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Cohen CCJ on santander A/C (phantom payment that makes it not SB'd?}


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Hi Everyone, I'm new here, and looking for some help if I may.

 

Many years ago, I had lots of financial difficulties and have spent the last 10 years trying to put everything in order.

 

Various creditors were paid, some have become statute barred. Which leads onto now.

 

I was under the impression that I was finally debt free, until this weekend when I checked my Credit File with Experian, and found that on the 3rd July, a CCJ was registered against me from Howard Cohen & Co, chasing an old joint current account overdraft of £1811.23.

 

I haven't had any dealings with this debt since 2008 I would say, have never been contacted for it, and moved from the address around 2007 I think.

 

On my credit file, the default date was 05/11/2008, and has since dissapeared. However, after calling Howard Cohen & Co this morning, they have informed me that a payment was paid into the account on 07/11/2009, meaning it is within 6 years and not stature barred.

 

I don't recall making any payments and have requested proof of this. They told me they would need to request this from Santander, and would let me know in due course. In the meantime, the account is on hold with them.

 

The thing is though, it is all well and good that the account is on hold with them, but if it turns out the debt is enforceable, and I don't pay it in full before the 3rd August, I will have the CCJ on there for 6 years. This isn't something I can let happen as we are trying to put ourselves in the best possible financial shape for a mortgage.

 

I called Santander myself, and asked if they had any record of this payment, and was initially told no, they do not. However he then asked their collections department if they could see the payment and was told that yes, they can!

 

I asked by what method was the payment made, and by whom, and was told that they do not have this information. I was told to go into a branch and request a statement from that time period to see the payment that way. So off I went to a branch this morning and on their system, there is no activity whatsoever after 12/11/2008, where it just says "account closed contact collections".

 

The branch assistant then called the collections team from the branch, and put them over to me. I was told that they can see the payment, but it just says that it has come from a 'Debt Collection Company'.

 

I then did a little more investigating and have been told that they can see that the debt was with DMS Debt Managers, and then Credit Security, but no other info. They have told me they would see if their back office has any more details but it would be extremely unlikely.

 

So I called Howard Cohen & Co again, and explained that there is no evidence of the payment, and as such the default date remains and the debt is statute barred. I have also scanned in and sent them the statement I was given showing no activity after 12/11/2008.

 

My questions right now are;

 

1. If they can't see who exactly made the payment on 07/11/2009, does it still count?

 

2. If they can see it's a Debt Management company, do they still need more than just the companies name?

 

3. If Santander can provide no more evidence, again, is it unenforceable?

 

If it turns out the debt is enforceable, I will pay it before 3rd August so as to get it removed from my credit file asap. But if I am not legally obliged to pay it, I won't be.

 

Any questions to clarify anything please ask or if I need to give any more info I can do.

 

Many thanks in advance to anyone who is able to help.

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then you need to get it set aside

 

 

if the debt was sb'd at the time the claimform was issues.

 

 

I take they issues the claim to your old address and that you moved and did not inform all your creditors?

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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You could make an application to have the judgment set aside based on the fact that the account was statute barred at the time the claim was issued.

 

You could then demand the claimant to provide absolute proof that, you personally, made the payment they say is on the statement.

 

If the default fell off your records, then I would be suspicious that a payment was made because, the payment would have rectified the default!!

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Hi and thanks for the fast replies.

 

To clarify, Santander are saying they can see the payment, but can only see it was made by a 'Debt Collection Agency'. No specifics here. What is it that Howard Cohen & Co would need from Santander which would be sufficient proof?

 

I am thinking that I was in a Debt Management plan, and that's how the payment was made, but I can't remember who I was with, or how any distribution was made to any creditors.

 

And no, I didn't tell them I had moved. I was in relationship at the time which subsequently broke down in a rather horrible way, and this was a joint account. I thought my ex was dealing with it, my ex thought I was. Naive, young, and just a bad time in my life in all honesty!

 

So just to clarify, if the last payment towards this debt was indeed 07/11/2009, then the default date on my credit file would have changed to 07/11/2014? It definitely was 05/11/2008 on my file as I still have access to it on Experian.

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You may need to contact the debt collection agency, to get hold of the exact information, as to who paid it, method of payment, card number used etc. Santander shoukd be able to provide some details e.g payment reference number, which might help the DCA trace it.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Unclebulgaria,

 

I have asked Santander for this exact info just this morning. I've been told they will attempt to obtain this info from their back office but (and I quote) "It is very unlikely that we will have this information".

 

Without this info, is the debt unenforceable?

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do you know when the original creditor sold the delinquent account to the Debt collection Agency ?

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi and thanks for the fast replies.

 

To clarify, Santander are saying they can see the payment, but can only see it was made by a 'Debt Collection Agency'. No specifics here. What is it that Howard Cohen & Co would need from Santander which would be sufficient proof?

 

I am thinking that I was in a Debt Management plan, and that's how the payment was made, but I can't remember who I was with, or how any distribution was made to any creditors.

 

And no, I didn't tell them I had moved. I was in relationship at the time which subsequently broke down in a rather horrible way, and this was a joint account. I thought my ex was dealing with it, my ex thought I was. Naive, young, and just a bad time in my life in all honesty!

 

So just to clarify, if the last payment towards this debt was indeed 07/11/2009, then the default date on my credit file would have changed to 07/11/2014? It definitely was 05/11/2008 on my file as I still have access to it on Experian.

 

It is not the date on the credit file that is relevant. It is the date of the actual last payment by you or anyone joint on the account. Unles you are in Scotland, it would 6 years from the last payment towards the debt. The account was already in default, before you started making some payment towards the debt.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Unclebulgaria,

 

I have asked Santander for this exact info just this morning. I've been told they will attempt to obtain this info from their back office but (and I quote) "It is very unlikely that we will have this information".

 

Without this info, is the debt unenforceable?

 

 

It has been enforced. Up to you to evidence set aside reason of statute barred at the time court claim was issued.

We could do with some help from you.

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Unclebulgaria,

 

I have been informed that there was £20 a month going towards the debt, that ended on 07/11/2009. No payments after this date. This would mean that the 6 years runs from 07/11/2009, however I am asking if simply a statement showing 'Debt Collection' as payment method is sufficient for Cohen to have the CCJ enforced?

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It has been enforced. Up to you to evidence set aside reason of statute barred at the time court claim was issued.

 

I realise this, I am now asking if very vague evidence of payment method is enough for them to use against my application to set aside?

 

Many thanks

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do you know when the original creditor sold the delinquent account to the Debt collection Agency ?

 

I wasn't given specific dates by Santander, but was told that around this time the debt was sold to Debt Managers, and then to Credit Security. It has now been with Cohen since October 2014. To the best of my knowledge.

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urm..multiple payments of £20

this is not looking good.

 

 

one maybe but lots ..no way. that's not the way dca's do it on this phantom payments game.

 

 

sadly looks like you might be snookered with no reason for a set aside.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Unclebulgaria,

 

I have been informed that there was £20 a month going towards the debt, that ended on 07/11/2009. No payments after this date. This would mean that the 6 years runs from 07/11/2009, however I am asking if simply a statement showing 'Debt Collection' as payment method is sufficient for Cohen to have the CCJ enforced?

 

Yes that would be enough. Now the CCJ exists you would have to evidence you did not make the payments.

If you don't want the CCJ on record, you would have to settle in full before the 30 days the court allowed. If it is on your credit record already, check the actual date of judgement.

We could do with some help from you.

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urm..multiple payments of £20

this is not looking good.

 

 

one maybe but lots ..no way. that's not the way dca's do it on this phantom payments game.

 

 

sadly looks like you might be snookered with no reason for a set aside.

 

 

dx

 

 

I'm not saying that it is definitely a phantom payment. I don't recall paying money in but certainly not saying I didn't. Although I have no recollection of which debt management service I used.

 

My query at the moment is what evidence is needed to prove who actually did make thest payments and if it is not available, can it then be set aside? As Santander don't seem to be able to provide any?

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Yes that would be enough. Now the CCJ exists you would have to evidence you did not make the payments.

If you don't want the CCJ on record, you would have to settle in full before the 30 days the court allowed. If it is on your credit record already, check the actual date of judgement.

 

Date on my credit file says 3/07/2015. I intend to pay in full before the end of the month if it turns out the debt is enforceable.

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joint account..urm.. so could have been either of you?

 

 

satan bank don't have to prove anything

 

 

its the claimant that will have to do that

and that's a big gamble IMHO

 

 

so you had a debt management company working for you?

 

 

debt managers ltd are arrow global in sheeps clothing

and they have numerous other names too.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites
I'm not saying that it is definitely a phantom payment. I don't recall paying money in but certainly not saying I didn't. Although I have no recollection of which debt management service I used.

 

My query at the moment is what evidence is needed to prove who actually did make thest payments and if it is not available, can it then be set aside? As Santander don't seem to be able to provide any?

 

As you know, the courts work on balance of probability. Getting a set aside based on no evidence of you making the payments is very unlikely. Even if you made a statement to the court that you have no record of making payment, they would want evidence you did not make them e.g your own bank statements showing no payments or creditors data showing no payment from you.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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Date on my credit file says 3/07/2015. I intend to pay in full before the end of the month if it turns out the debt is enforceable.

 

But was the actual court hearing at the start of June ? July is when it was officially recorded, as it was not paid. You should check with the courts.

We could do with some help from you.

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Joint account yes but absolute certainty no money paid in from other account holder. I'd be very surprised if she even has knowledge of the CCJ, or indeed that the debt was never paid as we left our relationship on very bad terms.

 

I will check with the courts again now as to when it needs to be paid.

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Just realised the time, will have to call court tomorrow.

 

Will Cohen not know the date of the hearing?

 

They may know the date of judgement, which would have been entered in default, as you did not know of the court claim to request a hearing.

We could do with some help from you.

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Yes they did. I've spoken again to Cohen (Robinson Way to be exact), and they have informed me that I have 30 calender days from 03/07/2015 to pay in full in order to get the CCJ removed.

 

I asked again about that last payment. I was told by them that they do not need to provide any evidence at all as to who made the payment, it just being there is enough for the judgement to stand. I did quiz him a little and said that it could have been anybody that paid it in, to which he said, it doesn't matter, and we don't need to say who it was, the court will just be satisfied with what they have.

 

With the above being the case, I feel I have no choice but to pay it.

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Dunno about judgement will stand.

They are quite correct they did not need any payment to get the judgement. Course not it was done by default! Nothing is checked. Not even if it was sb,d

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thread tidied and irrelevant posts removed.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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