Feel like crying.

..lost everything through a bully boy bailiff and his lies..

...now begins the task of trying to get it back.....

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

The difference between the judgment and the notice should be £111.75. That's the transfer costs associated with high court transfers. There ay be a few pence of interest too.

 

I would be wary of a charge back, as the debt will then be outstanding again, and you may find they just apply to court for a warrant to gain entry, as they will claim prior peaceful entry so they have the right to re-enter. Sounds far fetched, but I have seen it done on a charge back case.

You will also find that they will robustly defend the chargeback in the first place as chip and pin. So it's not fraud and they may also state that its not "under duress". The bailiff had give the choice of removal or payment. That's what they are there for, and more and more banks are refusing to call that duress.

[brassnecked]

You must also understand that we often get pushed out of a property and will jam feet in door etc to stop it being closed. If we have had peaceful entry then its legal. Fir all we know, a second side to this story could be just that. But we will likely never know unless the op has video etc.

 

Where I live you might get the three hits from some of the characters around here, debtor hits you you hit the floor, ambulance hits 90mph, while you are on the deck your van is on bricks as the local scrotes hate bailiffs and will have the wheels away.

 

That is the problem with HCE though the fees are higher. Don't the HCEO EA's want to get their claws into CCA debt, and Student Loans?