shared boundary wall

[Clear33]

Hi,

 

 

On my front driveway I share the boundary with my next door neighbour. Reluctantly agreed some years ago to let them replace the boundary wall. They did a bad job (on our side only). Also they then moved the front driveway gate post back as they kept crashing into it.

 

 

This created a dangerous step which I have nearly fallen over several times as I walk out of my driveway.

 

 

I have wanted my driveway gate post reinstated for a long while into its proper, original position, at the end of the drive. We only originally gave permission for it to be built back a foot or two from the end whilst the neighbours were driving and they have lost their licences now.

 

 

Question:

 

 

This morning a car turning around in my driveway crashed into the wall and knocked down this post and a bit of wall.

 

 

I do not want it replacing back in its 'wrong' place. Am I legally entitled to refuse permission for this, now? I just want it putting back in its right place which would get rid of the dangerous step too and allow me, finally, to have some driveway gates and the security I require.

 

 

Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

You have to seek agreement with the neighbour, otherwise you risk getting involved in an even more messy situation. Explain to them what you want to do and come to an agreement, both are happy with. Is the maintenance of the wall shared or on the land registry details, is one house owner responsible ? Something to check.

 

Re the vehicle collision with the wall, check Home Insurance Buildings cover. It is probably covered, but it is whether it is worth claiming with the excess and future premium increases.

[Clear33]

So she has to seek agreement with me over this before replacing the post?

 

 

She classes this as her wall. It was 'our wall' with the previous neighbours and we each maintained our own sides. However after she went on and on about replacing it when she moved in, we gave permission and she paid for it. We did not pay for half as it did not need replacing.

 

 

I revoked permission verbally with neighbour for the driveway post to remain set back, a year or two ago, since permission was only given due to them driving and crashing into it and now there is no reason for it to remain in that place.

 

 

There is every reason to have the post re-instated in its proper place - so that I can have driveway gates - and to remove this dangerous step. The neighbour herself fell over it, however she isn't the slightest bit bothered that anyone else could too. So I do not know.

[unclebulgaria67]

Try not to get into an argument, as that appears to be where you are heading. You must resolve who is responsible for this boundary wall. You can obtain the boundary plans from land registry to see whether it clarifies ownership.

 

Both neighbours should approach this from the point of view that selling a house with disputes over boundaries knocking off thousands off the value and making it more difficult to sell. Also don't get Solicitors involved, who will want £500 just to take a look.

 

Talk about the issues with the neighbour and see if you can work together, without it costing either more than it should.

[Clear33]

Hi UB

 

 

Could you clarify?

 

 

You seem to know things that I do not and are pre-empting that I know them too. I do not.

I have asked someone else here and they say it is clear as mud to them too. I just want the facts, not so that I go in all guns blazing - I will not.

If anything I usually do the opposite and am more giving. But I would like to know that I may refuse for her to rebuild the post in the 'wrong' place in our shared boundary.

 

 

 

I checked my deeds last time and it has a H on it which denotes a shared boundary wall, I believe.

 

 

I do not understand the law with regards to whose wall it is. My neighbour paid for it under the situation outlined above and when I wanted to get a new wall installed, and offered to pay for it all too since she paid for it last time (as a friends said they maybe able to do it for me) to correct the unsightliness and damage of the wall of my side (I would NEVER do that to her) and to raise it to a decent height for privacy and security and so I may get rid of the dangerous step and put in driveway gates, she was adamant that it was her wall and no, I could not upgrade it to accommodate both our needs.

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

What ought to be a simple straight forward matter, has not been

[Clear33]

How do I obtain boundary plans from land registry, please? Will these be different to deeds of house boundaries?

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Clear33

[Ethel Street]

It's simple enough to get the property plan but it's highly unlikely to tell you anything useful for the reasons explained on GOV.UK and the Land Registry's own blog. There are no separate 'boundary plans, normally there's just the Title Plan. It's not expensive to get a copy - I think it was about £3 - £4 last time I got one. You have to register on Land Registry site, pay online and download the plan as a pdf. So you can do it within 10 minutes but don't be surprised if it's no help to your question. (It sounds as if you already have the Title Plan anyway as you refer to the H Mark on it.)

 

https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

 

http://blog.landregistry.gov.uk/boundary-questions-answered/

 

My Local Authority directed me to the Planning Portal website

 

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/fenceswallsgates

 

http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/fences.html

 

Before going any further I recommend you look through all these sites to get a handle on the complexity of boundary issues.

[Clear33]

Thankyou Ethel Street. I will look through these sites. In the meantime, if someone starts work on the wall, without having consulted me first, am I able to ask them to stop?

[Ethel Street]

Thankyou Ethel Street. I will look through these sites. In the meantime, if someone starts work on the wall, without having consulted me first, am I able to ask them to stop?

 

Sorry Clear33, I don't know enough about boundary law to offer an opinion on that.

[Clear33]

THanks ES. Useful stuff.

 

 

'In the meantime, if someone starts work on the wall, without having consulted me first, am I able to ask them to stop?' Anyone able to shed light on this?

[Ethel Street]

THanks ES. Useful stuff.

 

 

'In the meantime, if someone starts work on the wall, without having consulted me first, am I able to ask them to stop?' Anyone able to shed light on this?

 

I'll take a guess though Clear33, that if all your neighbour is doing is repairing the wall and putting it and the gate post back into the state they were in immediately before the car recently backed into them then no I don't think you can stop them. You agreed to the wall and gate post being where they are - it may have been reluctant and some years ago but nevertheless it was an agreement. You also agreed that the wall would be built and paid for by the neighbour so I'd think that means they own the wall. They probably can't change it without your agreement but I'd think they have the right - probably the duty - to maintain it and keep it in good repair.

 

But I'm not a lawyer or a boundary expert so don't take my word for it!

[unclebulgaria67]

THanks ES. Useful stuff.

 

 

'In the meantime, if someone starts work on the wall, without having consulted me first, am I able to ask them to stop?' Anyone able to shed light on this?

 

http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/walls.html

 

If you look at this link which has already been provided, it is a shared boundary. Just because they paid for it the last time does not mean it is their wall. If you have reasonable problems with it and one of them is that it presents a hazard, then speak to the neighbour. Use the car damaging it as reason to suggest a change is necessary when the damage is rectified, which you are happy to pay towards.

 

See if you can come to an amicable agreement with them. Perhaps the wall as it was built did not suit them either and you can come to a solution. If they start kicking up a fuss, then put something in writing to them, saying you want to avoid getting lawyers or courts involved, as it would cost both money.

[unclebulgaria67]

THanks ES. Useful stuff.

 

 

'In the meantime, if someone starts work on the wall, without having consulted me first, am I able to ask them to stop?' Anyone able to shed light on this?

 

Not without some legal procedure of which i am not sure what it would involve. Might be more expensive than the cost of the work to the boundary.

[Clear33]

I want to be rich.

 

 

I would delegate it to a solicitor.

 

 

Thanks all.

[Clear33]

Not without some legal procedure of which i am not sure what it would involve. Might be more expensive than the cost of the work to the boundary.

 

 

 

I do not really understand why I can not now object to having it replaced as it was in the 'wrong' place if works try to go ahead on it. Remember we only agreed to it being moved back because they were crashing into it and now they do not drive.

 

 

If others have problems getting into the drive with the gate in its correct position, then I asked advice on this forum a while back and it is down to her to widen her drive. This would be relatively easy to do and she has two driveways in which to choose to do this on. She also has plenty of money although she pretends she has none - which is also a little tricky in discussion.

 

 

I have now offered to pay for the post to go back in its original position - so that I can have driveway gates and get rid of the hazaderous step. - it is more of a hazard to me now, than initially, due to my fluctuating disability. I offered to pay for wall repair to fill in the gap to the new gatepost.

 

 

She is getting onto her insurance about it and doesn't see the point in me having driveway gates. ANd is basically wanting it to stay as it was, completely negating and/or ignoring current needs.

 

 

She wanted me to leave all the bricks all over my drive (they fell onto my side) until the insurance sees them. when told that they would be a tripping hazard she ummed and arred and reluctantly said they could be moved to her front garden. They were moved and there was no thanks of the gesture.

 

 

Time to finally put it in a friendly email to her I feel. Perhaps succinct points will help resolve the issue swiftly.

[unclebulgaria67]

If it were me, i think i would get someone independent i.e a builder or other tradesman that deals with driveway/boundary walls to come and have a look, so they can suggest what can be done that would be best for both neighbours.

[Ethel Street]

She wanted me to leave all the bricks all over my drive (they fell onto my side) until the insurance sees them. when told that they would be a tripping hazard she ummed and arred and reluctantly said they could be moved to her front garden. They were moved and there was no thanks of the gesture.

.

 

All she needed to do was take a photograph!

 

If it were me, i think i would get someone independent i.e a builder or other tradesman that deals with driveway/boundary walls to come and have a look, so they can suggest what can be done that would be best for both neighbours.

 

Agreed.

[Clear33]

If it were me, i think i would get someone independent i.e a builder or other tradesman that deals with driveway/boundary walls to come and have a look, so they can suggest what can be done that would be best for both neighbours.

 

 

 

I would be happy for an independent person to do that. Is there a special list of them qualified in this at all?

 

 

Will give that a go.

[Clear33]

All she needed to do was take a photograph!

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

But I should have thought of that myself - also! Cagger in the corner - oops. And if I had of thought of that, I would have done it for her too (I do not have insurance in order to make a claim anyway despite the wall 'ownership' issue). It was offered to store the bricks in my garage too but she was quick not to want that.

 

 

I do dispute that the wall is hers simply because she paid for it - under those circumstances - however trying to assert that would only create more friction and it doesn't seem really to matter at this point.

[Clear33]

Well, her 'workman' as she calls him was initially and continually aggressive and rude to me this morning and things did not go well when trying to explain my needs.

I went out because I overheard the whole conversation they were having about the wall and me and was appalled. There was even undertones that there might have been no car! Utter cheek. Not only would I NEVER do anything like that ie: knock down the wall, IF I was that type, I certainly would not choose now to do it as I am in the midst of other crises.

 

 

Bottom Line :She just wants it left the same and is passive aggressive. I have put the situation in writing now in order to try and get some clarity to the situation, suggested the hope of together finding an independent workman who will take account of both our needs. I do not know if she will just go ahead and stick end post back on through her insurance or privately. The last repair job she got done was appalling also. It actually looks better how it currently is now.

 

 

I know I am entitled to simply put in the original gatepost back into its original place after informing her in writing - but I have been waiting these last year and a half in order to be patient and try and get proper agreement.

 

 

She said the solution is this: to let the repairs go ahead and have things as they were and wait around another year or more until she sells up and moves and 'then I can do what I want with it'.

 

 

She was expecting I agree to that and so I said: 'Ok. Will you be willing to put that in writing?' To which there was a resounding 'No'.

[Clear33]

Try not to get into an argument, as that appears to be where you are heading. You must resolve who is responsible for this boundary wall. You can obtain the boundary plans from land registry to see whether it clarifies ownership.

 

Both neighbours should approach this from the point of view that selling a house with disputes over boundaries knocking off thousands off the value and making it more difficult to sell. Also don't get Solicitors involved, who will want £500 just to take a look.

 

Talk about the issues with the neighbour and see if you can work together, without it costing either more than it should.

 

 

 

Question:

 

 

There is clearly now a dispute. Have had to ask for any further communication to be in writing only. How would this boundary dispute knock thousands off the sale of a house? How would the estate agents know about it or buyers?

[Ethel Street]

How would the estate agents know about it or buyers?

 

Because in the Sellers Information Form you'd have to provide to the buyer's solicitor you have to disclose details about boundaries and any disputes about them.

[unclebulgaria67]

Question:

 

 

There is clearly now a dispute. Have had to ask for any further communication to be in writing only. How would this boundary dispute knock thousands off the sale of a house? How would the estate agents know about it or buyers?

 

When you sell a house, there is a document you complete. I seem to remember one question is about disputes with neighbours. You would have to truthfully answer this, as would your neighbour when they sold their house.

 

Also if you involved your local council or courts it would get recorded.

 

It was more of a warning that the more it becomes a legal dispute involving others, that it could have a negative affect on both neighbours.

 

Perhaps your neighbour is short on money and they cannot afford new works to be done. Therefore they are wanting a straightforward claim through Insurance. As it is a shared wall, perhaps if you agreed to pay for what needs to be done, so that it works for both, then this might be a solution.

[Clear33]

Thanks. Yes I did offer to pay and no my neighbour is not hard up.

[unclebulgaria67]

Have you thought about telling the neighbour that you are going ahead with the works to put the wall back, as it was originally, so that you can have a gate and it provides a safer entrance. Tell the neighbour there is nothing they can do about it. The wall change the neighbour made was not working for either.