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melmumof3

HFO CAPITAL/services/turnbull CCJ

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Hi melmumof3!

 

Your situation sounds very much like what my father was going through...I believe you read the thread at a early stage and I didnt update is much towards the end because of other commitments.

 

My dad's case was dismissed in the Court and I can tell you that the other posters are right, TR are fighting a losing battle with your case and they know it.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/189806-hfo-turnbull-court-proceedings.html

 

The witness statement and skeleton argument is pretty much what they used including word for word:-

 

"conclusion

the defendants reliance on irrelevant minutiae, and bare denials of sums owed and documents received. is illustrative of her seeking to avoid payment of the debt."

 

Hang on in there, I worked on my dads defence from the fine examples in another posters case (Pank).

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/169400-hfo-services-help-wanted.html

 

In my dads case we focussed on the lack of a valid Credit Agreement and Invalid Notice of Assignment. Its a good starting point but most importantly dont lose hope now - now is the time to stick the boot in!!

 

Good Luck

thankyou dinny for that support.

i shall tomoz look thru these when im in a better frame of mind. if i start reading now, i will have night terrors (stress thing) and no good for anybody.

i feel inbetween a rock and a hard place at the mo. i re looked thru my defence today, and it may aswell be blank pages, just nothing leaps at me to get this skeleton done.

thanks again x

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Hi Mel, we're all still here - please don't panic. Just need the right experts for the right bits! Stay calm.


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Hi mel,

 

I've had a quick read through but - have to confess I dont have time to wade through all the waffle!!

 

Go to fpdm's thread like I told you in the other thread. There's a skeleton there that will do as a starting point.

 

I'm I right on the basic points:

No enforceable agreement

No DN?

 

The objective is to get the summary application thrown out that is all - ie grounds to dispute them.

 

Soooo - you have grounds in the dn and agreement.

 

read the thread I said, take a chill pill (easy for me to say I know). Write a skeleton and post it up

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In the xxxxxxxx County Court

 

 

 

Claim number xxxxxxxxx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Between

 

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxx- Claimant

 

 

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

 

 

xxxxxxxx - Defendant

 

 

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

Witness Statement

 

 

 

 

 

-------------------------------

 

 

 

 

1. I Clivey88 of xxxxxxxxxxxxx am the defendant in this action and make the following statement regarding my defence to the claim made by xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

2. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

 

3. The claimants' particulars of claims disclose no legal cause of action and they are embarrassing to the defendant as the claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised and does not comply or even attempt to comply with CPR part 16.

 

4. It is therefore averred that the Defendant does not know the case that has to be met and the Particulars of Claim neither disclose any cause of action with any reasonable prospect of success and/or are an abuse of the process of this Court and, in compliance with the Civil Procedure Rules can and should be struck out pursuant to part 3.4 of the same

 

 

5. The Defendant neither admits nor denies that he is liable to the Claimant as alleged in the Particulars of Claim, or at all.

 

6. It is averred that the Claimant has failed to serve a valid Notice of Assignment in accordance with section 136(1), of the Law of Property Act 1925, in respect of the alleged debt.

 

The Alleged Agreement

 

7. It is denied that the copy of the agreement referred to in the particulars of claim and containing the defendant’s signature represents a regulated agreement under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”).

 

8. Under the CCA there are certain conditions laid down by parliament which must be complied with if such a consumer credit agreement is to be enforced by the courts

 

9. Firstly, the agreement must contain certain Prescribed terms under regulations made by the Secretary of State under section 60(1) CCA 1974, the regulations referred to are the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553)

 

10. The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553)(“the Regulatons”) and are inter alia: -

A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

1. Number of repayments;

2. Amount of repayments;

3. Frequency and timing of repayments;

4. Dates of repayments;

5. The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

11. It is averred that the agreement referred to in the particulars of claim is deficient of the prescribed terms as is a requirement of schedule 6 of the Regulations and is therefore unenforceable under section 127 (3) of the CCA

 

12. In addition there is case law from the Court of Appeal which confirms the Prescribed terms must be contained within the body of the agreement and not in a separate document. I refer to the judgment of TUCKEY LJ in the case of Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299

"[11] Schedule 1 to the 1983 Regulations sets out the "information to be contained in documents embodying regulated

consumer credit agreements". Some of this information mirrors the terms prescribed by Sch 6, but some does not. Contrasting

the provisions of the two schedules the Judge said:

 

"33 In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement. More detailed requirements, which

are designed to ensure that the debtor is made aware, so far as possible, of specified information (including information contained in the

minimum terms) are to be found in Schedule 1."

 

 

13. If the claimant is to rely on a written agreement then the original agreement should be available for inspection by the court in accordance with CPR Practice Direction 16 paragraph 7.3.

 

14. It is further averred that the agreement referred to in the particulars of claim represent an application for a credit card account and by nature this is a pre-contractual agreement prior to the approval of such a credit card account. Section 59 of the CCA specifically precludes a pre-contractual agreement to be a binding agreement under the CCA.

 

The Default Notice.

15. Service of a default notice is a statutory requirement as laid out in sections 87,88 and 89 CCA and section 87 makes it clear that a default notice must be served before a creditor can seek to terminate the agreement or demand repayment of sums due to a breach of the agreement.

16. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237)

17. It is averred that the default notice referred to in the particulars of claim does not allow the prescribed timeframe of 14 days after service to remedy any breach referred to in said default notice and the defendant puts the claimant to strict proof that the prescribed timeframe has been given.

18. A default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The amount detailed in the Claimant’s claim, includes penalties charges, which are unlawful at Common Law, Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Company Ltd v New Garage and Motor Company Ltd [1915], under The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Failure of a default notice to be accurate invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255)

19. Without a valid default notice, I suggest the claimants case falls flat and cannot proceed and to do so is clearly contrary to the CCA.

20. The Claimant’s claim to be entitled to £xxxxxxx to interest or to any other sum is denied.

 

 

Statement of Truth

 

 

I xxxxxxxxxxx, believe the above statement to be true and factual.

 

 

Signed .....................

 

Date............

 

 

 

is this ok for my witness statement, i think i might have to add more points, just came across this, and now ive to find a skeleton template

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thats pretty much along the right lines - take it you have clivey88 to thank;)

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thats pretty much along the right lines - take it you have clivey88 to thank;)

 

yes i do, !

 

is a skeleton defence the same statement??? im confused by all the terminologies.....

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i done the witness statement, just need to do a skeleton defence.

had some more paperwork from the moneys today, they have forgot to submit with there skeleton arguement and witness statement, a copy of the statement of acount. when ive checked through, on the previous statements, at the end of statement it says 'balance to roxburge' now on the new copy of statements this has been changed to ' balance to HFO'.......mean anything??? maybe they dont want to confuse the judge lol...

 

in my amended defence, when im going throught the points and paperwork i need to rely on, it says 'defendant produces an extract from the registrar of companies which shows that there is no company called HFO capital ltd registered in england and wales, but that there is a company registered as HFO services ltd, the name of the original claimant'...- where do i find this extract???i think thats all for now..:-S

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ok, ive printed off these CC act 1974 for what im relying on...

s60(1), s61(1), s62, s87(1), s88(1 and 2)....i hope this is correct. now going to search for the cases referred to in my amended defence.

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im printing out the court cases referred to in my defence too... do i need to send copies to TR and the court? or do i only need to have it as a reference to hand judge on the day of reckoning?

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sorry for the drivvle today, but im trying to find some sections in consumer credit (agreements) regulations 1983 terms stating credit limit etc.. ive referred to it in my defence, but cant find it on google the bit inm referring to. also papr 3 © of s 2 of consumer credit (enforcement, default and termination notices) regs.... can anyone help me find them??

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mel

 

sorry I haven't been around the last couple of days. Emergency with old parents.

 

I think you will find most of the regulations in the statutes library at the top of the page on CAG. Look up article 25 which gives you the links. For company information, try www.companieshouse.gov.uk.


Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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thanks docman

 

ive found most of it on google, will do the companies house next.

 

do i need to send all that to the court and TR???? one of the cases is 16 pages long.....or do i just take into court with me?

 

ive finished my skeleton defence, will you be so kind to look over it for me, ive printed it and have printed a copy for court and TR.

 

In the xxxxxx County Court

Claim Number xxxxx

 

 

 

HFO Capital ltd Claimant

and

 

 

Mxxxxxx

Defendant

 

 

 

 

 

SKELETON DEFENCE

 

 

 

The Defendant neither admits or denies any allegation made in the Claimants Particulars of Claim.

 

The assignee HFO Capital Ltd purchased the defendants acount on 26th March 2009.

 

 

 

NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT

 

 

The defendant denies that Notice of Assignment (exhibit HFO/ "E") was sent by Marks and Spencer.

Further, the date stated on the Notice of Assignment produced in evidence by the Claimant is 30th July 2008 whereas the date of the assignment was 29th September 2006 according to the 'account sale agreement' now producing in evidence by the Claimant.

 

 

CONSUMER CREDIT AGREEMENT

 

 

The claim is for monies due under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

The Claimant stated in the original Particulars of Claim that the alleged Account is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Any such regualted agreement must be signed in the prescribed manner both by debtor and the creditor or owner,embody all the terms of the agreement and be in such a state that all its terms are readily legible when presented for signature.

The prescribed terms must be within the agreement and notin a separate document for it to be compliant with s60(1).

The Defendant denies that the 'Agreement' produced by the claimant is an agreement within the terms of the Act.

 

 

DEFAULT

 

The defendant has defaulted in his payment and is in breach of payment clause of the agreement

 

This particular is denied.

It is neither admitted or denied that any default notice in the prescribed format was ever received.

The defendant asserts that the document exhibited by the Claimant as a Default Notice is invalid.

By statute, to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both scope and nature of breach and include accurate figure required to remedy any such breach.

The date before which any breach can be remedied or compensation paid, must not be less than 14 days after the date of service of the default notice.

The date given in (exhibit HFO/"D") by which the date could be remedied was "within 7 days of this letter" which is less than the 14 days required.

Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice, but is an unlawful rescission of contract which would prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt.

 

AND the DEFENDANT

 

Asserts that the Claimant has failed to produce a copy of a valid Consumer Credit Agreement and a copy of a valid Default notice which conform to the 1974 Act and also a Notice of Assignment required by the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

Seeks an order that in view of the matters pleaded above, the court gives consideration to excercising its powers under CPR part 3.4 to strike out the Claimants' statement of case as disclosing no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim and that any claim cannot succeed.

 

 

 

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

 

 

The Defendant believes that the facts contained in this skeleton defence are true

SIGNED………………………………………………… ..

Dated 21/11/2009

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Mel - call the original creditor on Monday, first thing, and demand to know to whom and when the debt was sold. You may get a surprise...


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Mel - call the original creditor on Monday, first thing, and demand to know to whom and when the debt was sold. You may get a surprise...

 

We know all too well how much the OC can let on when pushed...

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HOW ABOUT ADDING SOMETHING LIKE BELOW IN THE SKELETON STATEMENT

We would like for the trial judge to consider procceedings by virtue of THIS COMPANIES use of a forged instrument and also consider that this company who have systematicly and knowingly been signing and filing false or fraudulent claims in different names some of the names which do not exist or have been struck of the company house registrations and records in the UK.

the company are trying to gain commercially by causing deliberate confusion in names and by virtue of the forged instruments knowing the same to be forged and making FALSE orders for the payments of xxxxxxx,; feloniously demanding or trying to obtain monies and other articles or property with the intent to defraud;

 

 

Name & Registered Office:

HFO SERVICES LIMITED

KINGS PARADE

LOWER COOMBE STREET

CROYDON

SURREY

CR0 1AA

Company No. 05120067

 

 

 

 

Status: Active

Date of Incorporation: 05/05/2004

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

 

Company Type: Private Limited Company

Nature of Business (SIC(03)):

7487 - Other business activities

 

Accounting Reference Date: 31/12

Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2008 (FULL)

Next Accounts Due: 30/09/2010

Last Return Made Up To: 05/05/2009

Next Return Due: 02/06/2010

 

Last Members List: 05/05/2009

 

Previous Names:

Date of change Previous Name

03/08/2004 ROXBURGHE (UK) LIMITED

16/07/2004 HFO SERVICES LIMITED

 

UK Establishment Details

There are no UK Establishments associated with this company.THE DENIAL TO COMPANIES HOUSE REGARDING OVERSEA DATA CONNECTED TO THIS COMPANY IS AS FOLLOWS

HFO CAPITAL LIMITED

West Byfleet Surrey,

Address: PO Box 342, Lavender Park Rd, West Byfleet, Surrey KT14 6YX

Telephone: 0203 024 8500

Oversea Company Info

There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.

THE DENIAL TO COMPANIES HOUSE REGARDING OVERSEA DATA CONNECTED TO THIS COMPANY IS AS FOLLOWS

Name: HFO Services Ltd

Also Known As: HFO Services Ltd Debt Collectors,

HFO Services Ltd , HFO Services West Byfleet,

ALSO AT

Address: 165 The Broadway, Merton, London SW19 1NE

Phone: 0208 417 8100

Category: Services

HE GOES BY THE PROFILE CAR MONKEY

Qyper since: 11-01-2008

My Businesses on Qype:

HFO Services

Turnbull Rutherford is regulated by the Law Society with number 441908.

WITH THE SAME ADDRESS AS HFO

Turnbull Rutherford Limited is registered in England with company number 05717402 and registered office at 165 The Broadway, Wimbledon SW19 1NE.

 

Type: Financial Services

HFO Services India,6B Building No. 6, DLF Cyber City, DLF Phase-3, Gurgaon-122002, India.

Telephone: 0203 024 8500

Fax: 844 555 3400

 

Fax: 844 555 3400

Email: enquiries@hfoservices.com

HFO SERVICES INDIA PVT LTD  Review, Job Satisfaction, Employer Reviews By Employees, Company Reviews, Company Ratings - MouthShut.com

BELOW FROM ALIBABA.COM WEBSITE

HFO Services India Pvt. Ltd.

Address:

D-34

Sector-33

Inforcity

Gurgoan-122001

Company Name: HFO Services India Pvt. Ltd

Business Type: Trading Company

Product/Service

(We Sell): selling their non-performing consumer debt

Product/Service

(We Buy): Not Provided

Company Name: HFO Services India Pvt. Ltd

Street Address: PO Box 342 Lavender Park Rd West Byfleet, KT14 6YX

Country/Region: India

Telephone: 91-124 4205241

Vijay Agrawal

Title

Finance Manager at HFO Services India Private Limited

Demographic info

Financial Services | Delhi Area, India

Current: Finance Manager at HFO Services India Private Limited

Turnbull Rutherford is regulated by the Law Society with number 441908.

 

Turnbull Rutherford Limited is registered in England with company number 05717402 and registered office at 165 The Broadway, Wimbledon SW19 1NE.

BBC - Radio 4 You and Yours -HFO Services Ltd

UK business credit reports, risk scores, annual account and company filings online from UK Data Ltd"


http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Mel - call the original creditor on Monday, first thing, and demand to know to whom and when the debt was sold. You may get a surprise...

Donkey

 

a few weeks ago, i rang M and S, as i was unsure about the date on the notice of assignment.

In front of me, i have a letter from m and s, stating my phone call conversation. it says ' i am writing as requested to confirm that the above numbered account was 'sold' to HFO service on 30th June 2008 (my NOA is dated 30/7/08..... ) and HFO added in the POC it was purchased from the OC on 26th March 09.....i was just looking through my paperwork, before i came online, and was thinking, surely i HAVE to add this somewhere in my skeleton?? or witness statement... ive printed all copies, how would i word this into the skeleton. patrick, thankyou for that i shall add that somewhere, i have already printed off the page from companies house.....:rolleyes:

Edited by melmumof3

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HOW ABOUT ADDING SOMETHING LIKE BELOW IN THE SKELETON STATEMENT

We would like for the trial judge to consider procceedings by virtue of THIS COMPANIES use of a forged instrument and also consider that this company who have systematicly and knowingly been signing and filing false or fraudulent claims in different names some of the names which do not exist or have been struck of the company house registrations and records in the UK.

the company are trying to gain commercially by causing deliberate confusion in names and by virtue of the forged instruments knowing the same to be forged and making FALSE orders for the payments of xxxxxxx,; feloniously demanding or trying to obtain monies and other articles or property with the intent to defraud;

 

 

Name & Registered Office:

HFO SERVICES LIMITED

KINGS PARADE

LOWER COOMBE STREET

CROYDON

SURREY

CR0 1AA

Company No. 05120067

 

 

 

 

Status: Active

Date of Incorporation: 05/05/2004

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

 

Company Type: Private Limited Company

Nature of Business (SIC(03)):

7487 - Other business activities

 

Accounting Reference Date: 31/12

Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2008 (FULL)

Next Accounts Due: 30/09/2010

Last Return Made Up To: 05/05/2009

Next Return Due: 02/06/2010

 

Last Members List: 05/05/2009

 

Previous Names:

Date of change Previous Name

03/08/2004 ROXBURGHE (UK) LIMITED

16/07/2004 HFO SERVICES LIMITED

 

UK Establishment Details

There are no UK Establishments associated with this company.THE DENIAL TO COMPANIES HOUSE REGARDING OVERSEA DATA CONNECTED TO THIS COMPANY IS AS FOLLOWS

HFO CAPITAL LIMITED

West Byfleet Surrey,

Address: PO Box 342, Lavender Park Rd, West Byfleet, Surrey KT14 6YX

Telephone: 0203 024 8500

Oversea Company Info

There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.

THE DENIAL TO COMPANIES HOUSE REGARDING OVERSEA DATA CONNECTED TO THIS COMPANY IS AS FOLLOWS

Name: HFO Services Ltd

Also Known As: HFO Services Ltd Debt Collectors,

HFO Services Ltd , HFO Services West Byfleet,

ALSO AT

Address: 165 The Broadway, Merton, London SW19 1NE

Phone: 0208 417 8100

Category: Services

HE GOES BY THE PROFILE CAR MONKEY

Qyper since: 11-01-2008

My Businesses on Qype:

HFO Services

Turnbull Rutherford is regulated by the Law Society with number 441908.

WITH THE SAME ADDRESS AS HFO

Turnbull Rutherford Limited is registered in England with company number 05717402 and registered office at 165 The Broadway, Wimbledon SW19 1NE.

 

Type: Financial Services

HFO Services India,6B Building No. 6, DLF Cyber City, DLF Phase-3, Gurgaon-122002, India.

Telephone: 0203 024 8500

Fax: 844 555 3400

 

Fax: 844 555 3400

Email: enquiries@hfoservices.com

HFO SERVICES INDIA PVT LTD* Review, Job Satisfaction, Employer Reviews By Employees, Company Reviews, Company Ratings - MouthShut.com

BELOW FROM ALIBABA.COM WEBSITE

HFO Services India Pvt. Ltd.

Address:

D-34

Sector-33

Inforcity

Gurgoan-122001

Company Name: HFO Services India Pvt. Ltd

Business Type: Trading Company

Product/Service

(We Sell): selling their non-performing consumer debt

Product/Service

(We Buy): Not Provided

Company Name: HFO Services India Pvt. Ltd

Street Address: PO Box 342 Lavender Park Rd West Byfleet, KT14 6YX

Country/Region: India

Telephone: 91-124 4205241

Vijay Agrawal

Title

Finance Manager at HFO Services India Private Limited

Demographic info

Financial Services | Delhi Area, India

Current: Finance Manager at HFO Services India Private Limited

Turnbull Rutherford is regulated by the Law Society with number 441908.

 

Turnbull Rutherford Limited is registered in England with company number 05717402 and registered office at 165 The Broadway, Wimbledon SW19 1NE.

BBC - Radio 4 You and Yours -HFO Services Ltd

UK business credit reports, risk scores, annual account and company filings online from UK Data Ltd"

 

patrick, where could i add that into my skeleton....??

if i add this now, will it be changing my defence at all???? as i havent mentioned this before in my amended defence..:-|

 

 

 

i also cant find some of the cases referred to in my defence, not even on the library on here. cant find

Van lynn develepments v pelias construction

wf harrison and co v burke and another, and few of the consumer credit regs.. will it matter? the CC regs dont make a whole lot of sense to me personally

Edited by melmumof3

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SKELETON DEFENCE

 

 

 

The Defendant neither admits or denies any allegation made in the Claimants Particulars of Claim.

 

The assignee HFO Capital Ltd purchased the Defendants' account on 26th March 2009.

 

 

 

NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT

 

 

The Defendant denies that Notice of Assignment (exhibit HFO/ "E") was sent by Marks and Spencer.

Further, the date stated on the Notice of Assignment produced in evidence by the Claimant is 30th July 2008 whereas the date of the assignment was 29th September 2006 according to the 'account sale agreement' now producing in evidence by the Claimant.

The Claimant clearly states in the Particulars of Claim, that the alleged account was purchased on 26th March 2009.

 

 

The Defendant is trying to find the right words to go here???????? with regards to the letter i received from M and S stating the date they sold debt to HFO as being 30 june 08......HELPPPPP anyone??

 

 

Me again!! i know i know..... lol

i just cant think of the words to go here....

 

 

And is it too late to be thinking of sending a copy of the letter to HFO, case is 10 days away now.

 

i want to go to court office monday, as off, so really would appreciate the advice. im sending to court and TR, witness statement, and skeleton defence so far..... what else please??.....im physically drained, its taken a lot out of me this has, ive work tomoz, and im not sure i will sleep too good tonight...

Edited by melmumof3

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SKELETON DEFENCE

 

 

 

The Defendant neither admits or denies any allegation made in the Claimants Particulars of Claim.

 

The assignee HFO Capital Ltd purchased the Defendants' account on 26th March 2009.

 

 

 

NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT

 

 

The Defendant denies that Notice of Assignment (exhibit HFO/ "E") was sent by Marks and Spencer.

Further, the date stated on the Notice of Assignment produced in evidence by the Claimant is 30th July 2008 whereas the date of the assignment was 29th September 2006 according to the 'account sale agreement' now producing in evidence by the Claimant.

The Claimant clearly states in the Particulars of Claim, that the alleged account was purchased on 26th March 2009.

 

 

It is averred that the Claimant's case is disingenous, to say the least, as it has been confirmed in writing by the original creditor that the date the account was sold on 30 June 2008. This is clearly in contradiction to the Claimant's assertions and therefore offers reasonable doubt to be cast on their disclosure.

 

 

Me again!! i know i know..... lol

i just cant think of the words to go here....

 

 

And is it too late to be thinking of sending a copy of the letter to HFO, case is 10 days away now.

 

i want to go to court office monday, as off, so really would appreciate the advice. im sending to court and TR, witness statement, and skeleton defence so far..... what else please??.....im physically drained, its taken a lot out of me this has, ive work tomoz, and im not sure i will sleep too good tonight..

 

I'm in exactly the same boat as you with HFO/TR... so you are not alone. I might be paying them a visit sometime in the future under a CPR 31.3 request to view the ORIGINAL documentation which SHOULD have been attached to the Claim Form... they are trying to wriggle out of though.

 

.

 

See above comments in red :-)

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I agree with what vjohn as added. I think that the court would look unfavourably on what patrick suggests at this juncture. A few suggestions in red

 

thanks docman

 

ive found most of it on google, will do the companies house next.

 

do i need to send all that to the court and TR???? one of the cases is 16 pages long.....or do i just take into court with me?

 

ive finished my skeleton defence, will you be so kind to look over it for me, ive printed it and have printed a copy for court and TR.

 

In the xxxxxx County Court

Claim Number xxxxx

 

 

 

HFO Capital ltd Claimant

and

 

 

Mxxxxxx

Defendant

 

 

 

 

 

SKELETON DEFENCE

 

 

 

The Defendant neither admits or denies any allegation made in the Claimants Particulars of Claim.

 

The assignee HFO Capital Ltd purchased the defendants account on 26th March 2009.

 

 

 

NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT

 

 

The defendant is prepared to swear on oath that no Notice of Assignment (exhibit HFO/ "E") was ever received from Marks and Spencer.

Furthermore the date stated on the Notice of Assignment produced in evidence by the Claimant is 30th July 2008 whereas the date of the assignment was 29th September 2006 according to the 'account sale agreement' now producing in evidence by the Claimant.

 

 

CONSUMER CREDIT AGREEMENT

 

 

The claim is for monies due under an alleged agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

The Claimant stated in the original Particulars of Claim that the alleged Account is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Any such regulated agreement must be signed in the prescribed manner both by debtor and the creditor or owner,embody all the terms of the agreement and be in such a state that all its terms are readily legible when presented for signature.

The prescribed terms must be within the agreement and not in a separate document for it to be compliant with s60(1).

The Defendant denies that the 'Agreement' produced by the claimant is an agreement within the terms of the Act and puts the claimant to strict proof that they are in possession of am original agreement which is compliant with and enforceable under the terms of the Act.

 

 

DEFAULT

 

The claimant avers that the defendant has defaulted in his payment and is in breach of payment clause of the agreement. It is neither admitted or denied that any default notice in the prescribed format in accordance with section 87(1) of the Act was ever received and puts the claimant to strict proof that a compliant default notice with the meaning of the Act as ever received by the defendant.

The defendant asserts that the document exhibited by the Claimant as a Default Notice does not constitute a valid default notice within the meaning of the Act.

By statute -which?, to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both scope and nature of breach and include accurate figure required to remedy any such breach.

The date before which any breach can be remedied or compensation paid, must not be less than 14 days after the date of service of the default notice.

The date given in (exhibit HFO/"D") by which the date could be remedied was "within 7 days of this letter" which is less than the 14 days required-required where?.

Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice, but my constitute an unlawful rescission of contract which would prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt - if you want to direct the court then you must give case law precedent otherwise the dj will see you as disrespectful of the court.

 

AND the DEFENDANT

 

Asserts that the Claimant has failed to produce a true copy of a valid Consumer Credit Agreement and a true copy of a valid Default notice which conform to the 1974 Act and also a Notice of Assignment required by the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

Seeks an order that in view of the matters pleaded above, the court gives consideration to exercising its powers under CPR part 3.4 to strike out the Claimants' statement of case as disclosing no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim and that any claim cannot succeed.

 

 

 

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

 

 

The Defendant believes that the facts contained in this skeleton defence are true

SIGNED………………………………………………… ..

Dated 21/11/2009

 

 

This will probably do for a skeleton but you really need to up the level of section quotes for the act and as many case law references as possible.

 

Remember that the dj likely as not knows little about consumer law

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It's confusing that a genuine letter from M&S says they sold it to HFO Services? But HFO Services don't buy the debts - HFO Capital does, and the claimant is HFO Capital. They've b*ggered up their forged letters again!

 

I would suggest you call M&S again first thing Monday - try and record it - and find out again exactly to whom and when the sale was made. Belt and braces - this could be important.

 

The stuff about their trading situation is irrelevant to your case - we need to stick to the law.

Edited by DonkeyB

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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It's confusing that a genuine letter from M&S says they sold it to HFO Services? But HFO Services don't buy the debts - HFO Capital does, and the claimant is HFO Capital. They've b*ggered up their forged letters again!

 

I would suggest you call M&S again first thing Monday - try and record it - and find out again exactly to whom and when the sale was made. Belt and braces - this could be important.

 

The stuff about their trading situation is irrelevant to your case - we need to stick to the law.

 

easiest way to record it would be via skype

 

sure its not one collecting on behalf of the other? Eg westcott collect on behalf of wescot rbs. and many others do likewise.

 

NB - it is not ilegal or inadmissible to record your own conversations without telling the other person - heard a liable lawyer clarify this on radio 5 after that soldier's mom recorded brown.

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Decisions

van lyn is near bottom of the page see here

patrickq1


http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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hi guys,

just got home from work.....

 

ive read all the posts, now im confused again!... lol

 

hungry bear,

the skeleton is basically a shortened version of my amended defence (is it not meant to be????), ive never done this before, i didnt know i should be adding the cases i have referred to in the defence (when does the DJ refer to my defence? will they just go on whats in the skeleton???? ). why is there so much crap and paperwork saying the same ol same ol???

 

im getting myself in a right tizzy, awake til 4 AM this morn. i need to relax, this is really worrying me, and im up against the clock now. im off tomoz, so was hoping to get everything posted and to the court, so i can then just wait for the day.

 

donkey, will ring M and S tomoz, they were quite helpful with me last time, when i spoke to them last time they did say they know HFO services as 'roxburghe' to them last time, but their letter says HFO services bought debt.

 

hoping someone can help me tonight, like im sure youve nothing better to do on a sunday eve

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