Gjindancer Vs Barclays ***WON***

[LEECHTHEBREACH]

Pkea I find that highly amuzing!!!!!!!!!!!!

Professor Bill well put, I like the advanced maths!

Gindancer e-mail your man with the spready file and tell him to type in the figures off your sheet that you sent him!!!!!!!!

Leech

[gjindancer]

OK fair point I actually was planning to send him a blank one and telling him to enter the figures himself!

 

I do actually have a rough idea of the workings out myself, - thanks Bill-K for the clarification! But I guess what I relly need is to find the legal bit that talks about interest on penalties to back myself up - I should research more...

[bill-k]

Professor Bill well put, I like the advanced maths!

!!!

 

You've got mail, Dan.

BTW, you've probably read this thread, but if not, here it is:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/6964-spreadsheet-interest.html

[LEECHTHEBREACH]

Or send him Bill,s photo (the large one) and say this is the professor he needs to work it out, or the one he,ll get a visit from unless they pay up!!!!!!!

[dpick]

OK fair point I actually was planning to send him a blank one and telling him to enter the figures himself!

 

I do actually have a rough idea of the workings out myself, - thanks Bill-K for the clarification! But I guess what I relly need is to find the legal bit that talks about interest on penalties to back myself up - I should research more...

 

Hi gjindancer these twits know all about CAG they can register and get the spreadsheet themselves and then enter your figures themselves they are just delaying tactics.

 

dpick:mad:

[gizitbak]

Hi gjindancer...you wrote:

 

"However from a broader perspective, what we all are doing on this forum is and should be open and transparent, and the equations used to work out the interest should be reasonable and available for all to see.

 

While he may try to debunk my unlawfully charged interest claim from the equations or spreadsheet, I'f I don't provide him the equation, then I am not being as cooperative as I could be in the eyes of the law?"

 

I know where your coming from mate, but don't forget, they deal with interest every day of the week. They could and would tie me in knots with stuff like this very easily.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that the banks are trawling this site and others like it for any chink they can find to confuse the issues. Don't fall for it.

 

Should the banks argue about interest on penalties let them prove it. Have they told you what the interest should be or how they worked it out?

 

Personally, I think it is a bl***y liberty. If you hadn't have been charged any penalties in the first place there wouldn't be anything to calculate.

Should you go to court, perhaps the judge will see it this way too.

 

Finally, only deal with them through the post. You can then show the people on this site what was written and get better help. I for one would be very interested to see how they work the interest on penalty charges out. (And justify it).

[dar£n]

THEY ARE A BANK WITH HIGHLY QUALIFIED ACCOUNTANTS AND COMPUTER SYSTEMS THAT CALCULATE INTEREST AND COMPOUNDS ETC ALL DAY LONG. TELL HIM TO ASK THEM.

 

Why are you still talking to him.

If he thinks its wrong, let him tell the Judge why and explain how they calculate the charges. (Which they wont)

 

Just let it progress through court and take its course

PKea hits the nail on the head here,

You are taking THEM to court not the other way around, just tell him, if he fails to agree then you will simply continue and you can discuss it in the court room and let the judge decide......YOU WIN!

[mcuth]

Hi Dan

 

It appears that the problem Barclays have is with the reclaiming of overdraft interest paid, not the 8% statutory interest, is that right?

 

The concept is simple - when Barclays have charged you overdraft interest, they have charged it on your full overdrawn balance. However, if the bank hadn't debited unlawful charges from your account, you wouldn't have been overdrawn by so much (if at all) and therefore the interest charged wouldn't have been as much. So, what the spreadsheet does is work out how much you would have been overdrawn (if at all) if the charges hadn't been debited, and then calculates what proportion of the overdraft interest charged was due to the unlawful charges debited to the account.

 

Bill explains the formula pretty much perfectly in this post, and I can confirm that the spreadsheet you're using calculates the amounts correctly.

 

You're reclaiming this proportion of overdraft interest charged because it shouldn't have been charged in the first place, and you're entitled to be put back in the financial position you would've been in if it hadn't been for the unlawful charges. Of course, as you've issued court proceedings, you're also entitled to claim the statutory 8% on this interest charged.

 

Regarding 8% statutory interest, if Barclays have a problem with that, then this page from HMCS explains it really well:

How to make a claim

Handily, it provides a calculation in case they can't work that out

 

Now, I don't think there's any requirement at all for you to email Barclays a copy of your spreadsheet - I reckon they're just trying to play games and imply doubt over the figures involved - especially as you'll have been completely open by including a printed copy of the sheets with your N1 claim form. However, if you want to send it, then I don't think it's going to harm anyone else claiming, the calculations are valid and perfectly justifiable.

 

Remember, the hearing date on Friday is to your advantage and to Barclays' disadvantage - they will want to settle beforehand, I'm sure. As long as you're comfortable explaining your calculations to the judge, then I think the judge would see anything wrong in awarding the same figures you've come to.

 

In short, don't be put off by Barclays umming & ahhhing - it might take you a little longer to get your money, but patience is a virtue (so they say)

 

HTH

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[gjindancer]

Thanks Michael! Thanks for the comprehensive answer! I think I have all I need to explain to a judge now so I'm happy with that

 

Thanks to Bill-K too for the effort he's put in with my spreadsheet and everyone else who's given me the moral support!

 

If I don't engage Barclays in anymore telephone discussions, what should I expect to happen before this coming friday? If they send an offer through the post and its without the interest on penalties am I going to have to call them?

 

I've seen threads with offers being updated over telephone and email - that seems so far away from the conversation I've had with Paul Quinn last week - fingers crossed I suppose!!

 

Dan

[mcuth]

Thanks Michael! Thanks for the comprehensive answer! I think I have all I need to explain to a judge now so I'm happy with that

 

You're welcome

 

If I don't engage Barclays in anymore telephone discussions, what should I expect to happen before this coming friday? If they send an offer through the post and its without the interest on penalties am I going to have to call them?

 

I've seen threads with offers being updated over telephone and email - that seems so far away from the conversation I've had with Paul Quinn last week - fingers crossed I suppose!!

 

I should just stick to your guns - perhaps it might be worth a final call to Paul Quinn on Monday to explain your position on the interest dispute. I should explain to him that you'll not entertain anything less than full settlement (including statutory 8% calculated to settlement date) before Friday, and that it should be in writing to arrive by Thursday's post, or you'll see them at the hearing

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[crashbandicoot]

gjindancer, I just wanted to add here that Barclays called me about six times before they finally settled on a Friday, when I was due in court the following Tuesday. In their initial calls they were very adamant that they WOULD NOT pay me the full amount, that their partial offer was very reasonable, blah blah, that I would lose in court etc. etc.

 

I listened politely, and simply said that we can dance around legalities and issues all we like in court, I don't want to discuss all this over a phone; We'll let the judge decide; Please only call me if you are willing to settle in full etc.

 

They soon got the message, because on the final call, when he made me yet another partial offer, I said 'You are wasting my time. My position is perfectly clear. Unless you are making the full offer, I will see you in court.' He (Anthony Lombardi) conceded and asked me what figure would I settle at? I gave him all the figures up-to-date (not forgetting court fee, AQ fee, Interest, daily interest) and he settled there and then.

 

Basically what I'm trying to say is that you have to play them at their game. They will keep calling you to get you nervous, and make you fold. You have to stick to your guns, don't bother getting into any discussions and make them understand that you will leave all discussions for court and the judge. The minute they realise you're not going to give in...they will fold themselves

 

HTHs

[LadyMaria]

My case is not until 13th April and I am reading these threads with great interest. Stick to your guns, I will most certainly be taking the last piece of advice, be polite but adamant, after this is our money!!

[gjindancer]

I've now had a letter from Barclays Legal offering me £4000, ignoring court costs and interest on penalties - and its from Paul Quinn. My court case is this friday - If I write back it will take to long - if I phone I'll be taking to Paul Quinn and he'll be asking me for the spreadsheet and contesting my interest again!!

 

They are running out of time faster than I'd care.. Eek! I suppose I have to put my poker face on..

 

Dan

[LadyMaria]

Dan, if this was me, and I am no expert, I would phone him today, now and state you want all the costs, interest etc. I would remind him he has already had the schedule of charges and can there for work it out from there, the formula for working out the interest is =(C13*0.00022)*E13 on an excel spreadsheet, I would tell him I do not need to know how this works, I just use excel as do many people and the formula was given by CAG. Having read your postings, you stated as far back as Nov 06 that you had concerns understanding the spreadsheet and I believe that Mr Quin has read the threads and it picking on your weakness, as he sees it. Is the £4000 correct without the extra's if it is then just keep going with the interest and court charges.

Well done so far

Maria

[Donel261]

[email protected]

 

Just a guess but everyone I have dealt with have been contactable by email in this format.

[LadyMaria]

Dan, if this was me, and I am no expert, I would phone him today, now and state you want all the costs, interest etc. I would remind him he has already had the schedule of charges and can there for work it out from there, the formula for working out the interest is =(C13*0.00022)*E13 on an excel spreadsheet, I would tell him I do not need to know how this works, I just use excel as do many people and the formula was given by CAG. Having read your postings, you stated as far back as Nov 06 that you had concerns understanding the spreadsheet and I believe that Mr Quin has read the threads and it picking on your weakness, as he sees it. Is the £4000 correct without the extra's if it is then just keep going with the interest and court charges.

Well done so far

Maria

 

Dan, sorry I kept hitting the wrong key on my laptop which kept submitting my reply, so it may have appeared disjointed, let us know if you phone him.

[LEECHTHEBREACH]

Well said Maria........Dan, phone him up and stick to your guns,simple. Say,If you do not pay the full amount I will see you in court. Do not get dragged into explaining the spreadshheets.

He will capitulate I would put my house on it!!!!

[mcuth]

I've now had a letter from Barclays Legal offering me £4000, ignoring court costs and interest on penalties - and its from Paul Quinn.

 

Then that's not a full settlement of your claim

 

My court case is this friday - If I write back it will take to long - if I phone I'll be taking to Paul Quinn and he'll be asking me for the spreadsheet and contesting my interest again!!

Either write back (special delivery so he gets it tomorrow) or call him to reject it and tell him that you want the full amount of charges, overdraft interest, court costs & 8% interest to date and (if necessary) explain the interest calculations as per my previous post - otherwise you'll see them in court on Friday

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[gjindancer]

I emailed him the following:

 

Hi Paul, I have received a letter from you dated 19th of March offering £4000 as a full and final settlement for my claim - however I respectfully decline this offer and do not accept that it represents the full amount owed.

 

As outlined in my Particulars of Claim, the penalty charges and interest taken from me, along with the interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act amounts to £4653.18;

However with courts costs of £220 and a daily interest on s69 since I made the claim of £82 the full total of my claim is: £4955.18

 

This claim will continue until payment is made in full.

 

As you requested I have attached the spreadsheet I used to work out interest on penalties, which is freely available at www.consumeractiongroup.org, and below I have included an explanation of how the calculations are made. I am providing this information in good will and I am not prepared to discuss the details of my interest on penalties any further unless in a court of law.

 

Alternatively, should you wish to settle my claim in full, then please forward the balance of the claim £4955.18 without further conditions and I will inform the court that the claim is settled.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Mr gjindancer

 

 

An explanation of the calculations used on the Complex Bank Charges Spreadsheet:

"You have to enter the estimated average overdrawn balance on the spreadsheet first of all, then you can enter any amount of interest-free overdraft that you are allowed, and the spreadsheet subtracts that from the average O/D balance. This gives the estimated average amount of overdraft that you will have been charged overdraft interest on for that month. Call this amount "O."

The accumulated total of any penalty charges made so far is a part of this overdrawn amount, so we'll call this "P."

The spreadsheet divides O by P, to give the apportionment ratio "R."

The total overdraft interest charged for that month we will call "I" - and this is entered on the sheet by us.

The apportioned amount of that interest - "A" (which is the part you are claiming) is then calculated by the spreadsheet. It does this by dividing the total interest "I" by the apportionment ratio "R."

[LadyMaria]

Brilliant.

[LEECHTHEBREACH]

Can you imagine him in his office. Hey Jo can you have a look at this for me I have,nt a clue what she is talking about. Nah nor me phone the accountant !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bill-k]

8)

 

[Fullyskinted]

Weird. I had a call today from Charlie Sparling at their legal Dept offering full and final settlement and wanted confirmed figures.

I gave him a 'near as damnit' figure over the phone as I was not at my desk and was greeted by an email when I got home offering me the amount I had given him over the phone as the final figure!

 

Im gonna take it. It covers everything

 

Just need to figure out how to ammend his letter as it contains the usual confindentiality bit which obviously I wont accept

[gjindancer]

Fullyskinted, when was your court case due?

[crashbandicoot]

Nice one fully skinted, well done! I'd cross out the terms bit on their letter - the confidentiality line etc, then sign it and send it back.

 

'Or you can send your own acceptance letter saying thanks for the offer of xxxx which I accept without any terms attached' or something to that effect