RBS PPI low offer received

[stevem987]

Some advice needed. I have received an offer of redress from RBS regarding PPI on an old Natwest credit card. I used the FOS Running sheet to calculate the amount due. I have all the statements for the card (1989 - 2006). I sent copies of the statements to them along with what I have calculated to be the amount due - just under £14000 in 2006 plus stat. interest since then of approx £10000. A total of £24000.

 

They seem to have ignored what I sent them and made an offer of under £3000. From the small amount of information they provided, it appears they haven't even been able to add up the PPI premiums correctly or calculate the compound interest that they charged me. They say that it's their final offer. I asked them (over the phone) to send a breakdown of their calculations and they refused to provide any more detail.

 

I have spoken to the Ombudsman and I have to say that I'm not filled with confidence in their abilities. She seemed confused about compound interest being re-funded, which is the biggest part of the claim. I've also heard of 9 - 12 month processing times.

 

Any advice on what to do next would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

[theoldrouge]

What interest rates were you charged, and what average rate did you use on your spreadsheet?

 

What was the total of premiums paid?

 

Were you in credit /zero balance during the duration that you were charged PPI?

[stevem987]

Hi, thanks for the fast response. Interest rates between 29 and 18 percent. Used a rate of 25.3% as an average. Total premiums were £1421.38

 

Most of the time there was a balance on it. I included late payment charges in the claim as most of these were applied when I would have been in credit according to the sheet.

 

I pointed out to them that I had included these charges in my calculation.

[theoldrouge]

Charges are a separate claim . your figures seem quite high for 1421 in premiums even starting 1989

 

Redo your spread minus charges and post it up please

[stevem987]

Try again... I'll have done ten posts by the time I get it to work.

[citizenB]

You don't need 10 posts. Just follow the instructions on the link below.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?431533-How-to-Upload-Documents-Images-on-CAG-Immediately-(you-do-not-need-10-posts)

 

It is best to convert any document to pdf format though and keep your file size low. I think you will only be permitted to upload a total of 4MB .

[stevem987]

Thanks for that citizenB. I was looking for some instructions although I managed to work it out when I clicked "go advanced".

 

Regarding the above sheet, I'm sure I read on another thread to include charges for late payment if the money they owed you put you in credit.

 

I decided to incude as much as possible on the grounds that any offer would be in full and final settlement etc.

[citizenB]

For reclaiming, charges are a separate issue - however, some companies recognise that if you hadn't had the PPI then the default/penalty charges wouldn't have been applied so in their calculations these are included.

[stevem987]

For reclaiming, charges are a separate issue - however, some companies recognise that if you hadn't had the PPI then the default/penalty charges wouldn't have been applied so in their calculations these are included.

 

Yes, this is what I thought. I wanted to try to deal with it as one issue.

 

Has anyone had a chance to look at the spreadsheet I did? I've taken out the late payment charges etc. The amount it came up with looked very high to me as well.

 

Just need to know whether I should accept their offer.

[stevem987]

Sorry to pester, but can anyone help?

 

theoldrouge, have you had a chance to look at the spreadsheet I uploaded?

[theoldrouge]

Are you running to the date they stopped charging interest ?

 

Do a cross check using FOS CI sheet plus stat int sheet from date they stopped charging

 

Given the size of the premiums, seems far too large

[stevem987]

Thanks for the response.

 

I'll check again with the sheets you mentioned in the morning.

[stevem987]

Just checked with the CI sheet you mentioned and it calculates the compound interest to be £7912. The FOS sheet calculated it to be £10224.

 

Shouldn't they be the same? Should I believe either of them?

 

Here is a copy of the CI sheet:

[stevem987]

theoldrouge, not sure what you meant by "Are you running to the date they stopped charging interest ?". I just entered all the statements into the fosrunning sheet (non missing) from when the account opened in 1989 to when it closed in 2006. I am not calculating up to todays date if that's what you mean. The simple interest is the easy bit from 2006 to now.

 

The balance column on the fosrunning matches the balance on the statement. I assume it should, otherwise it couldn't calculate the card balance excluding ppi and therefore the simple interest due on the credit balance. The card balance is calculated by the sheet, so it is a good cross check that you've put the monthly spend and payment amounts in correctly. I'm not sure how it could go wrong unless you start altering formulas, which I haven't.

 

Btw, RBS have calculated the "compound interest on premiums" to be £265. I have no idea how they have calculated that figure.

 

If the amount RBS are offering is less than it should be, I've got some questions about how to go about getting it off them, via fos or court.

 

I can't move on to that until I'm sure what they owe me. Help!

[theoldrouge]

my opinion is that calc is much nearer the mark, but will be slightly lower given the periods when the card was in credit

 

You need to demand as strongly as possible that rbs review their calculations which are clearly wrong

[stevem987]

Thanks theoldrouge, but I think I might have made a gaff with the fosrunning spreadsheet.

 

As mentioned before, I entered the figures from the statements. Total spend and total payments from the statement on each row.

 

This then gives a running balance the same as the statements. However, it doesn't take into account whether interest was charged that month or not. It charges compound interest on all the PPI payments, giving a very high figure.

 

If I take the payment from the following month statement and enter that into the row instead, first I get a load of errors because the sheet doesn't seem to like zeros. If I then replace the zero spend / payments with 0.01 I get figures very similar to what the bank have come up with! The card balance which initially matched what it said on the statements disappears to be replaced with what I assume is the balance that they have charged interest on. I think I've confused statement balance with card balance.

 

I actually tried to fill in the sheet like this first, but because of the errors I got with the zero spend and payments, I assumed I'd done it wrong.

 

A few questions:

 

Do you think the sheet (attached) now looks correct and that I should accept their offer?

 

I don't understand why it doesn't appear to be adding statutory interest to the PPI premiums. I know you use the StatIntSheet from 2006 to todays date, but shouldn't this be added from 1989? It just calculates compound interest that I've been charged and interest on a positive balance. Should it do this?

 

What use is the FOSCISheet or CISheet for a credit card account when it doesn't take into account whether you have actually been charged compound interest on the premiums?

[theoldrouge]

Because you were making such large monthly payments for most of the time, compound interest would be very limited

 

The FOSCI sheet really only works when continually making minimum payments each month

and is a rough guide at best

 

I am still not convinced by the rbs offer, and I would ask as strongly as possible(demand) that they recalculate and show you their calculations

[Baz1994]

As oldrouge has mentioned - demand that you receive a complete breakdown of premiums etc from RBS.

 

I had to on numerous occasions and eventually received them. Also get them to confirm what interest rate was used for calculations as mine were variable and in the end they refunded the extra.

 

Good luck.