Grievance reply time

[jimbocw]

my work contract states that I have no fixed contracted hours but I have been doing the same pattern of 48 hrs per week for over a year. I am being paid holiday pay based on my last 12 weeks average hours, which is less because of christmas day and new year closure and also some reduced hours for christmas eve and new years eve. I believe I should be paid holiday based on 48hrs per week which is my normal weekly hours, can someone advise me of the correct holiday calculation that should be followed.

[Emmzzi]

your employer is correct

 

https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/holiday-pay-the-basics

[jimbocw]

Emmzzi .My employer contract says that I have no set weekly working hours but for holiday calculation my employer contract also says that I should consult my employee hand book which states the same as the gov.uk link that you provided in that if my weekly working hours vary then I should calculate holiday pay based on the average hours over the previous 12 weeks, it also goes on to say that if my normal hours are fixed (and mine have been for over a year) that holiday pay is based on my normal working hours. What I am saying is that although the general terms of my contract are that I have no normal fixed weekly working hours the reality is that for well over a year I clearly have been working the same day/hours and therefore the employee handbook rule on this appears to agree with my argument.

[Atlas01]

Unless you can get your employer to agree you are working a contractual 48hr week (good luck with that one) the default legal position is the 12 week period.

 

I can't think of any other way and think your on a loser with this one.

[Sidewinder]

Unless you can get your employer to agree you are working a contractual 48hr week (good luck with that one) the default legal position is the 12 week period.

 

I can't think of any other way and think your on a loser with this one.

 

Agreed. Very unlikely that any employer would issue a 48 hour a week contract in these circumstances - it would set too much of a precedent.

 

All that is required to meet the terms of the WTR is to pay based on the 12 week average

[jimbocw]

I am looking for help in calculation of holiday pay. I have no fixed contracted hours but have worked 48hrs per week for a year and a half, because of this I have calculated my previous 12 weeks working hours prior to leave and as I have said this is 48hrs. I believe my leave pay should be as follows, 5.6 weeks annual leave multiplied by 48 hours equals 268.8 hours annual leave divided by 28 annual leave days per year equals 9.6 hours per holiday. My employer has paid me 9.23 hours per holiday and has insisted that this is correct.

[SabreSheep]

Have you removed unpaid breaks from your calculations?

[obiter dictum]

Are bank holidays also included in your 28 day statutory entitlement

[jimbocw]

Breaks are all paid and bank holidays are included in the 28 day entitlement

[Sidewinder]

Is any of your normal working week treated as 'overtime'?

[jimbocw]

No overtime, I have a fixed 4 x 12hr shift pattern at the moment which has not changed for at least 18 months, although as I have said I am not contracted to any specific hours per week and this can change but hasn't in the last 18 months. I have used guidance from Gov.UK for someone not on fixed/contracted hours in that the calculation is based on the average work pay over the previous 12 weeks before the leave was taken.

[ericsbrother]

have you asked your employer how they arrived at their figures and ask them whether they considered the legislation and employment tribunal decisions on such things when making their calculations

[jimbocw]

I did ask for an explanation on how the figures were reached but was not given any details, they insisted that the holiday pay was correct and when I told them I disagreed they told me that I had to put it in writing and await a reply which I am now doing.

[ericsbrother]

if you dont get a response you will have to formalise it as a grievance.

[jimbocw]

I am looking for general advice regarding a reasonable amount of time for my employer to reply to a grievance regarding the amount of holiday pay I receive. I have had no further response from my employer other than the initial acknowledgement received two weeks ago.

[unclebulgaria67]

I am looking for general advice regarding a reasonable amount of time for my employer to reply to a grievance regarding the amount of holiday pay I receive. I have had no further response from my employer other than the initial acknowledgement received two weeks ago.

 

No set amount of time, unless the companies policy states timescales. It probably just say reasonable time depending on the complexity of the case.

 

I would say a month or two at the most. If there are wider staff issues caused by your grievance, then it might require some working out. Other people may have the same holiday pay issue.

[jimbocw]

Thanks for the reply, Although I do think a month or two seems a bit long to be considered reasonable for something I consider should be frankly straight forward for my employer to explain i.e. a simple formula / calculation of holiday pay for all employees.

[think about it]

Thanks for the reply, Although I do think a month or two seems a bit long to be considered reasonable for something I consider should be frankly straight forward for my employer to explain i.e. a simple formula / calculation of holiday pay for all employees.

 

But, and it's a big but, if they've got it wrong and it affects everyone in the organisation then they'll take their time crafting a response and working put how to mitigate the issue.

[SabreSheep]

There should be detals set out in your contract/employment handbook regarding timescales for grievence and/or disciplinary procedures.

 

You could ask for a copy of the procedure.

 

IF you are not treated to those timescales, then you could in theory move to the next stage of appeal.

 

Bearing in mind laws relating to holiday pay have changed recently it may well be as above, that they are having to review their policies. BUT at least they should acknowledge your complaint and let you know they are investigating in order to prevent an appeal for an out of time grievance hearing

[ericsbrother]

did you ask to take holiday under the WTR? if so they have to respond within a set time. If this is a grievance about your company not paying you the correct amount then they can drag it out almost indefinitely by just giving a cursory acknowledgement and then promising a full investigation.

[jimbocw]

Thanks for the replies, I can see the implications in regard to impact on employees if they have to review their policies. With regard to the employee handbook and timescales, no timescale is given, it just states that any grievance should be made in writing and also after the hearing my right to appeal etc. but again no timescales given. I have emailed my immediate manager and HR about my lack of any further information/contact since the initial acknowledgment from HR on the 13th July. I have made the claim under sections 221 - 224 of the Employment Rights Act 1996.