Harlands/Xercise4Less

[QuantumBoy]

Hi all,

 

Another victim of Harlands here! Was following slick's outstanding advice and thought everything was going well but having read a few horror stories I thought I'd check what my next move should be.

 

Long story short:

Cancelled my direct debit after 11 months, not 12 (oops). This was the end of April.

 

Got the Harlands "you didn't pay your May instalment so now owe us two months' subscription plus a £25 default fee" letter on 18 May.

 

Panicked, rang around a bit, told the X4L branch on the phone I wanted to cancel, was referred to the X4L membership team (in another office - Leeds?) who agreed that I could cancel if I paid a £29.99 on-the-spot admin fee - I asked for a full breakdown of this admin fee and the best the manager could do was that it was "for contacting Harlands". I thought "hang on, this sounds a bit dodgy", I want to find out more about this...

 

...and Google sent me here!

 

18 June I got the Harlands "you owe us three months' subscription plus a £50 default fee" letter.

 

Checked my direct debit email they sent me and it contains these lines...

You are committing to a single £0.00 admin fee payment and £9.99 per month for a minimum of 11 months. [Only 11 months?! WINNER!]

Your first payment will be collected on or just after 16 June 2014 for an amount of £9.99 which consists of a joining fee of £0.00 and the first monthly payment of £9.99.

Subsequent monthly payments of £9.99 will commence on 16 July 2014 and continue on or just after the same day of each month thereafter.

 

I pinged off this in reply (I hope it is OK! Sent recorded delivery)...

I refer to your letter dated 18 June 2015 regarding my former membership of the Xercise 4 Less gym.

 

I cancelled my direct debit mandate at the end of April 2015 as is my right under the direct debit guarantee. This was adequate notice of my intention to cancel, and was after the 11 month commitment prescribed in the terms of my membership. Please see the attached email from SnapDDA, a trading style of Harlands Services Ltd, confirming the payment schedule of 11 monthly payments from 16 June 2014 to 16 April 2015.

 

As such no further payments are required from me. I expect no further demands from Harlands Services Ltd.

 

Please liaise with Xercise 4 Less to ensure that my cancellation is noted on all relevant systems. Obviously in your role as the administration company for Xercise 4 Less you are subject to the legal precedents stipulating that you process cancellations (see the 2011 High Court case OFT v Ashbourne Management Services Ltd) and have an obligation to act upon such notices.

 

Wasn't expecting to hear anything from them but got a letter saying...

 

We cannot cancel the agreement you have with X4L as they deal with them directly at the branch. You must either contact them in store or over the phone to cancel the agreement. We strongly advise that you get this confirmation in writing...[blah blah blah]

 

You will need to send this information to X4L directly as we do not deal with cancellations.

 

[branch contact details]

 

We will await to hear from you regarding a cancellation.

 

Now I'm confused. Next move, anyone?

 

(Just FYI when I get Harlands off my back I'm totally donating my £25 admin fee to this site - brilliant work, helped me loads already, thank you!)

[fkofilee]

Welcome to CAG...

Youll see that I also pretty much float around here quite a lot.

 

So essentially you have completed your minimum term?

 

Right... Well Slick can answer if you like but Id just send an email saying...

 

Dear Sirs

 

I refer to the correspondence we have recently had. I would like to advise you that i consider my membership terminated.

However, I am willing to pay 1 final payment to equate to the months notice required to cancel the account.

 

Please be advised this offer is open for 14 days. Beyond that date, I will not correspond with you relating to this account and I will deem any further correspondence harassment and will be reported to the relevant authorities.

 

Kind Regards

FKO

 

Remind them that their penalty fees are not enforceable.

[slick132]

Hi QB and welcome to CAG

 

I've not heard of an 11 month agreement before so we may need to play this differently.

 

Checked my direct debit email they sent me and it contains these lines...

 

Was this sent to you by Harlands or by X4Less ?

 

Assuming it was Harlands, I would now write to X4Less by letter saying :-

 

I cancelled my DD mandate at the end of April 2015 after paying the minimum 11 payments to which I agreed.

 

Harlands are now chasing me for membership fees and admin fees which I do not owe.

 

I require that you contact Harlands and instruct them to make no further demands.

 

Send by post and get a free Certificate of Posting from the PO counter.

 

Or take 2 copies of the letter to the gym and get a staff member to sign one copy which you'll keep as proof of delivery. Leave the other copy with the gym staff.

 

Ignore Harlands for now - all they can do is Huff and Puff, and then get CRS to pester you. Of course, CRS are Harlands using CRS paper at the next desk !!

 

It may be that you need to offer a final payment of just £9.99 but we'll see ............

 

[fkofilee]

Hi QB and welcome to CAG

 

I've not heard of an 11 month agreement before so we may need to play this differently.

 

 

 

Was this sent to you by Harlands or by X4Less ?

 

Assuming it was Harlands, I would now write to X4Less by letter saying :-

 

I cancelled my DD mandate at the end of April 2015 after paying the minimum 11 payments to which I agreed.

 

Harlands are now chasing me for membership fees and admin fees which I do not owe.

 

I require that you contact Harlands and instruct them to make no further demands.

 

Send by post and get a free Certificate of Posting from the PO counter.

 

Or take 2 copies of the letter to the gym and get a staff member to sign one copy which you'll keep as proof of delivery. Leave the other copy with the gym staff.

 

Ignore Harlands for now - all they can do is Huff and Puff, and then get CRS to pester you. Of course, CRS are Harlands using CRS paper at the next desk !!

 

It may be that you need to offer a final payment of just £9.99 but we'll see ............

 

Nice one from Slick there.

[QuantumBoy]

Thanks folks, appreciate the help. The email was from SnapDDA who it turns out is just another name for Harlands! I'll get that letter sent off tomorrow and keep you informed. Cheers!

[QuantumBoy]

Update from X4L...

 

Although the minimum number of payments may have been made by your self we still require 30 days written notice of cancellation from yourself in club.

 

Having cancelled your contract will have triggered an automatic charge from Harlands as we cancel down your DD via our head office and Harlands upon written notice of cancellation from yourself.

 

Therefore Harlands will still require the 30 days notice (1 months gym payment) to cancel down completely and stop chasing, this is the cheaper option than the cancelled DD charges.

 

If you need any further explanation please contact me in club.

 

No idea what he's on about there! What's my next move?

[slick132]

Hi QB,

 

Because the agreement was for a minimum of 11 months, and was not described as an 11 month agreement, I think the gym is reasonable to require the 1 month's notice.

 

Next move is to offer to pay £9.99 to settle in full. Letter to Xercise4Less again :-

 

I refer to your letter/email of xxdate.

 

To finalise this matter, I am willing to pay £9.99 to Xercise4Less in full settlement of all that I owe.

 

I will pay you promptly when I have your written confirmation that :-

 

1. You will accept the £9.99 in settlement of all that I owe.

 

2. You will inform Harlands that the matter is closed and they must make no further payment demands.

 

Keep us informed.

 

[QuantumBoy]

So, no response from X4L and I thought this had gone away! And then...

 

Letter from the Harlands-at-another-desk people CRS...

 

Your balance of £104.97 is now due by 4 October 2015.

 

...Under your agreement with Harlands you have promised to pay this debt. If you continue to refuse to honour that commitment Harlands will have no option but to take legal steps to collect the outstanding balance...

 

So the good news that sounds like they consider my gym membership cancelled. The bad news is they are now fishing for as much money as possible. Was considering a letter along the lines of...

 

1. You cannot take any further action on this as the amount is in dispute
   
2. I am willing to make a payment of £9.99 in full and final settlement. This constitutes one month's notice.
   
3. I consider any additional charges from yourselves to be punitive illegal penalties
   

Am I in the right ballpark or should I be doing something else?

 

Cheer in advance,

QB

[QuantumBoy]

OK, this never went away (I kept getting threatening letters and the amount went up and up) and I wanted to give as much information as possible as I have taken legal advice that I think people in a similar situation may find useful.

 

1. The FCA cannot help or investigate Harlands in my case since a) My membership was not a Consumer Credit Agreement (CCA) but a Membership Agreement and therefore unregulated, and b) Harlands' credit license lapsed in late 2015 so they are no longer regulated by the FCA.
   
2. Trading Standards agree that this is dubious practice and certainly sounds unfair, but is within the realms of the contract so they will not intervene. They deem that there is insufficient evidence of charges being large enough to be considered penalty charges.
   
3. Trading Standards recommended going through ADRS resolution services who cannot help as they do not take on consumer issues.
   
4. I have seen no evidence of anyone on here escaping charges. Repeatedly ignoring letters leads to escalation and further charges.
   
5. In my case if I don't pay then the only option is to either take it to court myself (claiming Harlands have breached contract by refusing to cancel my agreement) or let Harlands pass it on to further collections agencies (risking costs and a CCJ in the event that it goes to court).
   
6. This has been going on long enough and it is the opinion of the legal professionals that I have spoken to that it will be cheaper to negotiate a payment with CRS/Harlands than go to court.
   

 

They're total f-ing sc*mbags but they've won here. I rang them and got the £180 fee knocked down to £75. Could have saved myself time, money, and stress just paying half of that straight away, but £75 is far, far cheaper than solicitors/court fees/risk of a CCJ. Yes it's Harlands intimidation tactics, but what they're doing is legal so I have to suck it up.

[slick132]

Hi QB and thanks for the update.

 

We have seen only one single case go to court in the past 5 years or more. And that case was withdrawn when challenged by Defence last year. We continue to support Site Users in challenging Harlands/CRS charges and tactics.

 

If you are happy to have the matter ended by paying, then that's fine.

 

Did you get agreement in writing that the £75 would be accepted by Harlands in full settlement of the matter.