Iran Nuclear Deal agreed

[tobyjugg2]

Well, a deal is there

but the Israelis and senior members of a potential next US government say they will do all they can to cancel it.

 

[unclebulgaria67]

Well, a deal is there

but the Israelis and senior members of a potential next US government say they will do all they can to cancel it.

 

 

The Earth is due to be hit by an asteroid next week !

 

Wish they would think beyond petty arguments and just try to get along. They don't have to like each other. I make the asteroid comment to make the point that it would take an Earth ending event for some people to put to one side their hatred and to work together for the good of the world.

[tobyjugg2]

I'm nothing short of utterly astonished that a deal has been done, even if it does get scuppered, given the forces aligned against it particularly

The Israelis (massive political influence in the US)

The oil lobby (Iran has massive stocks of oil it can release to the market as well as capacity - aka price and profits crash for the others)

 

Amazing

(and I am completely in favour until its demonstrated differently)

[obiter dictum]

Iran has as much right to nuclear power as any other country. The Israeli Government are bully's.

 

I hope this agreement will finally bring all sides together to bring peace to the middle east. If Iran can do it, so can Syria etc

[tobyjugg2]

Iran has as much right to nuclear power as any other country. The Israeli Government are bully's.

 

I hope this agreement will finally bring all sides together to bring peace to the middle east. If Iran can do it, so can Syria etc

 

It isn't that simple, and can't be with the potential for nuclear weapons.

Do we really want a dozen North Korea's?

 

But Iran has shown willing, as has Obama's administration, and an Iran which is invested in the rest of the World rather than isolated from all except rogue states has got to be better for everyone (except the rogue states).

I also think that a powerful state which has some different drivers as part of the world group adds a potentially very good dynamic.

 

The politics are complex beyond belief

Israel, the Saudies, the issue with Iraq when the Yanks leave, let alone the lesser politics of IS and remnants of potential government in the many states of the middle east/north Africa.

 

It could be that Iran extends its influence as the Israelis and Saudis claim, but I can't see that as being worse than the existing situation for the majority of the worlds populace or governments (particular 'interests' could lose out though).

[Conniff]

Iran is the main supplier of the worlds terrorist and Isis. Once sanctions are lifted, the main problem country in this world Russia, will flood weapons in so that Iran can supply even more.

 

It's not Israel who are the bullies, it's the country that threatened to 'wipe them off the face of the planet' who are the bullies, and not to be trusted.

[tobyjugg2]

Iran is the main supplier of the worlds terrorist and Isis. Once sanctions are lifted, the main problem country in this world Russia, will flood weapons in so that Iran can supply even more.

I believe you will find that Russia and America (BOTH) are the main suppliers of weapons to all sorts of people, many of whom would be called terrorists.

 

It's not Israel who are the bullies, it's the country that threatened to 'wipe them off the face of the planet' who are the bullies, and not to be trusted.

 

Israel is hardly in any position to take any moral high ground having bombed civilians indiscriminately, repeatedly.

I think most of the world considers Israel also as a rogue state nowadays even if it isn't said in public.

 

Any sympathy they might have garnered is long since used up, burnt and buried under rubble. They have become the worst of that which they fight.

[obiter dictum]

Conniff, there you go again with inaccuracies,

 

That comment as to wiping off the face of the earth was made by the Iranian president. He said it if ISRAEL ever ATTACKED Iran he would wipe them off the face of the earth.

[unclebulgaria67]

I believe you will find that Russia and America (BOTH) are the main suppliers of weapons to all sorts of people, many of whom would be called terrorists.

 

 

 

Israel is hardly in any position to take any moral high ground having bombed civilians indiscriminately, repeatedly.

I think most of the world considers Israel also as a rogue state nowadays even if it isn't said in public.

 

Any sympathy they might have garnered is long since used up, burnt and buried under rubble. They have become the worst of that which they fight.

 

Agree. Iran are not supporters of ISIS. I think they are getting help from some in Saudi Arabia and also other countries. Also ISIS raided several Banks and took tens of millions from them. Most of the weapons came from raids on Iraqi and Syrian military bases.

 

As for Israel they went too far the last time in Gaza,when dealing with the tunnels. But cannot be easy living in a region, where they have neighbours who hate them.

[tobyjugg2]

Agree. Iran are not supporters of ISIS. I think they are getting help from some in Saudi Arabia and also other countries. Also ISIS raided several Banks and took tens of millions from them. Most of the weapons came from raids on Iraqi and Syrian military bases.

 

Absolutely unclebulgaria - Saudis funding ISIS. Iran has been FIGHTING ISIS

and most of ISIS' significant weapons are US supplied which have 'fallen' into the hands of ISIS from who the yanks gave/sold/horsetraded them to.

[obiter dictum]

Most of the weapons that the Isis jihadists have originally came from libya when all the armouries were looted.

 

It needs to be remembered Libya was destabilized by the west to allow these munitions to be stolen in the first place . Cause and effect, or causality

[tobyjugg2]

Most of the weapons that the Isis jihadists have originally came from libya when all the armouries were looted.

 

It needs to be remembered Libya was destabilized by the west to allow these munitions to be stolen in the first place . Cause and effect, or causality

 

Libya was destabilised by the west because they intended to re-introduce a gold (funded by oil) banking standard to compete with the Wests debt based smoke and mirrors system.

I think that is one of the conspiracy buffs few actual truisms.

 

(and just to show I'm not anti intervention - I believe the assault and complete defeat of Saddam Hussain was not only justified, but absolutely necessary, although I am so very proud of Britain deciding against full blown intervention in Syria)

[Conniff]

Iran are supporters of anyone who is anti-western.

[tobyjugg2]

Iran are supporters of anyone who is anti-western.

 

Iran isn't the one lacking all credibility here at the moment conniff.

[Conniff]

Can you honestly give credibility to a country that stones to death a person that commits adultery? Although a judge may now sentence them to hanging instead if there are any outside observers present.

 

Iran punishment of man for acid attack by gouging out his eye condemned as "unspeakably cruel" by Amnesty.

 

And uncountable other instances.

 

I cannot and never will have any respect for them and their population control. Even Saddam Hussein chemical weapon attack on a town was nothing in comparison to what Iran is still doing.

[obiter dictum]

Saudi Arabia stones to death people who commit adultery. They are also one of the greatest customers of the UK arms trade. And do it with impunity.

 

Saudi Arabia has the greatest human rights violations ever, but because of OPEC, the world is silent

[tobyjugg2]

Can you honestly give credibility to a country that stones to death a person that commits adultery? Although a judge may now sentence them to hanging instead if there are any outside observers present.

 

Iran punishment of man for acid attack by gouging out his eye condemned as "unspeakably cruel" by Amnesty.

 

And uncountable other instances.

 

I cannot and never will have any respect for them and their population control. Even Saddam Hussein chemical weapon attack on a town was nothing in comparison to what Iran is still doing.

 

and they will NEVER change whilst isolated, neither will change be forced upon them - the whole situation in the middle east and Africa ... and what we are discussing here proves that.

 

Horrors exist in all countries including our own.

[MrHat]

Conniff, there you go again with inaccuracies,

 

That comment as to wiping off the face of the earth was made by the Iranian president. He said it if ISRAEL ever ATTACKED Iran he would wipe them off the face of the earth.

 

Why would Israel want to attack Iran? And how would you go about 'wiping a country off the earth"? Oh,hang on...who are those people in mass crowds chanting "death to israel!" as the nuclear deal progressed?

[tobyjugg2]

Why would Israel want to attack Iran? And how would you go about 'wiping a country off the earth"? Oh,hang on...who are those people in mass crowds chanting "death to israel!" as the nuclear deal progressed?

 

Lets put this in perspective,

While they shout their anger, Who was it who was murdering civilians and destroying an entire City with modern weapons, tanks, jets and missiles? - against a defending force of a few archaic RPG's and some ak47's

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28439404

Between 8 July and 27 August, more than 2,100 Palestinians were killed in the Gaza Strip,

 

along with 66 Israeli soldiers and seven civilians in Israel.

 

The UN says the vast majority of Palestinian deaths are civilian. But figures from previous operations over the past six years in the densely populated Gaza Strip show it is not the first time civilians have paid a heavy price.

[obiter dictum]

America is number one for munitions exports to Israel

[MrHat]

Lets put this in perspective,

While they shout their anger, Who was it who was murdering civilians and destroying an entire City with modern weapons, tanks, jets and missiles? - against a defending force of a few archaic RPG's and some ak47's

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28439404

Between 8 July and 27 August, more than 2,100 Palestinians were killed in the Gaza Strip,

 

along with 66 Israeli soldiers and seven civilians in Israel.

 

The UN says the vast majority of Palestinian deaths are civilian. But figures from previous operations over the past six years in the densely populated Gaza Strip show it is not the first time civilians have paid a heavy price.

 

Any chance you'll answer my questions?

[tobyjugg2]

Can you honestly give credibility to a country that stones to death a person that commits adultery? Although a judge may now sentence them to hanging instead if there are any outside observers present.

At least as much credibility as I could give to a government that knowingly implements policies which they know WILL throw more children into poverty, and further try to redefine the definitions of child poverty in a puerile attempt to mask the figures showing what a horrendous impact it has had driving more children into poverty..

 

There are horrors in all countries - including our own.

I think ours is worse. Our children have no choices, and have done nothing wrong. and we are in a far better position to do something different.

Edited July 15, 2015 by tobyjugg2
added last line

[tobyjugg2]

Any chance you'll answer my questions?

 

Are you not aware of operation Opera?

Yugoslavia, Pompeii.

Ask a sensible question.

 

Now you answer mine. It should be simple as the answer is with the question.

[MrHat]

Are you not aware of operation Opera?

Yugoslavia, Pompeii.

Ask a sensible question.

 

Now you answer mine. It should be simple as the answer is with the question.

 

I assume this is a "no" to answering my questions then. I now understand you only want to preach without being challenged. Futile to continue.

[tobyjugg2]

I was tempted to leave it at that, but I have answered your questions, stupid as they seemed to be to me.

 

Why would Israel want to attack Iran?

 

Look up operation Opera - where Israel sneak bombed Iran

 

And how would you go about 'wiping a country off the earth"?

 

Look up Yugoslavia and Pompeii - neither of which exist any longer. One natural causes, one political.

Or Aragon, or even consider when Israel has and hasn't existed in history?

 

Oh,hang on...who are those people in mass crowds chanting "death to israel!" as the nuclear deal progressed?

Same as the minority of radical protesters in every country - including ours

 

 

Now who are those people who bombed and shelled an entire city killing, maiming and blinding thousands of civilians men, women and children, destroying hospitals and schools and thousands of homes, and all that in just one of many similar events?