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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 160 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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HFO CAPITAL/services/turnbull CCJ


melmumof3
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It is brief and certainly does the job well enough. Many would be less polite to this firm. That said, there is always the posibility that HFO would use an impolite letter against you. It doesn't hurt to stay polite even though you may have to grit your teeth. I certainly do when dealing this bunch. I suggest something along the lines of

 

"Dear Sirs

 

I enclose herewith my Amended Defence which has been filed with the Court to answer the points in the Court's Order of 7 October.

 

I have considered the Particulars of Claim and the documents you have belated supplied. I do not believe that the documents substantiate your claim and that you have no prospect of success. I invite you to discontinue the claim to avoid a futher waste of the Court's time.

 

Yours faithfully....."

 

Doc

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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getting all very stressed, havent got a clue what is said in a court room, a month to go. what do i need to take with me, and do I just make sure i know all my defence word perfectly?? sooo sooo scared, not sleeping very well at all:-(

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Hi melmumof3 please dont lose sleep over these scumbags! I am following your thread because I too am being chased by these muppets HFO. Yet to produce a credit agreement only an application form. That probably wont stop em though. Good luck and I'm sure all the caggers are routing for you!!

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hi guys

ive had a 'general form of judgement or order' letter from court.

its says

upon reading the court file IT IS ORDERED THAT

Unless Claimant pays hearing fee by 4pm 11th november, the claim be struck out and trial be vacated. Dated 28th october 2009.

the date on this letter is 2nd nov 2009.

as you know i wrote last week that HFO had sent me papers they had sent to court, apologising for 7 day delay and said they had attached fee on 28th october. Im confused againnnnn.........

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Best to check with the court. If they have paid the fee, albeit late and it crossed with the order, the court will let it move forward. The court should have now had enough time to process any payment, so worth a call.

 

Otherwise, let's hope they time themselves out...

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Well, you know now that they told a blatant fib about when it was paid. More evidence, if you needed it, of the kind of people you are dealing with. Typical - right, sleeves rolled up... time to see off these hellbound bottom-feeding pieces of sh.....

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Hi mel

 

The Court Order probably crossed with HFO's cheque. It's now going to be a waiting game for you to see if HFO respond to your amended defence. But don't expect a quick reply from them. It's all part of the mind games they play. What you must do is to put the case OUT of your mind for the next couple of weeks if you can. Easy to say I know.

 

If you can't put the case out of mind, then have a look at the excellent sticky above on the basics of consumer credit litigation. Well worth a read to reassure you.

 

About 10 days before the hearing you should put your thoughts about what you will want to say in court down in writing. I'm suggesting something that in larger cases is known as a 'skeleton argument'. The court can order a skeleton to be lodged in fast track cases but I don't think they do so in Small Claims cases. Someone more knowledgable may know better.

 

Once you get into court, you should read the skeleton out loud, as your speech. You just need to put down the basics of your defence but in your own words. At points, you can make a note of where you refer to a statute or regulation. Similarily, at points where you refer to a legal case, you can make a note to hand a copy of the case to the judge. As DB says, sleeves rolled up to deal with these sh##s!

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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Hi mel

 

The Court Order probably crossed with HFO's cheque. It's now going to be a waiting game for you to see if HFO respond to your amended defence. But don't expect a quick reply from them. It's all part of the mind games they play. What you must do is to put the case OUT of your mind for the next couple of weeks if you can. Easy to say I know.

 

If you can't put the case out of mind, then have a look at the excellent sticky above on the basics of consumer credit litigation. Well worth a read to reassure you.

 

About 10 days before the hearing you should put your thoughts about what you will want to say in court down in writing. I'm suggesting something that in larger cases is known as a 'skeleton argument'. The court can order a skeleton to be lodged in fast track cases but I don't think they do so in Small Claims cases. Someone more knowledgable may know better.

 

Once you get into court, you should read the skeleton out loud, as your speech. You just need to put down the basics of your defence but in your own words. At points, you can make a note of where you refer to a statute or regulation. Similarily, at points where you refer to a legal case, you can make a note to hand a copy of the case to the judge. As DB says, sleeves rolled up to deal with these sh##s!

will i find the relevant things i need on cag?.... or just google these things ive referred to in my defence?....im soooo scared. im really worried ill look and make a complete prat of myself.

ill make a start on it i think as i like to be well prepared really. i need to know my stuff, and have a month to do i guess.

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ive been reading the points made in my defence, the court cases referred to, the points of the relevant consumer credit act etc... do i print off all these things??? i just dont understand any of it really, im reading these words some make sense i guess. im physically drained and feel sick and just want to cry...

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have spent 2 hrs reading Pank's won case with hfo (banging headache now)... is it similar to my case? i was trying to find somewhere i can sort out a skeleton, but i still have no clue where to begin.

i just need reassurance ive done everything correct so far with regards to this.

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mel

 

You have done everything you need to for now. Just relax and stop worrying.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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ive been reading the points made in my defence, the court cases referred to, the points of the relevant consumer credit act etc... do i print off all these things??? i just dont understand any of it really, im reading these words some make sense i guess. im physically drained and feel sick and just want to cry...

 

 

the points of the relevant consumer credit act etc

 

yes you can print the relevant points/acts and use them for reference in case the judge has to look them up just hand your copies to him her and also for your own peice of mind you can read the points to note and memorise them and try to make sense of them this will give you tremendous courage when its needed dont be afraid HFO will likely not turn up and if they dont or even if they do you have enough data to help you through the proccess

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  • 2 weeks later...

hi all

 

need some advice/support

cakking it today, feeling very depressed, just cant seem to get through this without worrying constantly.

 

have had the witness statement and skeleton arguement from TR today.

its stating claimant HFO capital, it begins witness statement by saying alastair turnbull is a solicitor conduct of matter on behalf of claimant ' hfo services ltd' (confused already)...

it states a copy of first default notice has not been supplied to me. it says a default notice was sent by claimant in 27th march 09.

it says assignment date of 30 july 08.

it goes on to say tha paragraph 3 of notice of allocation dated 7th oct 09, ordered me to file a fully particularised defence in light of documentation already disclosed by the claimant. the defendant purported to comply with the order by serving an amended defence on 29th october 09.

 

the skeleton argument says

the defendants amended defence raises several issues

notice of assignment

the executed credit agreement

monthly repayment

the default notice

 

'the notice of assignment and default notice unequivocally state that hfo capital is the assignee of the account and that further queries and payments are to be made to hfo services (the assignees agents)'

they state s.136 of the law of property act 1925

 

it goes on to say the

' defendant relies upon s.61 of the CC act in asserting that the prescribed terms to be incorporated within one document, signed by both parties'

its says ' the signatue box of credit application states, this is an agreement regulated by CC act 1974, sign only if you want to be legally bound by its terms'

' due to prescribed terms clearly being incorporated, any issue of enforceability under s.127(3) of the act, for non compliance with s.60(1) is misconceived.

 

default

defendant asserts that as she was not given 14 days, as opposed to 7, to remedy her breach of agreement, the DN is invalid and amounts to unlawful rescission of the contract which prevents the court from enforcing debt. goes on to say about the last time ive paid, and says

' defendant has since shown no intention to remedy her breach of agreement. to argue that had a further seven days been given she would have remedied the breach, is wholly without merit.'

 

conclusion

the defendants reliance on irrelevant minutiae, and bare denials of sums owed and documents received. is illustrative of her seeking to avoid payment of the debt.

 

 

i hope this all makes sense, ive not typed it all out, shattered me what ive have typed!..

i havent done my skeleton defence yet, and do i need to do a witness statement, and do i need to take this to the court soon????? im really really scaredddd.......HEEELLPPP please x

Edited by melmumof3
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hi all

being taken to court by HFO on the 2nd dec. i have a thread 'HFO sent court papers today', and wondered if someone could help me do my skeleton defence as ive no clue where to begin. ive submitted an amended defence, and understand a skeleton defence is a brief version of the main defence, but i cant seem to find a template to see how to begin it.

 

do i need to do a witness statement, and do i need to take these to the court office before the hearing date?? am new to this, this is my first time in court ever, and really at a loss how it works...

 

would be grateful if some one can help, im a bit stessed and quite scared:-(

 

thankyou in advance

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Hi Melmum,

I have just had a hearing for a Summary Judgement and was sent a huge bundle with a Witness Statement by the other side and due to lack of time, my 'bundle' comprised of two pages...

 

In order for anybody to help you can you post up some more details and then I'm sure one of the more experienced Caggers will be able to help you some more.

 

Just to put your mind at rest, the hearing I went to was all very civilised and not half as scary as I thought it would be.

 

I'll keep checking in to see how you get on.

 

Cheers

fdpm

I'm a L-Plate cagger - new at all this but determined to learn as much as I can, to help as many others as I can, and to fight back as often as I can!:-x

Any help or advice from me is offered in good faith, based on my knowledge and experience gained either from here or from my own cases. I am NOT a legal expert. There are several other CAG members and the site team who are much better qualified than me. Please do not make any decisions based on my advice alone.

Donate as much as you can to this site as often as you can! We need to keep on helping each other.

 

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Hi melmumof3!

 

Your situation sounds very much like what my father was going through...I believe you read the thread at a early stage and I didnt update is much towards the end because of other commitments.

 

My dad's case was dismissed in the Court and I can tell you that the other posters are right, TR are fighting a losing battle with your case and they know it.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/189806-hfo-turnbull-court-proceedings.html

 

The witness statement and skeleton argument is pretty much what they used including word for word:-

 

"conclusion

the defendants reliance on irrelevant minutiae, and bare denials of sums owed and documents received. is illustrative of her seeking to avoid payment of the debt."

 

Hang on in there, I worked on my dads defence from the fine examples in another posters case (Pank).

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/169400-hfo-services-help-wanted.html

 

In my dads case we focussed on the lack of a valid Credit Agreement and Invalid Notice of Assignment. Its a good starting point but most importantly dont lose hope now - now is the time to stick the boot in!!

 

Good Luck

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